ATD 2022 Draft Thread II

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Sturminator

Love is a duel
Feb 27, 2002
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Roy Conacher is another 1930's player who I wish we knew more about. It seems that beyond his scoring and physical measurements, he's more or less a blank slate in terms of our knowledge of his game. This is a shame, though I can only imagine the younger Conacher is quite difficult to research due to the era, his brothers, and the other stars on those Bruins teams.
 

tinyzombies

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Roy Conacher is another 1930's player who I wish we knew more about. It seems that beyond his scoring and physical measurements, he's more or less a blank slate in terms of our knowledge of his game. This is a shame, though I can only imagine the younger Conacher is quite difficult to research due to the era, his brother, and the other stars on those Bruins teams.

one thing, if he had good hands and a big shot with those canoe paddles, he was strong.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
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1. Roy was a 1940s player NOT a 1930s player except for his rookie year.

2. He had 9 good seasons. That is not bad but not a plus.

3. His best season was 1949 as a Hart trophy finalist (maybe a product of line chemistry?).

4. His decade was the 1940's and he ain't top 10 and 4 of the top-10 ain't great but he is 7th in goals despite the WWII break...
 
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tinyzombies

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1. Roy was a 1940s player NOT a 1930s player except for his rookie year.2.

2. He had 9 good seasons. That is not bad but not a plus.

3. His best season was 1949 as a Hart trophy finalist (maybe a product of line chemistry?)

4. His decade was the 1940's and he ain't top 10 and 4 of the top-10 ain't great and

(Am on a smartphone that doesn't multitask so will update shortly)

Are you calling Mrs Conacher a liar? Lindsay had linemates what’s wrong with having a linemate one year?

Looking at Lindsay carry the puck it’s obvious he was a play driver in his own right. The Roy C bio says he was good at going around dmen which is a good indicator of play driving perhaps. He wasn’t a one trick pony with the big accurate shot. And his post war numbers rank pretty much with Ted, but you guys are strictly resume and not skills. His resume is pretty damned good tho
 
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The Macho King

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Are you calling Mrs Conacher a liar? Lindsay had linemates what’s wrong with having a linemate one year?

Looking at Lindsay carry the puck it’s obvious he was a play driver in his own right. The Roy C bio says he was good at going around dmen which is a good indicator of play driving perhaps. He wasn’t a one trick pony with the big accurate shot. And his post war numbers rank pretty much with Ted, but you guys are strictly resume and not skills. His resume is pretty damned good tho
Considering how LWs have been going, I don't think it was a bad pick. I do think you'll have to do more work if you want to argue he was a play-driver, though.
 
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overpass

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Roy Conacher is another 1930's player who I wish we knew more about. It seems that beyond his scoring and physical measurements, he's more or less a blank slate in terms of our knowledge of his game. This is a shame, though I can only imagine the younger Conacher is quite difficult to research due to the era, his brothers, and the other stars on those Bruins teams.

Charlie Conacher said that Roy never liked playing hockey and only played in the NHL for the money. What that means for the ATD, I don’t know, but I thought it was interesting.

Not that anyone here needs to read this, but it just shows that hockey has been a lucrative career for longer than most fans probably know.

"How I’d make hockey a better game” | Maclean's | APRIL 27, 1957

When I stopped to figure it out as the cab whirled me downtown, I realized that the three of us had logged thirty-five years as performers or as coaches (when Roy retired the following spring, that made it thirty-six). Each of us became an all-star player—Lionel as a defenseman, Roy as a left-winger and me as a right-winger, and the game had been the focal point of our lives.

Now, in honesty, I think I must say that in spite of those thirty-six years in the game, hockey was largely a means to an end to the Conacher family, and to each of us it represented something different. 1 doubt that any of us — my mother or father or any of the ten kids — had any deep-rooted love for the game itself.

Hockey, curiously enough, meant misery to Roy. He played because I made him play. Where else was he going to get any money? Before he turned pro with Boston he was driving a truck for a men's-wear shop in Toronto for ten dollars a week. Roy loved the shinny sessions he and his twin brother Bert and I used to have on the street where we’d play with hockey sticks and a rubber ball. But once Roy got into organized hockey he hated the game. One time when he and Bert were playing for the West Toronto juniors, Roy purposely left his skates at home, hoping he wouldn’t have to play. I was with the Leafs then, and I’d gone down to the rink to see the game. I knew what Roy was up to. I sent him galloping home for his skates. When he got back he scored three goals against the Native Sons. Roy could always put the puck in the net, even without relish. He played hockey in the NHL for eleven seasons and his career was interrupted for a stretch of four years while he was in the RCAF, but in spite of this fine record he did his job without enthusiasm. He’s told me that each year he could feel the tension growing tighter, and he found that the more goals he scored each season the more he was expected to deliver the following season. It got so that Roy, who has a tremendous bond with his twin Bert, refused to go to training camp or to play another year of hockey unless Bert, who lost an eye playing shinny with us when he was sixteen, went with him. So what hockey meant to Bert was that he could be with Roy and help him.
 

tinyzombies

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Charlie Conacher said that Roy never liked playing hockey and only played in the NHL for the money. What that means for the ATD, I don’t know, but I thought it was interesting.

Not that anyone here needs to read this, but it just shows that hockey has been a lucrative career for longer than most fans probably know.

"How I’d make hockey a better game” | Maclean's | APRIL 27, 1957

being the brother of perhaps the greatest sportsman of the first half century and another who was at one time best hockey player in the world can’t be easy and probably attracted a lot of violence hence the byng finishes. Didn’t stop him from scoring tho.

not wanting to go into hockey can be separated from pressure to perform while in the nhl tho, no? Two different things.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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Charlie Conacher said that Roy never liked playing hockey and only played in the NHL for the money. What that means for the ATD, I don’t know, but I thought it was interesting.

Not that anyone here needs to read this, but it just shows that hockey has been a lucrative career for longer than most fans probably know.

"How I’d make hockey a better game” | Maclean's | APRIL 27, 1957

Was Charlie the only Conacher who enjoyed hockey? I know Lionel preferred lacrosse rugby but also ended up focusing on hockey for the money.

Edit: It was Lalonde who came from lacrosse to hockey
 
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Dreakmur

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2. He had 9 good seasons. That is not bad but not a plus.

He lost 4 seasons serving in WWII.

3. His best season was 1949 as a Hart trophy finalist (maybe a product of line chemistry?).

I'm pretty sure that was the season Chicago was busted for fabricating assists on the game sheets. I'm not exactly sure how to handle that, but I would probably chop his assist numbers down to his career average.
 

tinyzombies

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Was Charlie the only Conacher who enjoyed hockey? I know Lionel preferred lacrosse but also ended up focusing on hockey for the money.

is it possible his brothers were a tad hard on him also? Lionel didn’t seem like a warm fuzzy guy.

mid he could have achieved more with his talent that means he had all time great talent. The numbers are there for him to rank anyway.

I’ll check the French papers later
 

Sturminator

Love is a duel
Feb 27, 2002
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I'm pretty sure that was the season Chicago was busted for fabricating assists on the game sheets. I'm not exactly sure how to handle that, but I would probably chop his assist numbers down to his career average.
Yeah, he and Doug Bentley simultaneously had anomalously high assist totals that season, and the Chicago scorekeepers were called out for it at the time...strong evidence that the books were being cooked.
 
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TheDevilMadeMe

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I'm pretty sure that was the season Chicago was busted for fabricating assists on the game sheets. I'm not exactly sure how to handle that, but I would probably chop his assist numbers down to his career average.

That was pretty much the last few years of the 1940s, though 1948-49 looks like the most egregious. This obviously wont' come up when looking at top 10 finishes or whatever, but VsX does contain a "late 40s Chicago" assist fudge that tries to account for the overawarding of assists by Chicago.* Basically, VsX already docks players like Conacher and Doug Bentley a little bit.

*Is it that Chicago overawarded assists, or that every other team underawarded them? I believe that late 40s Chicago gave out assists at the modern rate, something that other teams didn't start doing until several years later.
 
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Professor What

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Alright, I've decided to finish out my second defensive pair. I'm going to put a third Norris winner on my blueline by adding Tom Johnson!

original.png
 

tinyzombies

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That was pretty much the last few years of the 1940s, though 1948-49 looks like the most egregious. This obviously wont' come up when looking at top 10 finishes or whatever, but VsX does contain a "late 40s Chicago" assist fudge that tries to account for the overawarding of assists by Chicago.* Basically, VsX already docks players like Conacher and Doug Bentley a little bit.

*Is it that Chicago overawarded assists, or that every other team underawarded them? I believe that late 40s Chicago gave out assists at the modern rate, something that other teams didn't start doing until several years later.

homeboy could snipe, dish and beat a dman one on one and you are trimming his bonsai
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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TheDevilMadeMe said:
Was Charlie the only Conacher who enjoyed hockey? I know Lionel preferred lacrosse but also ended up focusing on hockey for the money.
Lol.

No.

Lionel loved rugby 1st and foremost, though he won wrestling and boxing championships, knocking out heavyweight boxing champ Jack Dempsey, winning multiple football championships as the star of the Toronto Argunauts, after winning the Memorial Cup in the winter and deciding hockey would be his winter sport, winning multiple Stanley Cups, two Hart trophy finalist nods (Charlie never did that), and clearly Canada's top athlete of the half century.

I never understood how a Rod Langway went before Lionel Conacher. *stumped* ...
 

overpass

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Was Charlie the only Conacher who enjoyed hockey? I know Lionel preferred lacrosse but also ended up focusing on hockey for the money.

I’d say Lionel and Charlie were similar. They were athletes who enjoyed competing, but whether they liked hockey or not was beside the point. They played it for the money from childhood.

Charlie wrote that when he was 9 years old, Lionel told him the money was in hockey and he had better start practicing…and from that point on, Charlie practiced hockey every moment he could, mostly street hockey and also ice hockey when he could. So for Charlie, as for his brothers, hockey was always a way out of poverty first.

It seems Roy was also the one of his brothers who didn’t touch the bottle. Lionel’s career took a dip during his “Drink Canada dry” period, and then he bounced back in his 30s after he sobered up. Charlie wrote that in his final season in New York, there was more ice cube than ice, but then he quit drinking after his playing career was over. But Roy never drank a drop in his life. It was probably for the best that he didn’t self-medicate for his anxiety and follow Lionel’s example.
 

The Macho King

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Lol.

No.

Lionel loved rugby 1st and foremost, though he won wrestling and boxing championships, knocking out heavyweight boxing champ Jack Dempsey, winning multiple football championships as the star of the Toronto Argunauts, after winning the Memorial Cup in the winter and deciding hockey would be his winter sport, winning multiple Stanley Cups, two Hart trophy finalist nods (Charlie never did that), and clearly Canada's top athlete of the half century.

I never understood how a Rod Langway went before Lionel Conacher. *stumped* ...
I mean - Langway has the two Norris trophies and three high Hart finishes. The oddness of his Norris' (and Hart totals) paired with his very low offensive totals for the era (or honestly pretty much any era) really stand out.

He definitely goes too high I think, but it's mainly because his contributing seasons are fairly rare. He has what - a five year prime? There are a few undrafteds in his era which I don't think he necessarily is so much better than to justify the 200+ pick difference. As a left shot that also lessens his value a bit IMO (depending on who is on the right side). IDK - Langway is just such a historical anomaly that it's hard to figure out what to do with him period.
 
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RustyRazor

né Selfish Man
Mar 9, 2004
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We're going to attempt a supercharged version of a line Mario played on with two power forward types who did the dirty work, got Mario the puck, and potted tons of goals. LeClair - Lemieux - Iginla

Portland Penguins select John LeClair.
79b0b6233d385a1bd12f863f50c08b0a--pittsburgh-sports.jpg


She wants to sell my monkey! John LeClair!
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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I personally see Langway, Savard, Stewart, and Ivan Johnson (I'm still calling him Ching in my roster post to not confuse anyone) as the cream of the crop when it comes to "pure defensive defensemen," all with different strengths and weaknesses in their resumes, but all fulfilling a similar function in the ATD. (Yes, I realize Serge Savard wasn't just defensive early in his career, but I have a tough time figuring out what to do with that in the ATD).

Langway with the most pronounced strengths and weaknesses as indicated in @The Macho King 's post above.

Lionel Conacher was a great player, but he clearly had an inferior awards record to Ivan Johnson, playing at the same time, despite usually outscoring Johnson, so I don't really think he's the same type.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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Lol.

No.

Lionel loved rugby 1st and foremost, though he won wrestling and boxing championships, knocking out heavyweight boxing champ Jack Dempsey, winning multiple football championships as the star of the Toronto Argunauts, after winning the Memorial Cup in the winter and deciding hockey would be his winter sport, winning multiple Stanley Cups, two Hart trophy finalist nods (Charlie never did that), and clearly Canada's top athlete of the half century.

I never understood how a Rod Langway went before Lionel Conacher. *stumped* ...

Yes, I was thinking of Lalonde's lacrosse background. You're right, rugby was Lionel Conacher's first love. I edited my post.
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
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Hmmm... I guess he's the only RW in this group that I would classify as a "power forward", so maybe that pumps his value a bit, but...

Feels like he would have been safe to pick later.
 
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tinyzombies

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Hmmm... I guess he's the only RW in this group that I would classify as a "power forward", so maybe that pumps his value a bit, but...

Feels like he would have been safe to pick later.

I’m not on the longevity tip like y’all. This guy was an unstoppable sniping power forward. Much like Lindros and Forsberg have way more value than given here. He’s the bpa in my estimation. Longevity and winning can be circumstantial.
 
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