ATD 2010, Part III

[jarek]

We're going a little off the wall here to select LW/RW, Dany Heatley. You'd be hard pressed to find a better goal scorer since 2003. Among active skaters, he ranks third in goals per game, and he's a real stud on the power play.

One of the complaints about our team is not putting Mikita with some quality players. Well, here you go:

Heatley - Mikita - McDonald

We're no longer going to line match our first line with other first lines for what should be obvious reasons, but this line should be passable defensively and score a good amount of goals.

And credit to Dreakmur for this on Heatley:

Took me while to get there, so I'll save you some time....

2003 World Championship --- All-Star, 2nd in goals, and 6th in points
2004 World Championship --- Best Forward, All-Star, 1st in goals, and 1st in points
2008 World Championship --- Best Forward, All-Star, 1st in goals, 1st in points, and 3rd in assists
2009 World Championship --- 3rd in goals and 6th in points
2010 Olympics --- 2nd in goals and 6th in points

And I'll PM Zamboni.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

George Hay went at 446 last time. Curious that you traded up to get him now, but hay (i mean hey), you got your guy.

 

[jarek]

Update 3.

The Mooseheads are pleased to select C/LW, Billy Burch and LW, Patrick Elias.

...and we have a trade to announce:

To Kimberly: Patrick Elias + 12th (360)

To Halifax: Vvladimir Konstantinov +21st

To the Minnesota Fighting Saints: 351 + 430
To the Kimberley Dynamiters: Markus Naslund (picked 341st) + 521

Johnny Engine's 342(12th) and 439(15th) are going to Dreakmur for his for 347(12th) and 407(14th).

335.. Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads - Billy Burch, C/LW
336. Mr. Bugg - Kimberley Dynamiters - Patrik Elias, LW (originally Stalberg's pick)
337. nik jr - Team Latvia - Helmut Balderis, RW
338. Rzeznik - Nova Scotia Voyageurs - Bobby Rousseau, RW
339. hungryhungryhippy - Vancouver Maroons - Don Luce, C
340. chaosrevolver - Montreal Shamrocks - Tommy Dunderdale, C
341. Mr. Bugg - Kimberley Dynamiters - Markus Naslund (originally Nalyd Psycho's pick)
342. Dreakmur - McGuire's Monsters - George Hay (originally Johnny Engine's pick)
343... jareklajkosz & seventieslord - Regina Pats - Dany Heatley, LW/RW
344. Zamboni Mania - Quebec Nordiques - on the clock

 

[Dreakmur]

George Hay went at 446 last time. Curious that you traded up to get him now, but hay (i mean hey), you got your guy.

I knew 70s/Jarek were taking a LW, and I didn't want to risk losing Hay.

Point-wise and style-wise, it appears that George Hay is very comparable to a guy like Syd Howe. Hay actually has a much more impressive all-star record that Howe.

 

[seventieslord]

Hay is underrated. Learning last draft that he was a good backchecker was a major breakthrough. I am surprised that he went this high, but glad we had dreak freaked out enough to trade up

It's easy to brush off his numbers in the NHL, but his first three NHL years were the deadest of the dead puck eras, and as Dreak showed, he was a top-20 scorer, however much value you place on that.

Dreak, I gotta ask, where'd you get these consolidated figures from? I can see how in 1922 with the WCHL being one of three leagues his 4th is not a top-10, and I can see in 1923 how his 3rd in the WCHL becomes an 8th overall. And the 5th in 1926 becomes a 9th. And the 9th in 1925 falls off. But why does a 3rd in 1924 equate to a consolidated 3rd?

I knew 70s/Jarek were taking a LW, and I didn't want to risk losing Hay.

Point-wise and style-wise, it appears that George Hay is very comparable to a guy like Syd Howe. Hay actually has a much more impressive all-star record that Howe.

There are definitely mitigating circumstances surrounding Howe's all-star record, and Howe's true value is much more accurately reflected in his hart votes.

I'd definitely take Howe's 0-2-6-8-9, 0-2-5-7-8 in a later era with better competition and less uncertainty, than Hay's 0-1-2-4-7, 0-2-5-5-6. Without a doubt.

In the 340s though, Hay is a better value, and he's very underrated.

 

[seventieslord]

335.. Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads - Billy Burch, C/LW
336. Mr. Bugg - Kimberley Dynamiters - Patrik Elias, LW (originally Stalberg's pick)
337. nik jr - Team Latvia - Helmut Balderis, RW
338. Rzeznik - Nova Scotia Voyageurs - Bobby Rousseau, RW
339. hungryhungryhippy - Vancouver Maroons - Don Luce, C
340. chaosrevolver - Montreal Shamrocks - Tommy Dunderdale, C
341. Mr. Bugg - Kimberley Dynamiters - Markus Naslund (originally Nalyd Psycho's pick)
342. Dreakmur - McGuire's Monsters - George Hay (originally Johnny Engine's pick)
343... jareklajkosz & seventieslord - Regina Pats - Dany Heatley, LW/RW
344. Zamboni Mania - Quebec Nordiques - on the clock

I really like how you keep the last few completed picks in your updates. Makes the draft much easier to follow when waking up in the morning or otherwise being gone for more than a few hours.

 

[jarek]

I really like how you keep the last few completed picks in your updates. Makes the draft much easier to follow when waking up in the morning or otherwise being gone for more than a few hours.

I'm keeping track of every pick and trade made since VI's last update.

 

[seventieslord]

We've very pleased to get Heatley. He was perhaps the best goal scorer on the board.

BM67's "vs. #2" numbers include a "H3" column which is the sum of a player's three highest years as percentages of the #2 scorer. Heatley's best 3 are 1.00, 0.93 and 0.88 for a sum of 2.81. Among other LWs I'm in the process of studying, this peak goalscoring dominance places him just behind John LeClair (2.94), Rick Martin (2.86) and Markus Naslund (2.83) and just ahead of Ilya Kovalchuk and Steve Shutt.

Michel Goulet, Keith Tkachuk, Kevin Stevens, Brendan Shanahan and Paul Kariya (ranging from 2.41 to 2.64) also eat Heatley's dust as far as best 3 goal scoring seasons go.

The next tier of LWs I studied includes guys like Dumart, Elias, Sid Smith, and Barber. (2.19-2.33)

After that, there is Bun Cook,Noble, Propp and Prentice. (1.90-2.00)

And way down lower, Bert Olmstead. (1.25)

Which brings me to Prentice.

I am pretty comfortable with where Prentice falls in as a goal scorer; Propp is well-accepted as a top-6 player, and Cook and Noble are complementary first liners just like I wanted Prentice to be. I think this metric is actually disadvantageous to him as well, since he peaked at the worst possible time for top-2 goalscorers (Richard, Howe, Hull, Mahovlich)

His best 3 seasons for assists are actually in the top half of the 28 LWs I analyzed. Olmstead Runs away with that one. Then Naslund and Thompson. Noble and Kariya form the next tier.

After that you have Elias, Shanahan, Stevens, Prentice, Cook, Kovalchuk, LeClair, Propp, and Smith bunched together.

Barber, Goulet, Dumart, Tkachuk, and Shutt form the next tier.

And then Rick Martin is way down at the bottom.

I didn't mention any undrafted players, but I studied about 7 of those in there, and if any of them were any better than Heatley I'd have taken them over him.

 

[seventieslord]

Correction:

Earlier on in this thread I was pointing out some reasons why Gump Worsley was not in the same class as a few other goalies. I pointed out Hart voting. Due to a one-time misspelling of his name in my files, I missed the time he was 3rd in Hart voting, 1957. I don't feel his awards record is more impressive than the others, but that certainly helps. I just didn't want to post anything incorrect or misleading.

 

[arrbez]

Correction:

Earlier on in this thread I was pointing out some reasons why Gump Worsley was not in the same class as a few other goalies. I pointed out Hart voting. Due to a one-time misspelling of his name in my files, I missed the time he was 3rd in Hart voting, 1957. I don't feel his awards record is more impressive than the others, but that certainly helps. I just didn't want to post anything incorrect or misleading.

I'm seeing it as 1956. There you go misleading people again

 

[jarek]

I'm seeing it as 1956. There you go misleading people again

Ah, yes, 1955-56. Beliveau won it and Sloan was second that year.

 

[Johnny Engine]

I'm heading out, but my list is in, and hasn't changed.
Have fun.

 

[VanIslander]

Nordiques draft Pat Verbeek.

He is the only NHLer to both score 500+ NHL goals and garner 2500+ PIMs. He had 11 seasons of 50+ points and 4 seasons of 82 or more points. He is an agitator extrordinaire. And nobody works harder.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

I'm here, give me 20-30 minutes and I'll make my pick.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

With their next selection in the 2010 ATD, the Malmo Redhawks are happy to select D Barclay Plager.

4x NHL All-Star Game Particiant
231 career points
#8 retired by St. Louis Blues

He will be on our 2nd pairing with Babe Pratt.

 

[jarek]

The Mooseheads are pleased to select C/LW, Billy Burch and LW, Patrick Elias.

...and we have a trade to announce:

To Kimberly: Patrick Elias + 12th (360)

To Halifax: Vvladimir Konstantinov +21st

To the Minnesota Fighting Saints: 351 + 430
To the Kimberley Dynamiters: Markus Naslund (picked 341st) + 521

Johnny Engine's 342(12th) and 439(15th) are going to Dreakmur for his for 347(12th) and 407(14th).

335.. Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads - Billy Burch, C/LW
336. Mr. Bugg - Kimberley Dynamiters - Patrik Elias, LW (originally Stalberg's pick)
337. nik jr - Team Latvia - Helmut Balderis, RW
338. Rzeznik - Nova Scotia Voyageurs - Bobby Rousseau, RW
339. hungryhungryhippy - Vancouver Maroons - Don Luce, C
340. chaosrevolver - Montreal Shamrocks - Tommy Dunderdale, C
341. Mr. Bugg - Kimberley Dynamiters - Markus Naslund (originally Nalyd Psycho's pick)
342. Dreakmur - McGuire's Monsters - George Hay (originally Johnny Engine's pick)
343... jareklajkosz & seventieslord - Regina Pats - Dany Heatley, LW/RW
344. Zamboni Mania - Quebec Nordiques - Pat Verbeek, RW
345. Billy_Shoe1721 - Malmo Redhawks - Barclay Plager, D
346. EagleBelfour - Detroit Falcons - on the clock
347. Johnny Engine - St. John's Fog Devils (originally Dreakmur's pick)
348. DoMakc - Green Bay Gamblers
349. jareklajkosz & seventieslord - Regina Pats
350. Velociraptor - California Golden Seals
351. Nalyd Psycho - Minnesota Fighting Saints (originally Mr. Bugg's pick)
352. arrbez - Inglewood Jacks
353.. Bobby Ryan Getzlaf - Detroit Vipers
354. Chigurh - Battle Creek Battalion
355. Hedberg aka ALB & vancityluongo - Tidewater Sharks
356. raleh - Springfield Indians
357. TheDevilMadeMe - New Jersey Swamp Devils
358. markrander87 - Chief De Laval
359. Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs
360. Mr. Bugg - Kimberley Dynamiters (originally Stalberg's pick)

 

[Leafs Forever]

You should really clarify that it's 4 x NHL all-star game participant. 4 time NHL all-star is misleading.

With our 12th round selection, McGuire’s Monsters are very pleased to select a very well-rounded player to play on our second line. This man brings speed, scoring, playmaking, work ethic, and classy leadership. Please welcome…..



George Hay!!!

Awards and Achievements:
4 x WCHL First Team All-Star (1922, 1923, 1924, 1926)
2 x NHL First Team All-Star (1927, 1928)

Detroit Falcons’ Team Captain
Served in both World Wars!!

Hart Voting – 4th(1928)
Lady Byng Voting – 2nd(1928), 3rd(1929), 5th(1930)

Scoring:
NHL Points – 13th(1927), 3rd(1928), 10th(1929), 18th(1930)
NHL Goals – 18th(1927), 5th(1928), 17th(1929)
NHL Assists – 8th(1927), 3rd(1928), 8th(1929)

WCHL Points – 4th(1922), 3rd(1923), 3rd(1924), 9th(1925), 5th(1926)
WCHL Goals – 4th(1922), 2nd(1923), 3rd(1924), 8th(1925), 5th(1926)
WCHL Assists – 3rd(1922), 7th(1923), 4th(1924), 3rd(1926)

Consolidated Points – 8th(1923), 3rd(1924), 9th(1926)
Consolidated Goals – 9th(1922), 6th(1923),9th(1924)
Consolidated Assists – 5th(1924), 5th(1926)

Complete Top-10s
Points – 3rd(1924), 3rd(1928), 8th(1923), 9th(1926), 10th(1929)
Goals – 5th(1928), 6th(1923), 9th(1922), 9th(1924)
Assists – 3rd(1928), 5th(1924), 5th(1926), 8th(1927), 8th(1929)

I did not expect him to go too soon. I was looking at him too.

 

[jarek]

The latest update I posted now also reflects the recent trades as well. If I missed any trades, feel free to repost the list.

 

[EagleBelfour]

So I'm up?

 

[BillyShoe1721]

So I'm up?

Yeah, I sent you a PM didn't I?

 

[EagleBelfour]

With our 12th selection, the 346th overall in this year All-Time Draft, the Detroit Falcons are extremely please to select Monsieur Roy Thomas Worters

I thought last draft they were two steals in goals: Tiny Thompson and Roy Worters. Since I miss on Thompson, I just couldn't miss on Worters. In my opinion, he's just as good as Worsley, Hainsworth and Vézina and a notch over Giacomin and Lumley among others.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Yeah, I sent you a PM didn't I?

you indeed sent it, sorry!

EDIT: I would like to trade up to get a certain player. Anyone feeling like trading down 20 or so spots?

 

[seventieslord]

With our 12th selection, the 346th overall in this year All-Time Draft, the Detroit Falcons are extremely please to select Monsieur Roy Thomas Worters

I thought last draft they were two steals in goals: Tiny Thompson and Roy Worters. Since I miss on Thompson, I just couldn't miss on Worters. In my opinion, he's just as good as Worsley, Hainsworth and Vézina and a notch over Giacomin and Lumley among others.

In my opinion, too.

I even have him a notch higher than that, up there with Gardiner in the fringes of my top-100.


oh, and Johnny Engine selects Ken Morros. Someone please PM the next guy.

 

[jarek]

I'm assuming that is Ken Morrow.. anyways, PM'ing DoMak.

 

[jarek]

The Mooseheads are pleased to select C/LW, Billy Burch and LW, Patrick Elias.

...and we have a trade to announce:

To Kimberly: Patrick Elias + 12th (360)

To Halifax: Vvladimir Konstantinov +21st

To the Minnesota Fighting Saints: 351 + 430
To the Kimberley Dynamiters: Markus Naslund (picked 341st) + 521

Johnny Engine's 342(12th) and 439(15th) are going to Dreakmur for his for 347(12th) and 407(14th).

335.. Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads - Billy Burch, C/LW
336. Mr. Bugg - Kimberley Dynamiters - Patrik Elias, LW (originally Stalberg's pick)
337. nik jr - Team Latvia - Helmut Balderis, RW
338. Rzeznik - Nova Scotia Voyageurs - Bobby Rousseau, RW
339. hungryhungryhippy - Vancouver Maroons - Don Luce, C
340. chaosrevolver - Montreal Shamrocks - Tommy Dunderdale, C
341. Mr. Bugg - Kimberley Dynamiters - Markus Naslund (originally Nalyd Psycho's pick)
342. Dreakmur - McGuire's Monsters - George Hay (originally Johnny Engine's pick)
343... jareklajkosz & seventieslord - Regina Pats - Dany Heatley, LW/RW
344. Zamboni Mania - Quebec Nordiques - Pat Verbeek, RW
345. Billy_Shoe1721 - Malmo Redhawks - Barclay Plager, D
346. EagleBelfour - Detroit Falcons - Roy Worters, G
347. Johnny Engine - St. John's Fog Devils - Ken Morrow, D (originally Dreakmur's pick)
348. DoMakc - Green Bay Gamblers - on the clock
349. jareklajkosz & seventieslord - Regina Pats
350. Velociraptor - California Golden Seals
351. Nalyd Psycho - Minnesota Fighting Saints (originally Mr. Bugg's pick)
352. arrbez - Inglewood Jacks
353.. Bobby Ryan Getzlaf - Detroit Vipers
354. Chigurh - Battle Creek Battalion
355. Hedberg aka ALB & vancityluongo - Tidewater Sharks
356. raleh - Springfield Indians
357. TheDevilMadeMe - New Jersey Swamp Devils
358. markrander87 - Chief De Laval
359. Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs
360. Mr. Bugg - Kimberley Dynamiters (originally Stalberg's pick)