TSN: Arpon Basu on Bergevin's presser.

[417]

Promise? Why is that what you're looking forward to?

I was being facetious...

I'd be surprised if the Habs set some type of futility record next year, but I suppose anything is possible.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I was being facetious...

I'd be surprised if the Habs set some type of futility record next year, but I suppose anything is possible.

They did this year, were you surprised?

 

[417]

They did this year, were you surprised?

Yes...i'd be even more surprised if it happened back-to-back years.

 

[Habs Icing]

I was being facetious...

I'd be surprised if the Habs set some type of futility record next year, but I suppose anything is possible.

Did you listen to the interview? Anyway if you look at this man's record you'll realize the trend is downwards. The more he worked on making it his players and his team the worse the record has become. A 21st and a 28th finish the last three years.

 

[417]

Did you listen to the interview? Anyway if you look at this man's record you'll realize the trend is downwards. The more he worked on making it his players and his team the worse the record has become. A 21st and a 28th finish the last two years.

If I look at his record, the trend I see is that bad years have been followed by very good years.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Yes...i'd be even more surprised if it happened back-to-back years.

I wouldn't be. There hasn't been a shift in philosophy, the same 'brains' is behind the operation and I think the situation here has gotten more toxic.

Bergevin has probably hurt the attitude/demeanor of the club by throwing his team under the bus and absolving himself of most responsibility (again).

Outside of him getting lucky in the lottery and winning the Tavares sweepstakes, this team is going to be largely the same next year except maybe closer to the cap when they panic and overpay someone like Bozak to play C on the team.

It will obviously be dependent on how other teams fare in the off-season as well.. the only thing that could save them from not being this bad again next season, without the lottery wins and sweepstakes win.. would be Price returning back to his Vezina form, which I think is a gigantic stretch when your defense is as massively flawed as the Habs defense is.

If Buffalo comes together, which is always a big if, that's some points that they are not going to easily get next year.. they will still feed on Ottawa and Detroit.

 

[Habs Icing]

Not to mention - be proactive about acquiring one.

I'll give him some benefit of the doubt when it comes to acquiring a center, no doubt it's difficult, especially when teams know you're desperate for one. But 6-7yrs is a very long time, one isn't going to fall in your lap a la Byron waiver claim.

It's going to take an accumulation of assets and some luck - but he had to try to find a way to provoke that.

Nashville two years ago were as desperate if not more desperate than us and they didn't get one center, they didn't get two centers, no, they got three centers. In two years three centers. Meanwhile our Idiot got a 3rd line center and played him as a #1 last year and then decided to trade away a blue chip prospect for a winger with THAT attitude MB mentioned and then played him at center.

 

[WeThreeKings]

If I look at his record, the trend I see is that bad years have been followed by very good years.

Is a very good year, a year in which you have to fire a coach to stop a gigantic spiral like the one you had the previous year?

Trying to say last year was a very good year when they had to fire a coach.. I find that to be a stretch. It's two terrible years and a bad year in the last three, with the year before the collapse being a good year only because of Price's ridiculousness.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The knives are starting to come out more and more. I honestly believe Bergevin would've been fired by now if he didn't get that long extension. Molson knows it's a sunk cost and has to deal with it for at least another year.

He probably would've been fired last year if he hadn't gotten that extension a while back... Molson must (and should be) kicking himself for that boneheaded move.

 

[417]

I wouldn't be. There hasn't been a shift in philosophy, the same 'brains' is behind the operation and I think the situation here has gotten more toxic.

While all of this is true - I expect players on this team, the majority of which all had down years, to bounce back to their norm somewhat. That should eliminate any potential futility record IMO.

Bergevin has probably hurt the attitude/demeanor of the club by throwing his team under the bus and absolving himself of most responsibility (again).

Bergevin has taken accountability numerous times the last 48hrs...like I've been saying the last 2 days, accountability is not the problem here. I don't think he's absolved himself of anything, he can't even if he tries.

I think there's way too much focus on every word he's said in press conferences or radio bits the last 48hrs...really, who cares what he says, we all know that what he says most often times has very little to do with what he does.

Personally I have more of an issue with things he didn't say, as opposed to anything he said.

Outside of him getting lucky in the lottery and winning the Tavares sweepstakes, this team is going to be largely the same next year except maybe closer to the cap when they panic and overpay someone like Bozak to play C on the team.

I don't expect the team will largely be the same next year...but then again, I never thought he'd play out the entire season with all that cap space, so who freaking knows.

It will obviously be dependent on how other teams fare in the off-season as well.. the only thing that could save them from not being this bad again next season, without the lottery wins and sweepstakes win.. would be Price returning back to his Vezina form, which I think is a gigantic stretch when your defense is as massively flawed as the Habs defense is.

Price returning to not even Vezina form, just average form, would go a long way (i'm sound like Bergevin here) but not only him, there's quite a few players who had down years and who have the ability to bounce back.

If Buffalo comes together, which is always a big if, that's some points that they are not going to easily get next year.. they will still feed on Ottawa and Detroit.

We'll see...in today's NHL, with teams trusting young players more and more, things aren't as predictable. You see more and more teams trending towards having young players add some freshness and enthusiasm to their lineups.

 

[WeThreeKings]

While all of this is true - I expect players on this team, the majority of which all had down years, to bounce back to their norm somewhat. That should eliminate any potential futility record IMO.


Bergevin has taken accountability numerous times the last 48hrs...like I've been saying the last 2 days, accountability is not the problem here. I don't think he's absolved himself of anything, he can't even if he tries.

I think there's way too much focus on every word he's said in press conferences or radio bits the last 48hrs...really, who cares what he says, we all know that what he says most often times has very little to do with what he does.


I don't expect the team will largely be the same next year...but then again, I never thought he'd play out the entire season with all that cap space, so who freaking knows.


Price returning to not even Vezina form, just average form, would go a long way (i'm sound like Bergevin here) but not only him, there's quite a few players who had down years and who have the ability to bounce back.


We'll see...in today's NHL, with teams trusting young players more and more, things aren't as predictable. You see more and more teams trending towards having young players add some freshness and enthusiasm to their lineups.

Which young players will come in next season? Maybe our top pick if we win the lottery, but that's iffy.. Jake Evans might make a debut early on.. but outside of that, we've seen the inclusion of Mete, Juulsen, Scherbak, McCarron, DLR, Hudon.. none of that freshness or enthusiasm did anything.

We will see how the off-season plays out.. but I know what Bergevin values and I know what pro scouts he has. He will not make this team better because he simply doesn't know how.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Folks, leave posters out of the discussion please.

 

[417]

Which young players will come in next season? Maybe our top pick if we win the lottery, but that's iffy.. Jake Evans might make a debut early on.. but outside of that, we've seen the inclusion of Mete, Juulsen, Scherbak, McCarron, DLR, Hudon.. none of that freshness or enthusiasm did anything.

I wasn't necessarily referring to the Habs...just responding to your post where you suggested that other than Buffalo perhaps improving, things should remain static as far as our division goes.

There's just no telling - last year the Senators made it to 1 goal of the Stanley Cup finals, this year they were worse than the Habs and their organization is actually in more disarray than the Habs (though mainstream media would never play it off that way - see last night's town hall led by Melnyuk & Dorion in Ottawa - you thought Molson/Bergevin press conference was bad?).

That's not to say that I expect some miracle turnaround...but that we can't always assume things will remain static because they never do.

Also, re: Mete, Juulsen, Scherbak, McCarron, DLR & Hudon...we're all still talking about players still developing, let's see where they're at in September/October.

We will see how the off-season plays out.. but I know what Bergevin values and I know what pro scouts he has. He will not make this team better because he simply doesn't know how.

Hard not to be pessimistic - well, I guess for you that comes naturally lol

But yes, Bergevin and his cronies don't exactly inspire confidence.

 

[habsfan909]

We are screwed next year. Face facts.
-We are not getting Tavares
-Less than 10% getting Dahlin
-Pleks is coming back to be the offensive saviour
-We still have Alzner, Benn, Schlemko on D which is disastrous

Our only true hope now is Price returns to all world and forces us into the playoffs but look at his true #'s the last 2 years and they are bad. Bottom half of starters in the league. So that would be another miracle.

 

[Kriss E]

Not to mention - be proactive about acquiring one.

I'll give him some benefit of the doubt when it comes to acquiring a center, no doubt it's difficult, especially when teams know you're desperate for one. But 6-7yrs is a very long time, one isn't going to fall in your lap a la Byron waiver claim.

It's going to take an accumulation of assets and some luck - but he had to try to find a way to provoke that.

Which makes using Galchenyuk on the wing all the more of a head scratcher.
I mean, even if they think he should be playing wing...Bergevin admitted that Drouin should not be playing center and in an ideal world, he's a winger. Well for fak's sake mate, why not simply use Galch at center if we are going to use someone who shouldn't even play there anyways???..

It is beyond bizarre how Bergevin thinks or rationalizes. No sense at all.

 

[JSR 56]

you guys are forgetting some key details:

if de la rose has the right attitude, he can be our #1 center who puts up 100pts and plays on both ends of the rink
if shlemko had the right attitude, we would be saying markov who?
if benn/alzner had the right attitude, we are talking about an impregnable force on the back end. might as well play with the goalie pulled
how many goals does price have? when was his last goal? needs an attitude adjustment. he needs to envision that goal, have the right focus and attitude and bam, a 50 goal scorer

 

[Andrei79]

Yes...i'd be even more surprised if it happened back-to-back years.

I wouldnt. The biggest risk factor for futility is past futility.

 

[Harry22]

Watching and listening to the PC, you could tell Molson will fire Bergevin if the team has a bad start in 2018-2019.

 

[groovejuice]

Is a very good year, a year in which you have to fire a coach to stop a gigantic spiral like the one you had the previous year?

Trying to say last year was a very good year when they had to fire a coach.. I find that to be a stretch. It's two terrible years and a bad year in the last three, with the year before the collapse being a good year only because of Price's ridiculousness.

The only reason last season was successful in the regular season, was the incredible start to the year. Ironically, that start was led at centre by the player who's not fit to be a centre.

Bergevin is truly the one who's not fit.

 

[Laurentide]

The bottom line is that he's had over half a ****ing decade to make this team better. He hasn't done that at all... he's made this team worse. Maybe the worst team I've ever seen this year. He has a thousand excuses on why he can't get a center. He has a thousand excuses on why signing his awful awful signings don't work out... When you keep getting worse and worse at your job, why would you keep that person around? It doesn't make any sense. It's not like the next guy can do much worse is it???

Yeah, the "trades are hard" excuse isn't going to wash, and even if you grant MB the premise that trades actually are, in fact, hard, it's still not a valid excuse. He may not have been a GM before but he'd been around in Chicago's front office long enough to know that this kind of job isn't easy (although I admit it's probably a bit easier in Chicago, a city that, unlike Montreal, players actually want to go to) The bottom line is this: he wanted the job. He interviewed for the job. He got the job. Now he needs to stop whining about how tough things are and just DO the damn job.

You need a #1 center, Marc. You've needed one since Day One. Friggin' find one and sign him. Now. I'm not saying it won't be hard; I'm saying that I don't care if it is or not. Just friggin' do it or quit so that we can hire someone who will.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

MB didn't spend like 10M this year, practically makes up for another 1st round loss.

Bergie failed at that too. Actual real salary expenditures were 70.6M. So he didn't save molson that much.

 

[Habs Icing]

[QUOTE="417, post: 144345429, member: 7753"

Bergevin has taken accountability numerous times the last 48hrs...like I've been saying the last 2 days, accountability is not the problem here. I don't think he's absolved himself of anything, he can't even if he tries.

.[/QUOTE]
Bergevin taking accountability is all lip service. PR told him to play that game. You can tell he doesn't mean it because every time a reporter starts discussing particulars MB comes up with excuses. The Melnick interview is a prime example of that.

 

[417]

[QUOTE="417, post: 144345429, member: 7753"

Bergevin has taken accountability numerous times the last 48hrs...like I've been saying the last 2 days, accountability is not the problem here. I don't think he's absolved himself of anything, he can't even if he tries.

.

Bergevin taking accountability is all lip service. PR told him to play that game. You can tell he doesn't mean it because every time a reporter starts discussing particulars MB comes up with excuses. The Melnick interview is a prime example of that.[/QUOTE]
well when you think about it...the very notion of a General Manager of a team showing up to answer questions as to why his team sucked this year, seems like an oxy moron.

The team sucked because his performance as GM sucked, obviously.

So yes, it is lip service

 

[Habs Icing]

well when you think about it...the very notion of a General Manager of a team showing up to answer questions as to why his team sucked this year, seems like an oxy moron.

The team sucked because his performance as GM sucked, obviously.

So yes, it is lip service

No, you're talking about it being redundant. I'm saying he's being disingenuous. He says it's his responsibility but have you heard him admitting to any mistake at the PC.

The players' attitude was bad from day one yet he doesn't admit to getting those players or to doing anything about it in September. If he saw the attitude was bad why didn't he resolve it when he saw it. Now he wants us to believe he'll fix it. A year later

The team needs two top centers but it's not his fault. Very few centers are moved. When you point out that a crapload of centers have been moved in the league since he took over he deflects your response by asking you to name them so he can give you excuses for each name you present.

You want to go on with more examples of him not taking responsibility. And when he says the buck stops with him he's not admiting most of what happened is his to own, he's telling you he's the big man who is going to resolve the problem. He's the hero who is going to come in and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. He's an effing poseur.

 

[Laurentide]

I don't need MB to accept blame for the problem. I just need the problem to get fixed. If he fixes it and demands to be recognized as the guy who fixed it, fine. Again I don't care so long as it gets fixed. There's a difference between blame and responsibility but people in positions of authority often have to accept responsibility for things which aren't necessarily their personal fault. That's why they get paid the big bucks, after all.

As a GM, perhaps not everything bad that's happened is MB's fault but everything is his responsibility to address and correct. The fact that he may not be directly to blame for some of it doesn't matter.

Molson, as team owner, doesn't score goals, block shots or decide on line combinations so it isn't his fault that the team didn't win. But he is still responsible for every decision his GM and coach make because he's the guy who hired them.

Neither Bergevin nor Molson (nor Julien, for that matter) made all of the mess. But it is on them to clean up that mess.