ATD 2021 Draft Thread IV

[Hawkey Town 18]

List sent to @Selfish Man

 

[RustyRazor]

It's been 6 hours since the last selection.

Via list, @Hawkey Town 18 selects Pat Burns, Coach.

@MadArcand is up, I will send a PM.

 

[MadArcand]

Whalers select Dave Andreychuk, LW

 

[Voight]

Ice Rays select Defensemen #51 Brian "Soupy" Campbell

 

[VanIslander]

No one has milked more of a career out of a single play than Campbell did.

 

[ImporterExporter]

@TheDevilMadeMe has until 10:47 AM

 

[Elvis P]

The Jim Robson division appears tough. I thought Tocchet might be a 3rd liner, but I like Nabby's 3rd line better. Good luck all!

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

It's been 6 hours since the last selection.

Via list, @Hawkey Town 18 selects Pat Burns, Coach.

@MadArcand is up, I will send a PM.

Thanks for announcing my pick. One advantage of building a defensive minded team is that you have a lot more coaching options available to you. Burns should love the Shamrocks core of Doug Harvey, Frank Boucher, and Henri Richard. The Shamrocks also feature 11 players that have worn the "C" at some point in their careers, which should make things a little easier on Burns.

Burns has won the Jack Adams award 3 times (each with a different team).

Full Adams Record: 1, 1, 1, 3, 4, 6, 8

Burns has won 1 Stanley Cup in 2003 with NJ, made the Finals in 1989 with Montreal, and took Toronto to the Conference Finals in 1993 + 1994

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

If you're good enough to play a defensive role for Canada in 3 best-on-best tournaments (4 if you include the 2005 World Championships during the full lockout season), you're good enough to be a bottom 6er in the ATD

I'll pick Patrick Marleau, LW/C

Gives me a really versatile bottom 6 that is strong at both ends of the ice:

Marty Pavelich - Anze Kopitar - Tony Amonte
Patrick Marleau - Phil Watson - Ed Westfall

With the ability to swap wingers between the 3rd and 4th lines, depending on if there is an opposing winger worth checking (like Gordie Howe or Bobby Hull - both in my division).

 

[tinyzombies]

If you're good enough to play a defensive role for Canada in 3 best-on-best tournaments (4 if you include the 2005 World Championships during the full lockout season), you're good enough to be a bottom 6er in the ATD

I'll pick Patrick Marleau, LW/C

Gives me a really versatile bottom 6 that is strong at both ends of the ice:

Marty Pavelich - Anze Kopitar - Tony Amonte
Patrick Marleau - Phil Watson - Ed Westfall

With the ability to swap wingers between the 3rd and 4th lines, depending on if there is an opposing winger worth checking (like Gordie Howe or Bobby Hull - both in my division).

I was going to take him but literally before I refreshed changed my mind so I ain't mad.

Vladimir Kostka - Coach

Led Czechoslovakia's national team to a gold medal at the 1972 World Ice Hockey Championships, multiple silver and bronze medals at the following World Championships, and a bronze medal at the 1968 Winter Olympics.[5] The gold medal win at the 1972 World Championships halted the Soviet Union's record for most consecutive World Championship wins at nine.[1]

Kostka is considered to be the inventor of the contemporary defensive ice hockey strategy called left wing lock.[6][7][8] The technique involved moving the left wingers beside the defensmen, creating an obstacle in the middle zone.[8] This technique was used by the Czechoslovakia national team during the World Championships[8] and later by Scotty Bowman with the Detroit Red Wings in the National Hockey League.[6][9]

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Marleau is probably who I would've picked to complete my 4th line had I not decided to get Pat Burns as my coach. I just felt I couldn't risk playing the waiting game on a coach any longer.

 

[Professor What]

Going for another powerplay presence at left wing, the Gallifrey TARDIS will select Rick Nash!

 

[Elvis P]

Can VI get Marleau into the HoH Top 200 Project? I forgot who loves Francis in here, but he made #120.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Can VI get Marleau into the HoH Top 200 Project? I forgot who loves Francis in here, but he made #120.

Francis consistently going multiple spots over Delvecchio is one of those head scratcher things about the HOH projects that I've just learned to accept.

 

[Dreakmur]

Going for another powerplay presence at left wing, the Gallifrey TARDIS will select Rick Nash!

Excellent bottom 6 scorer, but he's more of an ES scorer than PP.

 

[Professor What]

Excellent bottom 6 scorer, but he's more of an ES scorer than PP.

Well, he once led the NHL in power play goals, and 29% of his career points are on the power play. I think he'll handle the role just fine.

 

[Dreakmur]

Well, he once led the NHL in power play goals, and 29% of his career points are on the power play. I think he'll handle the role just fine.

29% sounds good until you know that the average is closer to 35%

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Not on-duty today... but lots of stacked medical-appointment action for me and the patient.

I'm going to once again show my weakness- perhaps to a fault- for Character Men by selecting Norris-winner, Messier-winner and automatic A candidate Mark Giordano

Pm to @BenchBrawl

 

[Professor What]

29% sounds good until you know that the average is closer to 35%

Yeah, I'm pretty much realizing that I'm screwed with the roster I have. This is far, far more in depth than I ever could have imagined, and it's becoming very frustrating at this point. I have no real power play threat on the left side, at either forward or defense, and I'm even less confident in the potential penalty kill that I have. I'm glad I tried this once, and I'm going to see it through, but I'm thinking more and more that I'm likely to be a one and done at the ATD.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Not on-duty today... but lots of stacked medical-appointment action for me and the patient.

I'm going to once again show my weakness- perhaps to a fault- for Character Men by selecting Norris-winner, Messier-winner and automatic A candidate Mark Giordano

Pm to @BenchBrawl

Really good pick. When I picked Beck, it was between him and Giordano. I picked Beck because I felt like it would be easier to find a defensive partner for him, since Giordano probably needs a physical guy, and there really aren't that many physical RDs in this range.

 

[Professor What]

Yeah, I'm pretty much realizing that I'm screwed with the roster I have. This is far, far more in depth than I ever could have imagined, and it's becoming very frustrating at this point. I have no real power play threat on the left side, at either forward or defense, and I'm even less confident in the potential penalty kill that I have. I'm glad I tried this once, and I'm going to see it through, but I'm thinking more and more that I'm likely to be a one and done at the ATD.

I want to make sure about something. I just realized how this could have come across as complaining, and I don't mean it that way. I want to clarify that I'm just saying there's an intensity to this that, barring something that flips my frame of thought, I'm coming to the conclusion simply isn't for me.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Yeah, I'm pretty much realizing that I'm screwed with the roster I have. This is far, far more in depth than I ever could have imagined, and it's becoming very frustrating at this point. I have no real power play threat on the left side, at either forward or defense, and I'm even less confident in the potential penalty kill that I have. I'm glad I tried this once, and I'm going to see it through, but I'm thinking more and more that I'm likely to be a one and done at the ATD.

You're not screwed in the least. This is an in depth exercise but honestly, there aren't THAT many people who go balls to the wall with every aspect. I've voiced my displeasure (relative) at how mathematical the entire process has become, and that was greatly borne out of the VsX and other formulas brought forth 6, 7, 8 years ago. Those things are great barometers but not the end all, be all. Research goes a long way beyond number crunching.

Take it from someone who over analyzed this thing to death, and got so wrapped up in trying to win, it's best to abandon that line of thinking.

Just have fun with it. There is no right or wrong way to build. At the end of the day if you're having a good time, finding new information on players, learning about the history of the game, everything else is gravy.

You've done a great job thus far. Better than I probably did haha. You're picking on time, contributing to the discussion and have a more advanced knowledge of this arena than I did in 2014.

Don't get discouraged bud. You're doing a fantastic job!

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Now that they are all picked, I figure I might as well post my "top 100 NHL defensemen of all-time" ballot that I sent in for the THN article.

Note that we were specifically instructed that projecting out active players a few years was allowed, so I figured everyone else would do it, so I should as well, for consistency. So some of the active players might look a little off (for example, if Subban keeps sucking, he'd probably be dropped a bit, as his ranking assumes he adds a little value after 2020).

So here's my top 100 list as of Spring 2020, with a year of two of projection for active players.

1. Bobby Orr
2. Doug Harvey
3. Raymond Bourque
4. Nicklas Lidstrom
5. Eddie Shore
6. Red Kelly
7. Denis Potvin
8. Larry Robinson
9. Chris Chelios
10. King Clancy
11. Paul Coffey
12. Brad Park
13. Pierre Pilote
14. Sprague Cleghorn
15. Scott Stevens
16. Chris Pronger
17. Zdeno Chara
18. Earl Seibert
19. Tim Horton
20. Al MacInnis
21. Borje Salming
22. Duncan Keith
23. Bill Gadsby
24. Brian Leetch
25. Erik Karlsson
26. Dit Clapper
27. Drew Doughty
28. Eddie Gerard
29. Bill Quackenbush
30. Mark Howe
31. Ivan “Ching” Johnson
32. Serge Savard
33. Jack Stewart
34. Scott Niedermayer
35. Guy Lapointe
36. Marcel Pronovost
37. Jacques Laperriere
38. Ebbie Goodfellow
39. Victor Hedman
40. Rod Langway
41. Jean-Claude Tremblay
42. Lionel Conacher
43. Shea Weber
44. Rob Blake
45. Georges “Buck” Boucher
46. Carl Brewer
47. Albert “Babe” Seibert
48. Emile “Butch” Bouchard
49. Ken Reardon
50. Art Coulter
51. Tom Johnson
52. Harry Cameron
53. Sylvio Mantha
54. Allan Stanley
55. Doug Wilson
56. Larry Murphy
57. Ryan Suter
58. Fern Flaman
59. Harry Howell
60. Bill White
61. Jimmy Thomson
62. Alex Pietrangelo
63. Herb Gardiner
64. Pat Stapleton
65. Roman Josi
66. Eric Desjardins
67. Lionel Hitchman
68. Derian Hatcher
69. Brad McCrimmon
70. John Carlson
71. Sergei Zubov
72. Hap Day
73. Jack Crawford
74. Sergei Gonchar
75. Kris Letang
76. Brent Burns
77. Doug Mohns
78. Walter “Babe” Pratt
79. Mervyn “Red” Dutton
80. Cy Wentworth
81. P.K. Subban
82. Gus Mortson
83. Bob Goldham
84. Mark Giordano
85. Elmer “Moose” Vasko
86. Jim Neilson
87. Bob Baun
88. William “Flash” Hollett
89. Dan Boyle
90. Jim Schoenfeld
91. Barry Beck
92. Mike Ramsey
93. Kevin Lowe
94. Leo Boivin
95. Vladimir Konstantinov
96. Terry Harper
97. Phil Housley
98. George “Red” Horner
99. Ehrhardt “Ott” Heller
100. Leo Reise, Jr

 

[rmartin65]

I want to make sure about something. I just realized how this could have come across as complaining, and I don't mean it that way. I want to clarify that I'm just saying there's an intensity to this that, barring something that flips my frame of thought, I'm coming to the conclusion simply isn't for me.

I think it is only as intense as you make it; I look as it as a way to learn more about hockey while being able to creatively interact with what I am learning. At the end of the day, only one person wins every year, so I don't make that my focus.

You have to do right by you, but I hope you decide to become a regular ATDer.

Also, I think your PP is better than you think. You can PM me if you want, or you can go to the help thread for additional/more in depth opinions.

 

[Professor What]

You're not screwed in the least. This is an in depth exercise but honestly, there aren't THAT many people who go balls to the wall with every aspect. I've voiced my displeasure (relative) at how mathematical the entire process has become, and that was greatly borne out of the VsX and other formulas brought forth 6, 7, 8 years ago. Those things are great barometers but not the end all, be all. Research goes a long way beyond number crunching.

Take it from someone who over analyzed this thing to death, and got so wrapped up in trying to win, it's best to abandon that line of thinking.

Just have fun with it. There is no right or wrong way to build. At the end of the day if you're having a good time, finding new information on players, learning about the history of the game, everything else is gravy.

You've done a great job thus far. Better than I probably did haha. You're picking on time, contributing to the discussion and have a more advanced knowledge of this arena than I did in 2014.

Don't get discouraged bud. You're doing a fantastic job!

I do appreciate that. I have had some fun with it. It also helps to hear someone else say they've overanalyzed it and stuck with it, because I overanalyze everything. I guess my problem is that I don't know how to not throw myself in pedal to the metal with something that interests me, not to mention that I tend to be way too self-critical. I guess maybe I should see how I feel after this is over and I've had some breathing room.