Auston Matthews vs Sasha Barkov

[Narow]

How many 40 goal seasons does barkov have?

How many 70 point seasons do matthews have^^?

Hahaha you could put the goals at 30 and it would be the same answer :p

 

[Leafer34]

It took barkov 5 seasons to crack 70

 

[Snowsii]

It took barkov 5 seasons to crack 70

This is why Leafs fans are forbidden to mention Matthews pace

 

[Finnipeg]

Barkov LAINEC.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Are you arguing that his on-ice shooting is high purely because of his own prevalence as a shooter? Because that might make sense if we're combining the past two seasons, but the discussion has been about this one, where, as you say, his linemates are shooting above average and he himself is shooting over 19%. Both are generally unsustainable.

If we combine the two seasons to make their on-ice percentages more normalized, Matthews ends up with a 2.45 P/60 and Barkov with a 2.22 P/60. So while Matthews is better, the difference isn't large.

Matthews is also the better goalscorer and relies less on second assists, though while last year you could argue he was unlucky there, it seems by now his game might not be conducive to getting them, and I'm not sure they hold much less value when coking from the best player on a line who generally carries the play. Still, Matthews is probably better offensively by more than I originally thought. He's not Barkov defensively, but also good there, so overall I don't see how it's not very close.

I'm saying that Matthews being a shoot-first center and the most efficient 5v5 goal scorer since the data has been tracked means his numbers are mostly divorced from his oish%. A playmaking center whose assists make up 2/3 of his 5v5 points are more subject to his teammate's finishing abilities and luck. With Matthews, the equation is inverted and his teammate's point totals fluctuate with his finishing abilities.

There hasn't really been a player like Matthews before so understanding his offensive dominance takes a little digging.

For example,

Barkov has played 84.4% of his 5v5 time on ice with Dadonov, Huberdeau & Bjugstad. They have an averaged P/60 of 2.42, 0.01 less than Barkov. When on the ice with them, Barkov has a averaged P/60 of 2.52, and they have an averaged P/60 of 2.75. So, his linemates out-score him when they play with him by about 9% and he out-scores them by <1% overall.

Matthews has played 80.6% of his 5v5 time on ice with Hyman and Nylander. They have an average P/60 of 2.13, 0.89 less than Matthews. When on the ice with them, Matthews has an average P/60 of 2.90, and they have an averaged P/60 of 2.31.
So, Matthews out-scores them when on the ice together by 26% and overall by 37%.

Matthews is clearly the more dominant presence offensively, it's just not evident in the raw totals.

 

[Snowsii]

I'm saying that Matthews being a shoot-first center and the most efficient 5v5 goal scorer since the data has been tracked means his numbers are mostly divorced from his oish%. A playmaking center whose assists make up 2/3 of his 5v5 points are more subject to his teammate's finishing abilities and luck. With Matthews, the equation is inverted and his teammate's point totals fluctuate with his finishing abilities.

There hasn't really been a player like Matthews before so understanding his offensive dominance takes a little digging.

For example,

Barkov has played 84.4% of his 5v5 time on ice with Dadonov, Huberdeau & Bjugstad. They have an averaged P/60 of 2.42, 0.01 less than Barkov. When on the ice with them, Barkov has a averaged P/60 of 2.52, and they have an averaged P/60 of 2.75. So, his linemates out-score him when they play with him by about 9% and he out-scores them by <1% overall.

Matthews has played 80.6% of his 5v5 time on ice with Hyman and Nylander. They have an average P/60 of 2.13, 0.89 less than Matthews. When on the ice with them, Matthews has an average P/60 of 2.90, and they have an averaged P/60 of 2.31.
So, Matthews out-scores them when on the ice together by 26% and overall by 37%.

Matthews is clearly the more dominant presence offensively, it's just not evident in the raw totals.

So you're saying Matthews is a better scorer, but Barkov makes his linemates better ? That's what those numbers tell us.

-Barkovs linemates p/60 rises 0.33, while Matthews linemates only get 0.18 rise..

 

[The Podium]

As of today, Barkov who is probably my 2nd favourite player in the league after Bergeron.

However, long term I take Matthews, whose offensive output is similar despite being a lot younger and less experienced. He is also strong defensively, albeit not quite there.

 

[The Kessel Run]

I was backing up Regal's post (185) by adding the extra fact that he has the highest on ice shooting % since 2009-2010. No matter how good his release is (excellent) or where his shots come from (excellent) he is going to regress in on ice shooting %. It will happen. What anyone wants to do with this information and how they want to twist it is their call.

Okay cool. I’d say we’re probably on the same side of thr boards then. My initial point was simply that player who can score like Matthews are going to trend toward the top of shooting %. Now whether he is a historically accurate sniper remains to be seen. Cheers.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Im VERY surprised Matthews isnt winning

I take Matthews 10 times out of 10 and it isnt close for me. No stats would change my mind either and Toronto is my most hated team in the league.

Plus I bet Barkov cant even spell Fortnite