ATD 2022 Rules Discussion

[rmartin65]

I'll go ahead and start the poll threads this morning. I figure we'll leave them open for a week. Let me know if I missed a poll that somebody has an interest in.

I am NOT adding a poll for getting HoH/non-participant members as voters- I think it is a given that more voters is almost always better.

 

[Professor What]

How would it be determined as to who was and wasn't allowed to vote? I agree that an expanded voting pool is good, but "Patrick Kane is better than Gordie Howe because modern" clearly doesn't need to be involved.

 

[rmartin65]

How would it be determined as to who was and wasn't allowed to vote? I agree that an expanded voting pool is good, but "Patrick Kane is better than Gordie Howe because modern" clearly doesn't need to be involved.

Agreed… but I don’t think this will be much of a concern. People who participate in the draft don’t even vote, do we really think a bunch of non-participants are going to come in? It’s probably alright if we just make decisions on perspective voters as they arise. If there are poster that people wish to see as voters, I suggest we tag them in this thread and ask for their input. Otherwise… I feel like we will just be searching for a problem in need of a solution.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Multiple teams was a one-off, it's a bad idea, ESPECIALLY with trades. You can see the mix-ups in the draft thread OP coming from a mile away, if it's not the GMs themselves who trade picks belonging to their other team by mistake.

If we're looking at 10-15 GMs, multiple teams brings us right back to the 20-30 range. Another reason to vote against it.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I liked having 2 teams just because it gave me more to obsess over.

But I agree that the goal should be to have a unique size and multiple teams gets us right back into the typical bracket

 

[Say Hey Kid]

Pls delete

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Expanding the voting bloc to agreed upon (and willing) HoH members is something I've brought up before and would need to see in order to really invest any serious time in this again. Otherwise, I think I'd just draft, set a line up and let the chips fall where they may. We need more people voting and people who don't have skin in the game to help offset inherent biases and constant squabbling that occurs every year. We all know who the reputable people are in the parent forum, some of which I don't think would mind looking at a handful of match ups and casting a vote. This especially true if you only have 10-14 GM's as you know not everyone is gong to vote every round which severely limits the entire point/value of the post draft portion. You send out some PM's to a group of HoH members (say people who have participated in multiple HoH projects/mods/etc) and hopefully gain a much larger voting pool.

Unlimited trading WITH a 3 GM pass/fail bar for said trades. Or none. Just make it one or the other.

Yes to public voting. Should have been done for years.

Don't want to see another 2 teams per GM draft again. If anything having a 12-14 team draft would at least be interesting as we've never seen anything that small, a change which will impact strategy in a different ways. We've run the 20-30ish size drafts so many times. If we end up with that many fine, but I wouldn't mind seeing one draft with fewer overall GM's.

For the record, past ATDers have always been able to vote here, and occasionally do. Most usually don't. But we also don't actively solicit votes from past ATDers, so maybe that part could change?

I do have to say that having a smaller draft is kind of enticing me to join up after thinking I wouldn't

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

How would it be determined as to who was and wasn't allowed to vote? I agree that an expanded voting pool is good, but "Patrick Kane is better than Gordie Howe because modern" clearly doesn't need to be involved.

2 or more previous ATDs = you can vote

Or at least that's what I would do

 

[ImporterExporter]

For the record, past ATDers have always been able to vote here, and occasionally do. Most usually don't. But we also don't actively solicit votes from past ATDers, so maybe that part could change?

I do have to say that having a smaller draft is kind of enticing me to join up after thinking I wouldn't

Very aware of this, though without actively recruiting people to actually give it a boost, we've quite literally seen next to no one ever show up. So, year after year, we have the same people voting.

Maybe no one will show up even with PM's sent. IT wouldn't take much effort/time for a non GM to read a few pages of debate and cast a vote, but again, it obviously is up to those people. It's pretty clear though, that part of the reason for people bailing is the wash, rinse, repeat of the post draft process.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

RB's post in the other thread made me realize - a 13-16 team draft will go by much faster.

Can we adjust the clocks accordingly?

 

[ResilientBeast]

RB's post in the other thread made me realize - a 13-16 team draft will go by much faster.

Can we adjust the clocks accordingly?

To longer?

 

[ImporterExporter]

RB's post in the other thread made me realize - a 13-16 team draft will go by much faster.

Can we adjust the clocks accordingly?

nm

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

We should have longer clocks in a smaller draft, IMO.

This was last year, which IMO, was already a little too fast.

24 hour clock for round 1
then 12 hour clock for round 2
then 10 hour clock for rounds 3-6,
then 8 hour clock for rounds 7-14,
then 6 hour clock for rounds 15-20,
then 4 hour clock for rounds 21-24

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

How about?

24 hour clock for round 1
then 12 hour clock for round 2
then 8 hour clock for rounds 3-6,
then 6 hour clock for rounds 7-14,
then 4 hour clock for rounds 15-24

I’d say make the 6 hour slot 8 hrs as well, mostly because it’s common for people to sleep more than 8 hrs and those are top 9 F/top 4 D/ starting G picks

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

We should have longer clocks in a smaller draft, IMO.

This was last year, which IMO, was already a little too fast.

24 hour clock for round 1
then 12 hour clock for round 2
then 10 hour clock for rounds 3-6,
then 8 hour clock for rounds 7-14,
then 6 hour clock for rounds 15-20,
then 4 hour clock for rounds 21-24

This would be good too

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I'm against starting a 4 hour before Round 21, as it makes it too easy to be skipped when you are still filling out your starting roster.

Sheesh, I thought the clocks were a little too short, and you guys want to shorten them more? Maybe we should just leave it the same

 

[ImporterExporter]

We should have longer clocks in a smaller draft, IMO.

This was last year, which IMO, was already a little too fast.

24 hour clock for round 1
then 12 hour clock for round 2
then 10 hour clock for rounds 3-6,
then 8 hour clock for rounds 7-14,
then 6 hour clock for rounds 15-20,
then 4 hour clock for rounds 21-24

What if we did

24 hr for rounds 1-2
12 for 3-6
10 for 7-10
8 for 11-14
6 for 15-20
4 for rest

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

What if we did

24 hr for rounds 1-2
12 for 3-6
10 for 7-10
8 for 11-14
6 for 15-20
4 for rest

24 hours is sooo long, lol.

Combining what we did last year with your idea this year what about:

24 hr for round 1 (please no longer!)
12 for round 2
10 for rounds 3-10
8 for 11-20
4 (or 6, I don't care) for 21-24

IMO, there's a big difference between 8 hours and anything lower than that if your pick comes up in the middle of the night in your time zone.

__________________

Edit: I would also be fine with:

24 hr for round 1 (please no longer!)
12 for round 2
10 for rounds 3-10
8 for 11-14
6 for 15-20
4 for rest

 

[ImporterExporter]

24 hours is sooo long, lol.

Combining what we did last year with your idea this year what about:

24 hr for round 1 (please no longer!)
12 for round 2
10 for rounds 3-10
8 for 11-20
4 (or 6, I don't care) for 21-24

IMO, there's a big difference between 8 hours and anything lower than that if your pick comes up in the middle of the night in your time zone.

__________________

Edit: I would also be fine with:

24 hr for round 1 (please no longer!)
12 for round 2
10 for rounds 3-10
8 for 11-14
6 for 15-20
4 for rest

I like the 2nd one. You get at least 8 hours for top 3 lines/top 2 pairings/G.

 

[BenchBrawl]

The clock is like healthcare systems. We whine about it every year, but nothing will ever change and in the end it sort of works.

It's like the weather, something to complain about.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I like the 2nd one. You get at least 8 hours for top 3 lines/top 2 pairings/G.

Just reposting it for others:

This is the current clock proposal. Slightly longer clocks in the middle of the draft than in last year's larger draft:

24 hr for round 1
12 for round 2
10 for rounds 3-10
8 for 11-14
6 for 15-20
4 for rest

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I'm against starting a 4 hour before Round 21, as it makes it too easy to be skipped when you are still filling out your starting roster.

Sheesh, I thought the clocks were a little too short, and you guys want to shorten them more? Maybe we should just leave it the same

I am also in favor of longer clocks in a draft with fewer GMs like this...I didn't even check the previous clocks when I initially replied to IE's proposal, I was just assuming he was lengthening them.

Anyway, this latest proposal seems good, I would even be in favor making the 6 hour period 8 hours as well, but fine either way.

 

[VanIslander]

Just reposting it for others:

This is the current clock proposal. Slightly longer clocks in the middle of the draft than in last year's larger draft:

24 hr for round 1
12 for round 2
10 for rounds 3-10
8 for 11-14
6 for 15-20
4 for rest

Given how valuable 17th to 20th overall will be! Give round 2 more time. Besides, one's team building strategy really hinges on the 2nd pick.

24 hours rounds 1&2

After all, with so many less players, time will fly by.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Given how valuable 17th to 20th overall will be! Give round 2 more time. Besides, one's team building strategy really hinges on the 2nd pick.

24 hours rounds 1&2

After all, with so many less players, time will fly by.

As far as I know, the 2nd round has never been given 24 hours. Why change now?

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

The 24 hour clock in Round 1 is kind of a case of "Theory-and-Practice."

In theory, 24 hours is a helluva long time for someone to make up their mind about the primary piece of their team.

In practice, most people make pretty quick decisions in Round 1.

Longer clocks benefit one particular activity... trading. If we're all right with trading, we should be all right with longer clocks.