Around the NHL Discussion Part XV

[PiggySmalls]

NHLPA Players poll was pretty interesting. Confirms most still see Crosby as the best player. Schwartz came in 2nd for most underrated player. Ott came in 4th in assistant coach that will be next head coach.

NHLPA Player Poll 2017-18

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Interestingly enough, Tim Peel came in as the third best ref.

Wes MaCauley ran away with that one though. Almost 48%.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

NHLPA Players poll was pretty interesting. Confirms most still see Crosby as the best player. Schwartz came in 2nd for most underrated player. Ott came in 4th in assistant coach that will be next head coach.

NHLPA Player Poll 2017-18

Steve Ott next Blues Head Coach?

 

[PiggySmalls]

Steve Ott next Blues Head Coach?

Yeah that’s what I thought last year. I think he would be a top choice to be the Head Coach in San Antonio next season. If he does well over the next few years he might get his chance somewhere. I think he would be an excellent coach. When he was recovering from his Hamstring, he said he acted like a coach being in all different meetings talking to the players.

 

[Note Worthy]

Backes just got suspended for three games for essentially nothing. DoPS is kind of joke.

 

[MissouriMook]

Backes just got suspended for three games for essentially nothing. DoPS is kind of joke.

That's "nothing"? The replay I saw of it (granted it was from the behind-the-play camera) looked like he drove his shoulder right through Nielsen's jaw. I haven't seen the DoPS video yet with the explanation, but it can't help that he left his feet and picked high. That kind of hit is exactly what they should be trying to get out of the game.

 

[Note Worthy]

That's "nothing"? The replay I saw of it (granted it was from the behind-the-play camera) looked like he drove his shoulder right through Nielsen's jaw. I haven't seen the DoPS video yet with the explanation, but it can't help that he left his feet and picked high. That kind of hit is exactly what they should be trying to get out of the game.

From this angle it doesn't look like to me that Backes is specifically targeting Nielsen's head. Also, three games for someone who has never been suspended or fined? I thought it was a little excessive. We can agree to disagree I suppose.

 

[MissouriMook]

From this angle it doesn't look like to me that Backes is specifically targeting Nielsen's head. Also, three games for someone who has never been suspended or fined? I thought it was a little excessive. We can agree to disagree I suppose.

Agree to disagree is fine with me. My point was that he left his skates, or at a minimum "made himself bigger", to hit an opponent of similar height and primary contact was above the shoulders. He may not have been trying to pick the head, but the video makes it hard to defend the play. I've seen plenty worse not get suspended or get slapped on the wrist - I can't argue that. Still, I think that he deserved what he got, first time offender or not.

 

[Alklha]

Backes deserves to be suspended for that. He decided that he was going to hit Fransen no matter what, and because of that it turned into a bad hit. Fransen has laid the puck off long before Backes even turns his shoulder to make the check. When he realises he has taken a bad line, he looks to make any contact he can. That results in it being dangerous because in the process of turning into Fransen he is also raising himself up. Initial contact isn't the head, but it certainly got plenty of it. It's not malicious, it's just stupid.

The League should be suspending players for that.

DoPS is a joke though, because we'll continue to see worse hits than that get no punishment.

 

[Dbrownss]

So....Unless Calgary has to Bennett's, Sam looks like a Lumber Jack..........not sure how he can grow thst beard

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Anybody interested in getting Reavo back?

Poor guy got traded by the Pens to Vegas. From what I gather the Pens fan base was 50/50 on Ryan. They don’t think they need any muscle for the playoffs. Not sure how the Vegas fan base sees him.

Personally, I’d love to get him back. The Blues are mentally and physically weak. Ryan did a lot off the stat sheet to shore up their spine.

 

[Borderbluesfan]

Anybody interested in getting Reavo back?

Poor guy got traded by the Pens to Vegas. From what I gather the Pens fan base was 50/50 on Ryan. They don’t think they need any muscle for the playoffs. Not sure how the Vegas fan base sees him.

Personally, I’d love to get him back. The Blues are mentally and physically weak. Ryan did a lot off the stat sheet to shore up their spine.

I would have no problem bringing him back as a 4th liner. He brings a special skill set. He actually can skate and drive the net. Big upgrade over Thorburn.

 

[BlueDream]

I'd take Reaves back simply for the fact that he's a good locker room guy. I loved him when he was here but I do think Blues fans overrate his on-ice play. But, as a 13th or 14th forward, I certainly wouldn't complain about having him because it wouldn't hurt anything. This of course means we'd dump Thorbun at least to the minors or something.

As for the Backes suspension...I think it's terrible. Just shows how soft the game is getting, which is a shame. 3 years ago, nobody even bats an eye at that hit. Now any big hit at all is under the microscope. I hate it.

 

[Majorityof1]

As for the Backes suspension...I think it's terrible. Just shows how soft the game is getting, which is a shame. 3 years ago, nobody even bats an eye at that hit. Now any big hit at all is under the microscope. I hate it.

Its not any big hit, its any hit that is at or near the head. With the mounting evidence of the serious long-term effects of repeated head trauma, the NHL should be doing absolutely everything it can to eliminate all blows to the head. I say suspend anyone who hits someone's head, be it unintentional, intentional, weak,vicious, accidental, malicious or otherwise. These players play for our enjoyment, and while they do get paid very well, I am not so selfish to say they should suffer life-long mental health issues so I can enjoy a big hit now and again.

 

[BlueDream]

Its not any big hit, its any hit that is at or near the head. With the mounting evidence of the serious long-term effects of repeated head trauma, the NHL should be doing absolutely everything it can to eliminate all blows to the head. I say suspend anyone who hits someone's head, be it unintentional, intentional, weak,vicious, accidental, malicious or otherwise. These players play for our enjoyment, and while they do get paid very well, I am not so selfish to say they should suffer life-long mental health issues so I can enjoy a big hit now and again.

I disagree with this. Backes isn't targeting the dude's head at all. He just happens to be a taller player and his shoulder is at the same level as the guy's chin and he grazes it.

Accidental blows to the head should not be suspensions. This is exactly why the game is getting soft. A bigger player accidentally grazes a dude's chin and it's all the sudden a suspension now. Players don't even have to be head hunting anymore to get suspended. This is why players are now afraid to throw hits because oh my gosh, what if he accidentally gets a piece of the opposing player's face! And this is the result. Players who play scared and soft, and there's no emotion at all in the majority of games anymore.

And this is going to sound sinister but whatever. It's hockey. If you don't want to risk concussions in your life, don't play the game. Same goes with football, or UFC or any physical sport.

 

[Alklha]

I disagree with this. Backes isn't targeting the dude's head at all. He just happens to be a taller player and his shoulder is at the same level as the guy's chin and he grazes it.

Accidental blows to the head should not be suspensions. This is exactly why the game is getting soft. A bigger player accidentally grazes a dude's chin and it's all the sudden a suspension now. Players don't even have to be head hunting anymore to get suspended. This is why players are now afraid to throw hits because oh my gosh, what if he accidentally gets a piece of the opposing player's face! And this is the result. Players who play scared and soft, and there's no emotion at all in the majority of games anymore.

And this is going to sound sinister but whatever. It's hockey. If you don't want to risk concussions in your life, don't play the game. Same goes with football, or UFC or any physical sport.

You are making an argument for an otherwise legal hit. This wasn't. Backes was late, and it wasn't particularly close either. A late hit that makes significant head contact should be a suspension 100% of the time.

If Franzen had the puck when Backes hit him? I'd agree with you, it's part of the game. But if you make an illegal check that puts another player at risk, then you should be getting suspended.

 

[Note Worthy]

You are making an argument for an otherwise legal hit. This wasn't. Backes was late, and it wasn't particularly close either. A late hit that makes significant head contact should be a suspension 100% of the time.

If Franzen had the puck when Backes hit him? I'd agree with you, it's part of the game. But if you make an illegal check that puts another player at risk, then you should be getting suspended.

So they're not suspending him for the actual hit but rather the timing of the hit? That doesn't make sense to me.

If it's a late hit they have 2 minute penalty for that and that should be called. The suspension should be for the hit itself not the timing of it.

 

[Alklha]

So they're not suspending him for the actual hit but rather the timing of the hit? That doesn't make sense to me.

If it's a late hit they have 2 minute penalty for that and that should be called. The suspension should be for the hit itself not the timing of it.

No, they are suspending him after evaluating the entire incident. Incidents like this can't be split up and pick and choose what aspects are relevant.

Franzen was not eligible to be checked. The resulting check, legal or not, was dangerous. Backes created a dangerous situation, and injury, directly from an illegal action. Yeah, that's a suspension.

The arguments against a suspension here don't make any sense to me. The argument is that hockey is a contact sport and legal plays can sometimes result in bad outcomes. If that is the position, and the sport is so dangerous, then surely preventing players creating dangerous situations when they aren't legally allowed to should be a priority?

 

[Majorityof1]

I disagree with this. Backes isn't targeting the dude's head at all. He just happens to be a taller player and his shoulder is at the same level as the guy's chin and he grazes it.

Accidental blows to the head should not be suspensions. This is exactly why the game is getting soft. A bigger player accidentally grazes a dude's chin and it's all the sudden a suspension now. Players don't even have to be head hunting anymore to get suspended. This is why players are now afraid to throw hits because oh my gosh, what if he accidentally gets a piece of the opposing player's face! And this is the result. Players who play scared and soft, and there's no emotion at all in the majority of games anymore.

And this is going to sound sinister but whatever. It's hockey. If you don't want to risk concussions in your life, don't play the game. Same goes with football, or UFC or any physical sport.

There is a 2 inch difference in height, and that was not a graze. He made solid contact with the top of his jaw. A 2 inch height difference does not yield that solid of contact unless Backes is lifting up. And even if it was all due to height, so what? Taller players have certain advantages, this would just be a disadvantage. If players are less likely to take a risky hit that may result in an accidental head shot, so much the better. You can say, "Its hockey, deal with it" but that is not good for the long term outlook of the game. Right now, players that could play pro football are choosing non-contact sports to avoid head trauma. That will sap the talent from the game. When all the tall, fast wide receivers are playing basketball and all the QBs are playing baseball, will the NFL be content with the excuse, "head Trauma: it's just part of the sport". You say it won't happen but the number of kids who play pee-wee football and the like is down since the relevant studies on the effects of head trauma have come to light. Hockey and football are not all about hits. Even if hits were greatly diminished, the game would still have plenty of excitement. It wouldn't have as much excitement if all the good athletes played something safer.

 

[stl76]

I honestly thought that 3 games was a little much for the hit, especially considering Backes had ZERO prior history (no suspensions/fines/etc). The hit was late 100%, but didn't seem particularly predatory or violent IMO. The result was obviously bad and I expected a fine at least, maybe a game...but didn't think the DoPS would slap 3 games on this one.

At the end of the day tho, the most consistent thing about the DoPS decisions is the inconsistency.

 

[Bluesguru]

I thought Dorion wanted Thompson + 1st for Hoffman and Army said no because he didn't want to move any of the "big four".

That's what I heard too and if that's true, then IMO that was a big mistake on Army's part.

 

[simon IC]

That's what I heard too and if that's true, then IMO that was a big mistake on Army's part.

I respectfully disagree. We can't keep handing out our 1sts like Halloween candy. I would like to see how Thompson develops. I am cautiously optimistic so far. Hoffman is not an instant cure all.

 

[Bluesguru]

I respectfully disagree. We can't keep handing out our 1sts like Halloween candy. I would like to see how Thompson develops. I am cautiously optimistic so far. Hoffman is not an instant cure all.

I get what you're saying but how long are we going to wait for these guys to develop? I mean there should be some give and take here IMO. I mean what condition is Schwartz going to be in 3 years from now? And we're using up valuable contract time for guys like Tank and Petro. Do we want to fortify ourselves and build a stronger team now or do we play the waiting game and risk up and down results leading nowhere? I'm not saying get rid of all 4, but I think one or two can be dealt.

 

[Reality Czech]

I get what you're saying but how long are we going to wait for these guys to develop? I mean there should be some give and take here IMO. I mean what condition is Schwartz going to be in 3 years from now? And we're using up valuable contract time for guys like Tank and Petro. Do we want to fortify ourselves and build a stronger team now or do we play the waiting game and risk up and down results leading nowhere? I'm not saying get rid of all 4, but I think one or two can be dealt.

I guess this is more Blues talk than rest-of-NHL talk but I wonder if they still see Thompson as a possible center in the future. That could be one reason they are less willing to move him, until they fully see what he can do. I liked the edge he played with last night. If he can keep building on that, he can be a really good NHL player in the next couple of years. Definitely agree we could afford to move one, but which is the right one? Thomas seems to be the most valuable but it's a lot tougher to choose between the other 3. Can see reasonable arguments to keep all 3 (Kostin's power forward potential, Kyrou's playmaking ability, Thompson's size, shot and shifty hands), at least until we see a bit more of them. Tough spot to be in for sure.

 

[Stealth JD]

Really good column in the Athletic from Eric Duhatschek talking about how Francis' hands were tied financially in Carolina and now the new owner may be willing to spend money and start wheeling-and-dealing. Unfortunately, I don't see the Blues and Canes as good trade-partners unless Armstrong is ready to move on from JBo & Gunnarsson immediately. You've got to think the Blues' top-4 are locked-in long-term and the next two RHD (Schmaltz/Bortz) are good enough to keep their roster spots. Only 1 spot available on the NHL roster for next year, unless a major shake-up is coming.

Another think he mentions is the Hart race and team MVPs like Hall and MacKinnon, who've had incredible bounce-back years, just like Eric Staal. Which got me thinking about if there were any other struggling, talented guys somewhere capable of bouncing-back and becoming an impact top-liner. I know in the closing days of the deadline the Blues were rumored to be talking to Ottawa about Hoffman. But this summer depending on what the Sens budget (Karlsson) situation looks like, the Blues may end up redirecting those talks around Matt Duchene if they haven't found a better C-solution.