ATD 2022 Draft Thread II

[The Macho King]

I’m not on the longevity tip like y’all. This guy was an unstoppable sniping power forward. Much like Lindros and Forsberg have way more value than given here.

I can be sold on Forsberg. Lindros is overrated.

 

[tinyzombies]

I can be sold on Forsberg. Lindros is overrated.

Not a chance. I was there and my eyeballs disagree.

overrated in the sense he wasn’t the next great one maybe.

he was always the best player on the ice. Lidstrom et al had talents that were magnified by the team concept. Lindros never had that chance

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I can be sold on Forsberg. Lindros is overrated.

Forsberg was actually significantly healthier in his prime than Lindros was. There are degrees of injury-prone

 

[ResilientBeast]

Much like Lindros and Forsberg have way more value than given here. He’s the bpa in my estimation

I didn't even realize Neely's 7 year VsX doesn't even make @Hockey Outsider's top 300 table lol

 

[Dreakmur]

Not a chance. I was there and my eyeballs disagree.

overrated in the sense he wasn’t the next great one maybe.

he was always the best player on the ice. Lidstrom et al had talents that were magnified by the team concept. Lindros never had that chance

Lindros is a force, even in this draft.... but you need somebody to fill in for the 1/4 season he'll be injured.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Lindros was an absolute unit. One of the great "what-if" players due to injuries but when he was healthy, was nearly unstoppable. Really strong player at ES too. I saw him live a few times and a lot growing up in PA (Pens fan).

 

[Sturminator]

I didn't even realize Neely's 7 year VsX doesn't even make @Hockey Outsider's top 300 table lol

Which is somewhat unfair to Cam, whose goals/assists ratio was extremely tilted towards goalscoring. It hasn't always been this way (assists were awarded much less generously in the prewar era, for example), but in the modern NHL, goals are generally worth more. VsX doesn't take this into account, to the detriment of players like Neely.

edit: typo

 

[ResilientBeast]

Which is somewhat unfair to Cam, and his goals/assists ratio was extremely tilted towards goalscoring. It hasn't always been this way (assists were awarded much less generously in the prewar era, for example), but in the modern NHL, goals are generally worth more. VsX doesn't take this into account, to the detriment of players like Neely.

He naturally makes the 7 year in goals VsX that he posted in the same thread.

In my first draft in 2014 I took Neely around pick 100, in more recent history he's settled closer to 200 and that's where he belongs.

But the market dynamics of this draft have pushed power forwards in general even higher.

If I wanted a power-forward I guess he's probably the best of any of them

 

[The Macho King]

Lindros never played a complete season. In fact, he only played 70+ games four times. His best season was a shortened one.

You have to be on the ice to help. I don't give a damn about "team concept" or whatever if you spend 20+ games a year in the press box.

 

[tinyzombies]

Lindros is a force, even in this draft.... but you need somebody to fill in for the 1/4 season he'll be injured.

Partly depends on team concept and role whether he gets injured no? He shouldn’t automatically be in danger of injury every single atd season because then you lose sight of the player. No one is going to have him run around like he did

 

[Sturminator]

Partly depends on team concept and role whether he gets injured no? He shouldn’t automatically be in danger of injury every single atd season because then you lose site of the player.

True, though in the ATD everybody ends up facing a murderer's row of punishing bluelines, especially in a smaller draft. I'm not going to get into specific (and probably unfair) digs at Lindros vis-a-vis injuries, but his style of play led to him writing checks his body couldn't always cash. Lindros is hardly alone in this. It is true of many players, Peter Forsberg among them.

 

[tinyzombies]

True, though in the ATD everybody ends up facing a murderer's row of punishing bluelines, especially in a smaller draft. I'm not going to get into specific (and probably unfair) digs at Lindros vis-a-vis injuries, but his style of play led to him writing checks his body couldn't always cash. Lindros is hardly alone in this. It is true of many players, Peter Forsberg among them.

ok but what rules are we playing by? No headshots allowed today and you can’t touch him in front or hold or run interference which was probably the source of a lot of his anger.

your D better be able to skate!

 

[Sturminator]

ok but what rules are we playing by?

This is an open question as far as I know.

your D better be able to skate!

Facts.

 

[The Macho King]

Lindros was an absolute unit. One of the great "what-if" players due to injuries but when he was healthy, was nearly unstoppable. Really strong player at ES too. I saw him live a few times and a lot growing up in PA (Pens fan).

My biggest issue is that a lot of his injuries were his fault. He played a style that led to him getting hurt a lot. It wasn't Sami Salo getting bit by a snake or some shit that led to him missing time.

 

[ResilientBeast]

My biggest issue is that a lot of his injuries were his fault. He played a style that led to him getting hurt a lot. It wasn't Sami Salo getting bit by a snake or some shit that led to him missing time.

Wait did that happen?

 

[The Macho King]

Wait did that happen?

Sami Salo - Wikipedia

In 2000, he missed two games as he suffered from a snakebite.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I always think of ATD rules as basically an average of NHL rules over time. So like.. definitely more physical than 2006-present NHL but not as brutal as pre-WW2 hockey.

The only rules set in stone in the ATD as far as I am concerned are 6 men on the ice (including goalie) and # of players dressed - basically roster size stuff.

 

[tinyzombies]

My biggest issue is that a lot of his injuries were his fault. He played a style that led to him getting hurt a lot. It wasn't Sami Salo getting bit by a snake or some shit that led to him missing time.

this I agree with. He was sadistic lol. He once took a run at Rathje in the corner and I had my beer on the dasher… and he spilled it all over my lap which elicited huge laughter from the whole section. And the glass bent to my nose and almost broke

 

[Dreakmur]

Partly depends on team concept and role whether he gets injured no? He shouldn’t automatically be in danger of injury every single atd season because then you lose sight of the player. No one is going to have him run around like he did

Lindros got injured every year, and it was mostly due to his aggressive style of play. The only way he gets injured less here is if he stops being aggressive.

 

[ImporterExporter]

My biggest issue is that a lot of his injuries were his fault. He played a style that led to him getting hurt a lot. It wasn't Sami Salo getting bit by a snake or some shit that led to him missing time.

I agree. I don't have a dog in the fight. Just stating what I saw with my own eyes when he was healthy. And while he did bring a lot of "miss 5 games here, miss 15 there" on himself, the Stevens hit basically ended his career at age 26, and that was just Stevens being Stevens. He never recovered from that brain injury.

 

[Dreakmur]

I always think of ATD rules as basically an average of NHL rules over time. So like.. definitely more physical than 2006-present NHL but not as brutal as pre-WW2 hockey.

The only rules set in stone in the ATD as far as I am concerned are 6 men on the ice (including goalie) and # of players dressed - basically roster size stuff.

Each player plays under the rules of their own time. If they legally used hooking or holding or intimidation to be effective, they can still use that to be equally effective.

 

[The Macho King]

Each player plays under the rules of their own time. If they legally used hooking or holding or intimidation to be effective, they can still use that to be equally effective.

So like... Cleghorn is going to use his stick like a lightsaber, but we're going to adjust that when he hits Martin St. Louis as being a cross-check?

 

[Dreakmur]

To be fair to Lindros, while he will miss games, he's a legit badass for the one's he'll play.... like arguably top-10 centre kind of badass.

 

[tinyzombies]

Lindros got injured every year, and it was mostly due to his aggressive style of play. The only way he gets injured less here is if he stops being aggressive.

he was more than aggressive he was mean

 

[Dreakmur]

So like... Cleghorn is going to use his stick like a lightsaber, but we're going to adjust that when he hits Martin St. Louis as being a cross-check?

Cleghorn was suspended for his stick-swinging incident.

I'm talking about the stuff that was legal back then, but is illegal now.