so they played 80 games over the last 3 weeks while i was short a few players hmmm
ATD11 Regular Season Standings
- Thread starter VanIslander
- Start date
so they played 80 games over the last 3 weeks while i was short a few players hmmm
raleh
Registered User
haha, dude, you can't really argue the logic in this thing. No, they didn't actually play 80 games in the last three weeks. But we also didn't actually find a way to bring Maurice Richard back from the dead and put him on a team with Trevor Linden. So to answer your question, yes, they did play an 80 game fantasy season in three weeks. Pretty cool, eh?
Well, there are no pansies in the ATD (kinda). You're talking about the best players EVER. If they can't handle a mere 4 hockey games a day, they shouldn't even be drafted! 
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
i'd be in the veteran ATD GM who never gets out of his division division (with Leaf Lander, wisent, and whomever else has been in 4 or more ATDs and never won a division)
raleh
Registered User
Don't we all just belong in the "my team is always the best and I just keep getting screwed" division?
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
you mean the MXD division?
certainly not the one with pappyline, pitseleh, sturminator, transplanted caper, hockey outsider
EagleBelfour
Registered User
Just want to repeat myself that we'll need someone to take the votes and tabulate them, unless everyone is fine with getting the results late sunday night or monday.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Honestly, that would be fine with me. You know I'm never in a hurry with these things.
Canadiens Fan
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2008
- 737
- 8
I would second this. Because I'm busy preparing my arguments for my own series, I haven't had nearly the time I wanted to examine the other series much less even give them a serious look.
Sturminator
Love is a duel
I have kind of done the opposite as I've been working or studying for the last couple of days. During breaks I've looked at the other series, but I'm just now working on the defence of my team. A couple more days would be beneficial as the first round is the most work to do due to the number of teams.
I know some of the GMs probably want to get this done before the end of the NHL season, but I think waiting until the weekend to vote would help the process more than it would hurt it.
Hockey Outsider
Registered User
- Jan 16, 2005
- 9,148
- 14,460
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Research helps a ton. Every draft it is the guys who find something new about their players, or a new spin on existing info, that thrive. Look at Bugg, who had a respectable 5th place finish. he dug up an article on Mike Grant that none of us had seen before, basically doubling the knowledge that we as a group had on a guy. Seemingly little things like that can be huge. It establishes credibility, as you said. It gets your name out there.
DO be intimidated. Please!
Couldn't have said it better myself. One more thing I love, is watching the draft positions of players evolve over time as more and more info comes to light and more discussion and analysis is done. Good picks get their teams far. bad picks don't. A good pick will likely be taken sooner the next time, and a bad pick will be taken later. Every draft the margins get thinner and thinner because we're getting better and better at having a draft list that closely resembles an "actual" top-672 list.
I'm not seeing it. The value there isn't anything special. Not bad picks, mind you, but you make them sound like steals.
Right around Sundin were Modano and Federko, two centers with similar careers, and Crosby and Thornton, players with three seasons each better than any he's had, but obviously shorter careers overall.
Right around Robitaille were Schriner, Dye, and Hextall, and Pitre 13 picks later.
Around Bauer, there were Zetterberg, Rousseau, Mosienko, and Phillips 17 picks later.
Around Damphousse, there were Goyette, Bobby Smith, Dunderdale (ouch!) and Weiland 14 picks later. (OUCH!)
This is not a criticism of your team or your assessments of players, but we are now on our 11th draft and there are many, many fewer steals than before. Rarely does a player slip through the cracks too far before being plucked, and the draft lists are a decent representation of player values.
No.
Was this criticized? I wouldn't have said anything.
Like any slot in the lineup, the first guy to grab one is going to get the best. GBC was the first to take his 4th line RW and he probably got the best one. Chabot is one of the few best backup goalies.
I don't blame you for saying that. When I was new, it felt like a clique to me. All I can recommend is to join in. We're not elitist. The first thing I thought when I read all this stuff was, "where was this side of ZM a month ago???"
This is the brightest group of hockey minds on the net, I am sure of it. We welcome all new ideas and discussion so please, bring something to the table. If nothing else, you'll get your name out there, and that can only be a good thing.
That's silly.
I see this type of thing happen too sometimes. I'm not going to single anyone out. But I would like to point out that all three of the GMs you pointed always have very strong teams. And VI sees things a lot differently from many other GMs; he's certainly not one of the "old boys club" here. Check out the fate of his misunderstoodand underappreciated ATD10 team.
Like Sturm said, 1-2 bad picks can ruin your chances of placing high.
Kovalev, as I pointed out, is still not an ATD player. His playoff numbers are the best thing he has going for him and that is not enough. Many undrafted players have better offensive credentials than him. Many more deliver similar offense and plenty more in the intangibles department.
Malkin is an ATD-level player but has he proven to be one of the 56 best offensive centers in the history of hockey after just three seasons? I think not. What 2nd line centers would you say he's better than?
Sure he's a great player but you're not looking at this relatively.
Although you have great players on that line, talking about career totals as though they mean anything is just stupid. Unless you're talking about contemporaries, but even then, elite finishes in the points race speaks to me more, and I believe that is the case for most of us.
PIMs just mean they took penalties. It may or may not mean that they're tough.
This is a good point.
I know the sting you're feeling. Take a look at my ATD8 forwards in my first ever draft. I had Denneny on the left, Dye on the right, and Thornton, Dionne, and Stewart up the middle. It looked like the most explosive offensive team in the draft, and maybe it was. But I didn't have the board guys on the top lines. I shuffled Steve Thomas and Wendel Clark up there, but in an ATD format, that's just not enough. You must have been thinking.... "Robitaille, Bauer, Sundin.... what am I missing here?" There is such a fine balance you have to strike to make lines, and a team, that satisfies the greatest numbers of GMs.
Not that I'm a big success story because I could easily be out in round 1 or 2 this draft, but I've gone from 7th to 5th to 4th to 2nd in my four drafts. Just pay attention, learn, share what you've dug up, and make more balanced teams the next time. Just remember that everyone is trying to do the same thing and the parity level has plateaued so if you don't get the results next time, it doesn't mean you did anything wrong.
papershoes
Registered User
i would be for this as well - school ends in three days and i have a mountain of paperwork / report cards to finish. i've barely had an opportunity to digest my own series let alone others.
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
funny that someone argues that results are biased due to Eagle finishing first in his division AND says there's an anti-Quebec bias in the same post...
Do previously successful GMs get an extra boost because of their credibility? Yes... but they also usually have great teams.
Do the GMs who talk more during the ATD get a boost in votes? Of course they do.
Good thing there isn't a cash prize! Because it's just for fun.
Do previously successful GMs get an extra boost because of their credibility? Yes... but they also usually have great teams.
Do the GMs who talk more during the ATD get a boost in votes? Of course they do.
Good thing there isn't a cash prize! Because it's just for fun.
This thing is a learning process. When I look back at my first draft, I often wonder what I was drinking. It wasn't so much that I made bad picks. But in hindsight, I realize that they wouldn't mesh.
Zambo, Red, Bugg and McMahon all had good teams. But it's this is a tough thing to crack. That's why I always recommend tracking a draft before joining in. You'll get an understanding of what it takes to succeed at this thing. And you'll get a read on the GMs. I have a good read on every veteran GM in the draft. I know what to expect from them. Every once in a while, someone surprises me. But I know what to expect from pit, Eagle, sturm and HO. They probably know what to expect from the GBC/raleh connection.
My defence in my first draft (a 17-team draft) was Harvey, Clancy, Taylor, Brewer, Cameron, Flaman and Mantha. On paper, it's a hell of a defence. In terms of a collective unit, it wouldn't work.
It's not just about personnel. It's about finding lines and pairings that fit. It's about getting the guys who are going to work well together in a locker room. That's what I look for. You can get away with having a jackass or two. But if that jackass is in the wrong role (say, back-up goalie), you won't win, because it'll become a toxic situation.
I don't think Sundin was a steal at 205. I think he fits at 205. There's one role for Mats Sundin in an ATD: second line centre. I think Bauer was a steal - he's an excellent second line dangler if you can find the guys who can open up room for him. Damphousse is fine for where you picked him.
I don't really believe in reaches for picking a guy too soon. There are a few exceptions in each draft, but you have to realize that in a 28-team draft, you're looking at a 26-55 spot difference between picks. If there's that one guy out there who's the perfect guy for your team, for his role, you have to get him. Is Bun Cook a mid-seventh round player? Probably not. But he was the guy we felt was the perfect fit for our first line LW spot. And I didn't think he'd be available in eight. So we had to get him when we did.
The bigger issue for me is whether a play is a reach in his role. In a 28-team draft, you're going to have one or two guys on your team who are miscast. You're going to have a second liner who should be on a third line, or a No. 4 defenceman who should be a No. 5. That's okay. The key is to minimize the guys who are out of place, and minimize their impact. If you have a second line forward who should be a role player, or a spare part, or a No. 3 who should be a No. 5 or 6 defenceman, then you're in trouble. Picking guys too soon if they fit a role? That's fine. Placing guys in a role that they have no business in? That's a problem.
Career numbers mean something. You score 500 goals in the show? You've done something remarkable. They don't mean a lot in this context, and they aren't a fair evaluator because a guy who played in the 30s had zero shot at anything more than 200-300 goals. So many factors that limited career goals and points. The game changed so much in the mid 60s with expansion and the arrival of Bobby Orr.
Keep in mind it's just for fun. You finish last and get eliminated first round? What does that mean in the grand scheme of things? Nothing. It's a fun draft with no cash prize, no brass ring, no trophy, and it's with a bunch of guys you haven't met, or you'll never meet. I've had A beer with 70s at Willy's Tap House in Estevan. Murphy, raleh and pitseleh are my buddies. (Among other guys in the draft). Never met them. I think the world of pappy because I've learned a lot from him. Never met him.
Winning my $100/year fantasy hockey pool with some of my best buddies means something. Winning my baseball pool means something. Winning this? I'd smile, thank the fellas, thank my partner in crime. That's it. Maybe put it as the signature for my account.
I don't like simulators. The only way I'll buy into a simulator is if it takes character, team play, work ethic and second effort into account.
It's not a bias against rookies. It's not a bias against where you live. Reality is this is a very high-calibre draft. It's hard to step into. Our rookies will have much better entries next draft.
Zambo, Red, Bugg and McMahon all had good teams. But it's this is a tough thing to crack. That's why I always recommend tracking a draft before joining in. You'll get an understanding of what it takes to succeed at this thing. And you'll get a read on the GMs. I have a good read on every veteran GM in the draft. I know what to expect from them. Every once in a while, someone surprises me. But I know what to expect from pit, Eagle, sturm and HO. They probably know what to expect from the GBC/raleh connection.
My defence in my first draft (a 17-team draft) was Harvey, Clancy, Taylor, Brewer, Cameron, Flaman and Mantha. On paper, it's a hell of a defence. In terms of a collective unit, it wouldn't work.
It's not just about personnel. It's about finding lines and pairings that fit. It's about getting the guys who are going to work well together in a locker room. That's what I look for. You can get away with having a jackass or two. But if that jackass is in the wrong role (say, back-up goalie), you won't win, because it'll become a toxic situation.
I don't think Sundin was a steal at 205. I think he fits at 205. There's one role for Mats Sundin in an ATD: second line centre. I think Bauer was a steal - he's an excellent second line dangler if you can find the guys who can open up room for him. Damphousse is fine for where you picked him.
I don't really believe in reaches for picking a guy too soon. There are a few exceptions in each draft, but you have to realize that in a 28-team draft, you're looking at a 26-55 spot difference between picks. If there's that one guy out there who's the perfect guy for your team, for his role, you have to get him. Is Bun Cook a mid-seventh round player? Probably not. But he was the guy we felt was the perfect fit for our first line LW spot. And I didn't think he'd be available in eight. So we had to get him when we did.
The bigger issue for me is whether a play is a reach in his role. In a 28-team draft, you're going to have one or two guys on your team who are miscast. You're going to have a second liner who should be on a third line, or a No. 4 defenceman who should be a No. 5. That's okay. The key is to minimize the guys who are out of place, and minimize their impact. If you have a second line forward who should be a role player, or a spare part, or a No. 3 who should be a No. 5 or 6 defenceman, then you're in trouble. Picking guys too soon if they fit a role? That's fine. Placing guys in a role that they have no business in? That's a problem.
Career numbers mean something. You score 500 goals in the show? You've done something remarkable. They don't mean a lot in this context, and they aren't a fair evaluator because a guy who played in the 30s had zero shot at anything more than 200-300 goals. So many factors that limited career goals and points. The game changed so much in the mid 60s with expansion and the arrival of Bobby Orr.
Keep in mind it's just for fun. You finish last and get eliminated first round? What does that mean in the grand scheme of things? Nothing. It's a fun draft with no cash prize, no brass ring, no trophy, and it's with a bunch of guys you haven't met, or you'll never meet. I've had A beer with 70s at Willy's Tap House in Estevan. Murphy, raleh and pitseleh are my buddies. (Among other guys in the draft). Never met them. I think the world of pappy because I've learned a lot from him. Never met him.
Winning my $100/year fantasy hockey pool with some of my best buddies means something. Winning my baseball pool means something. Winning this? I'd smile, thank the fellas, thank my partner in crime. That's it. Maybe put it as the signature for my account.
I don't like simulators. The only way I'll buy into a simulator is if it takes character, team play, work ethic and second effort into account.
It's not a bias against rookies. It's not a bias against where you live. Reality is this is a very high-calibre draft. It's hard to step into. Our rookies will have much better entries next draft.
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
My plan was a Cook-Bentley-Jagr 1st line, and I didn't think Cook would be gone by my pick. So yeah, he would have been gone.
EagleBelfour
Registered User
So it's settle. The time limit to vote is May 31st at 11:59PM ET. I'll announce the results on monday and with some luck be able to create the second round matchup.
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
- 76,568
- 21,103
Good to know. Maybe it's just because I haven't been participating much in this thread, but the vote deadline was a little difficult for me to find.
Perhaps we could institute some sort of mass PM or dedicated thread for deadlines?
EagleBelfour
Registered User
It easy for subscriber to send mass PM. I'm not a subscriber. If someone wants to mass PM the GM's, feel free to do so. Myself won't doing it one by one though.
Alright, I think I got everyone with reminders. Apologies if I missed anyone.
Though I now realize that I probably didn't need to send one to EB.
Though I now realize that I probably didn't need to send one to EB.
