Confirmed with Link: Avs acquire S. Girard, S. Bowers, V. Kamenev, A. Hammond, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for M. Duchene

[Hinterland]

Yeah, Grigo was a soft finesse type of player with great hands around the net. Kamenev is grittier, plays a good two-way game, and his offense comes largely from playmaking over scoring. Would love to see him with Yak, Compher, or Ghetto to take advantage of their shooting.

Kamenev is mainly a playmaker but a pretty good sniper, too. His numbers also reflect that. For example he had 22 goals in 73 games with Milwaukee last season or scored five goals at the WJC in 2016. Only Matthews and Laine had more goals.

Remains to be seen how his game translates to the NHL but since there's literally nothing he can't do, Kamenev is a very excititing prospect. At least for me. Liked and watched him way before the trade.

I agree with you regarding Yakupov and Andrighetto. Would be a great line I think. They also did some line rushes together last week. Doubt Bednar puts in Yakupov though

 

[agentblack]

cool.

 

[McMetal]

I agree with you regarding Yakupov and Andrighetto. Would be a great line I think. They also did some line rushes together last week. Doubt Bednar puts in Yakupov though

True, I could get behind a line with Andrighetto, Kamenev, and Compher. Compher and Kamenev are responsible defensively, and Kamenev can set up those two up and maybe get them scoring again.

 

[tigervixxxen]

So is this Kamenev like fools gold i.e. Grigs or is there something to see here?

The difference this isn't a second chance fresh start sort of reason why we have Kamenev. He was a legit prospect and asset from Nashville. He's 21 years old and has like 150 AHL games under his belt because he came over to play at 19. Nashville didn't have room for him at the NHL level and the Avs wanted a NHL ready forward in the trade. So that's what he is, a NHL ready forward prospect. Where he goes from here we'll see.

 

[Hinterland]

The difference this isn't a second chance fresh start sort of reason why we have Kamenev. He was a legit prospect and asset from Nashville. He's 21 years old and has like 150 AHL games under his belt because he came over to play at 19. Nashville didn't have room for him at the NHL level and the Avs wanted a NHL ready forward in the trade. So that's what he is, a NHL ready forward prospect. Where he goes from here we'll see.

They clearly disliked him though or they wouldn't have signed Bonino. Unless maybe it was just Laviolette and his burning love for vets. If he gets to pick between two players, he's always gonna go for the older one. I mean he played Gaudreau over Kamenev during the playoffs. Tells you pretty much everything you need to know.

Bonino is solid, fair and obviously part of a cup winning team in Pittsburgh but he's not exactly a difference maker. A healthy Kamenev would have been likely to play a similar season I guess. I got him in Fantasy convinced he'd make the team.

 

[klozge]

Kamenev is mainly a playmaker but a pretty good sniper, too. His numbers also reflect that. For example he had 22 goals in 73 games with Milwaukee last season or scored five goals at the WJC in 2016. Only Matthews and Laine had more goals.

Remains to be seen how his game translates to the NHL but since there's literally nothing he can't do, Kamenev is a very excititing prospect. At least for me. Liked and watched him way before the trade.

I agree with you regarding Yakupov and Andrighetto. Would be a great line I think. They also did some line rushes together last week. Doubt Bednar puts in Yakupov though

Hopefully not.

 

[Pokecheque]

They clearly disliked him though or they wouldn't have signed Bonino. Unless maybe it was just Laviolette and his burning love for vets. If he gets to pick between two players, he's always gonna go for the older one. I mean he played Gaudreau over Kamenev during the playoffs. Tells you pretty much everything you need to know.

Bonino is solid, fair and obviously part of a cup winning team in Pittsburgh but he's not exactly a difference maker. A healthy Kamenev would have been likely to play a similar season I guess. I got him in Fantasy convinced he'd make the team.

Come on...Bonino was a HUGE difference-maker for the Pens in that first Cup run. That HBK line was ridiculous during that run, made it so the opposition had no way to hold Pittsburgh in check. Just because he wasn't quite as effective in the 2nd Cup run due to injury and hasn't been nearly as good a fit in Nashville doesn't mean he wasn't an impact player for the Pens.

Also, I don't think signing a guy fresh off 2 Cup wins in a row is necessarily them "disliking" a prospect, nor do I think them choosing a grinder who may or may not be better in a depth role than Kamenev was at the time a diss either. They just happen to have a LOT of good prospects and could afford to part with him and Girard.

 

[tigervixxxen]

They clearly disliked him though or they wouldn't have signed Bonino. Unless maybe it was just Laviolette and his burning love for vets. If he gets to pick between two players, he's always gonna go for the older one. I mean he played Gaudreau over Kamenev during the playoffs. Tells you pretty much everything you need to know.

Bonino is solid, fair and obviously part of a cup winning team in Pittsburgh but he's not exactly a difference maker. A healthy Kamenev would have been likely to play a similar season I guess. I got him in Fantasy convinced he'd make the team.

The point is he's not a reclaimation project like Grigo and Yak are.

 

[Hinterland]

Come on...Bonino was a HUGE difference-maker for the Pens in that first Cup run. That HBK line was ridiculous during that run, made it so the opposition had no way to hold Pittsburgh in check. Just because he wasn't quite as effective in the 2nd Cup run due to injury and hasn't been nearly as good a fit in Nashville doesn't mean he wasn't an impact player for the Pens.

Also, I don't think signing a guy fresh off 2 Cup wins in a row is necessarily them "disliking" a prospect, nor do I think them choosing a grinder who may or may not be better in a depth role than Kamenev was at the time a diss either. They just happen to have a LOT of good prospects and could afford to part with him and Girard.

I'm not a fan. With the exceptions of a few stretches he's been average pretty much all career long. Just a soft and slow Center who's useful when he's hot and rather garbage when he's not. He's been pretty human so far this season. Well, at least he was still useful on the dot and on the PK.

 

[Pokecheque]

I'm not a fan. With the exceptions of a few stretches he's been average pretty much all career long. Just a soft and slow Center who's useful when he's hot and rather garbage when he's not. He's been pretty human so far this season. Well, at least he was still useful on the dot and on the PK.

That's fine, but the point is I think you could understand why Nashville opted to sign him rather than pin their hopes for a 2nd/3rd line center on Kamenev. In the end Bonino didn't work there either so they went out and got Turris.

And maybe he's all the things you say he is--I haven't seen him play much so I won't argue--but whatever the case he worked for Pittsburgh. I'd certainly make the swap of Brandon Sutter for him any day.

 

[Hinterland]

That's fine, but the point is I think you could understand why Nashville opted to sign him rather than pin their hopes for a 2nd/3rd line center on Kamenev. In the end Bonino didn't work there either so they went out and got Turris.

And maybe he's all the things you say he is--I haven't seen him play much so I won't argue--but whatever the case he worked for Pittsburgh. I'd certainly make the swap of Brandon Sutter for him any day.

Don't know. I prefer Sutter but I guess it's gonna be tough to win that argument because of Bonino's two cups
It's just that Sutter is tougher, more dynamic and more versatile. May not have Bonino's playmaking skills and hands but still matches his numbers. He's just a bit unlucky in my view. Canucks aren't exactly a great team and he also got badly injured soon after the trade.

 

[klozge]

This season is going to get really interesting. Adding him could turn our bottom 6* from a weakness into a strength.

Edit: *or middle 6. Depends on how you want to look at it.

 

[Balthazar]

 

[Balthazar]

Went to the Sens board and it seems like they like Matt now. Few quotes:

Meanwhile Kyle Turris will probably barely crack the 40 point mark this season. Passing on his 6x6 contract not looking like such a huge mistake after all.

He wasn't even willing to sign with us for six years - his agent was insisting on seven or eight. He only agreed to six with the Preds. I agree that we dodged a bullet there - Duchene is now looking like the elite player we thought we were getting...

Duchene looking like a poor man's Crosby the more I watch him.

Very nice

 

[Foppa2118]

Went to the Sens board and it seems like they like Matt now. Few quotes:

Unfortuantely, they probably think his slump was an aberration, or a result of getting acclimated to Ottawa. We know he goes into one or two of those a year. Opinions will probably tun negative when he has one during a losing season next year. Dorion better hope he trades him before that happens.

 

[cgf]

TBF his post-NYE and post-trade slumps were both longer than his typical slumps. If they are competitive on a nightly basis with all of that youth coming in & the goaltending getting back on track, then I think they'll survive a typical Duchene slump. He's a different caliber C than anyone they've had since Spezza; slumps n all.

 

[Foppa2118]

TBF his post-NYE and post-trade slumps were both longer than his typical slumps. If they are competitive on a nightly basis with all of that youth coming in & the goaltending getting back on track, then I think they'll survive a typical Duchene slump. He's a different caliber C than anyone they've had since Spezza; slumps n all.

Longer than his typical ones, but not worse than he's had before with the Avs. His usual slumps are around 10 games, but he's had a couple that were worse than the one this year.

This year his slump was basically 22 games where he had five points. His slump for the Avs last year was 21 games, and he had 1 point. That's in addition to a 10 game slump where he had 2 points earlier in the season. In 2011-12 he had 4 points in the final 21 games.

The yearly slumps are around 10 games, and he'll have at least one or two in a season. When he really gets in a funk, they extend to 20 games like we've seen three times now.

 

[cgf]

2011-2012 was his third year where he f***ed up his knee, right?

I think Sens fans will be fine with a ~10 game slump or two if they are more competitive next year with a lot of kids in the lineup. It's if the team is garbage all year and Matt hits another ~20 game slump where I can see them turning on him.

 

[PAZ]

It's pretty hard to turn on Matty because there's very few games where he actually is coasting.

I think they might see him in the light of an asset to sell, but not turn on him to the extent of him being a shitty player.

 

[agentblack]

They clearly disliked him though or they wouldn't have signed Bonino. Unless maybe it was just Laviolette and his burning love for vets. If he gets to pick between two players, he's always gonna go for the older one. I mean he played Gaudreau over Kamenev during the playoffs. Tells you pretty much everything you need to know.

Bonino is solid, fair and obviously part of a cup winning team in Pittsburgh but he's not exactly a difference maker. A healthy Kamenev would have been likely to play a similar season I guess. I got him in Fantasy convinced he'd make the team.

Meh i dont see that as an indictment of Kam, not saying im sold on anything in the Kam department but Poile is chasing a cup so i get it if he wanted to go with a guy that literally won b2b over a super green rookie especially if he can afford to, which he could, curse his eyes.

 

[Avs44]

Went to the Sens board and it seems like they like Matt now. Few quotes:

Interesting point about Turris. What's going on there? He was lighting it up when he first arrived in Nashville - just a 46 point pace over 82 games on that club?

 

[Foppa2118]

2011-2012 was his third year where he ****ed up his knee, right?

I think Sens fans will be fine with a ~10 game slump or two if they are more competitive next year with a lot of kids in the lineup. It's if the team is garbage all year and Matt hits another ~20 game slump where I can see them turning on him.

True, but that's two 20 game slumps in two years during losing seasons. No knee issues that we know of during that time.

I was just talking points as well. The goal slumps are what make it look bad to fans, and they’re more prevalent. The monkey off the back celebrations don’t signal they’re over either unfortunately.

2016-17 he went 6 games without a goal. Then scored one. Then went another six games without a goal. Then scored two in a game. Then went 13 games without a goal. Then scored one. Then went 11 games without a goal. Then scored one. Then went another 9 games without a goal.

2015-16 he had a couple 6 game goal droughts, not too bad.

2014-15 he went eight games without a goal. Then put up four in five games. Then went 13 games without a goal. Then scored one. Then went 9 games without a goal.

2013-14 he had an eight game drought early in the season. Then later he had a 13 game goal drought. Then scored one goal. Then went 9 games without another. Then later had another small 6 game drought at the end of the year.

2012-13 he had two small slumps. A six game, and seven game drought. Not too bad.

2011-12 he had one goal in 21 games, but like you say he had a knee injury as well.


He's just very streaky, and inconsistent. That's not a big problem if he's insulated behind other players, that are expected to be the go to players for a team. The problem is that on the Avs, and now the Sens, he's expected to be a leader offensively. That's hard to do if you're that streaky. That's also when fan and media pressure start to build up.

 

[Hinterland]

Meh i dont see that as an indictment of Kam, not saying im sold on anything in the Kam department but Poile is chasing a cup so i get it if he wanted to go with a guy that literally won b2b over a super green rookie especially if he can afford to, which he could, curse his eyes.

While this is true and after what happened last season I get that they're saying now or never, the Preds haven't really played a prospect in years. The only one to appear more or less regularly is Fiala. They make up for it with good drafting and trading but this isn't a very promising plan. It cost them last season. They didn't have enough depth to make up for injuries. Had they played some of their prospects they would have had more options. Young players breaking out can be difference makers during the playoffs. The Preds only have Fiala and now maybe Tolvanen...however, Poile actually made a smart move. With his trade for Hartman he basically, well aware of Laviolette's problem with young players, managed to speed up the youth movement. Fisher coming back gives them even more depth but it will probably only be for one year.

Anyway, even with the signing of Bonino they still could have played Kamenev. Instead, they started the season with Bonino, Jarnkrok and Sissons behind Johansen. You'd like to think that they're not exactly the biggest hurdles for a top prospect to overcome.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't think the Preds were aware of what they had in Kamenev. Despite being reluctant about playing youngsters you would like to think that a player of Kamenev's quality and with his AHL play should at least have gotten a chance. Instead, they played plugs like McLeod, Watson and Salomaki or a bust like Aberg. It's curious to say the least

 

[CobraAcesS]

Kamenev has a total of 24 minutes in the NHL lol. For some reason I thought he had at least 5 to 10 games. He really hasn't had a legit shot at any point.

 

[Foppa2118]

I'm curious if they give Kamenev a look the rest of the year. I'm sure they want to, but these games are so important they might not want to put him in that situation. Ideally he would have gone through his NHL test earlier in the year when he broke his arm.