Around the NHL 5

[DRW204]

refuse to pay Ned or Hamilton in order to over-pay kotkaniemi for 2-3x his worth. and they're back in the metro, wouldn't surprise me if the miss the POs

 

[Jet]

An interesting question - did Montreal strategically make the correct decision to immediately utilize the proceeds of the KK offersheet and sign the best C replacement available in Dvorak ? I think a good case could be made that they might have been better served to simply secure a low cost C for this next season and essentially do a modest rebuild, using the 1st and 3rd from Carolina as leverage. The next draft is supposedly one of the stronger expected drafts in recent years and Montreal would benefit from at least 2 1st round picks and 2 3rd round picks. Might be especially exciting for their fans as well (I think the draft is hosted by Montreal)

I agree. I don't think they were making the playoffs even with kk so a quick rebuild was probably more logical. Bowne in that market I don't think Bergevin would survive without at least looking to win something from the situation.

That's the problem with being aGM. Good ones aren't so much looking at now, but the future. Fans and owners want immediate results. They can be put in an impossible no win situation

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

An interesting question - did Montreal strategically make the correct decision to immediately utilize the proceeds of the KK offersheet and sign the best C replacement available in Dvorak ? I think a good case could be made that they might have been better served to simply secure a low cost C for this next season and essentially do a modest rebuild, using the 1st and 3rd from Carolina as leverage. The next draft is supposedly one of the stronger expected drafts in recent years and Montreal would benefit from at least 2 1st round picks and 2 3rd round picks. Might be especially exciting for their fans as well (I think the draft is hosted by Montreal)

Don't disagree with all of that. The reset might be a good move. But that said, I like the Dvorak acquisition. I think he will be better in that 2C slot than KK would have been, at least for another year or two.

They could semi tank and at least get a lottery ticket with their own pick, but the Canes pick is probably pretty late. And 3rds are always late. They're 3rds.

But to circle around back to your idea, Habs seem to try to get into 'win now mode' every year. Every year they make a bunch of moves and they keep treading water. Habs fans are all impressed with their team having gone to the SCF, but they were never really that good a team. Even with Dvorak, they could miss the PO this year. So it comes down to the longer term value of Dvorak. Will he be worth more to the organization over the rest of his career than the player they would have taken with that pick? Hard to say at this point, but also consider the 2nd two years from now. I think Dvorak will need to step up his play to make this a longer term win for Habs.

 

[tbcwpg]

refuse to pay Ned or Hamilton in order to over-pay kotkaniemi for 2-3x his worth. and they're back in the metro, wouldn't surprise me if the miss the POs

I agree. I don't think they were making the playoffs even with kk so a quick rebuild was probably more logical. Bowne in that market I don't think Bergevin would survive without at least looking to win something from the situation.

That's the problem with being aGM. Good ones aren't so much looking at now, but the future. Fans and owners want immediate results. They can be put in an impossible no win situation

How do you have the Metro breaking down then? I think they haven't gone that far back that they're not making the playoffs. I can see them finishing 3rd there. They finished ahead of Tampa (who lost their entire 3rd line) and Florida last season, and I don't think Pittsburgh is that hot.

 

[DRW204]

Their goaltendingt doesn't instill any confidence for me.

Losing a quality goaltending is worse than losing a third line. I think

Idk if Id have them in the PO's or not Just saying it wouldn't surprise me if they miss.

How do you have the Metro breaking down then? I think they haven't gone that far back that they're not making the playoffs. I can see them finishing 3rd there. They finished ahead of Tampa (who lost their entire 3rd line) and Florida last season, and I don't think Pittsburgh is that hot.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Dvorak is only 24 and this teams ‘window’ still relies on Price... they can’t rebuild

Bergevin still has a first rounder - it’s not the end of the world

Dvorak will be 26 in February - but you are right about Price. Rightly or wrongly, Bergevin is trying to win while Price is still an above average goalie.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeah I was thinking a one year drop down the standings might do them some good. The issue is they have drafted pretty terribly for the most part under their current t management so maybe spending the picks isn't such a bad thing for that regime.

Look at the acquired column here! SMH

I count just 5 drafted players out of 24.

Jets have 13 drafted players out of 24.

 

[ecolad]

Don't disagree with all of that. The reset might be a good move. But that said, I like the Dvorak acquisition. I think he will be better in that 2C slot than KK would have been, at least for another year or two.

They could semi tank and at least get a lottery ticket with their own pick, but the Canes pick is probably pretty late. And 3rds are always late. They're 3rds.

But to circle around back to your idea, Habs seem to try to get into 'win now mode' every year. Every year they make a bunch of moves and they keep treading water. Habs fans are all impressed with their team having gone to the SCF, but they were never really that good a team. Even with Dvorak, they could miss the PO this year. So it comes down to the longer term value of Dvorak. Will he be worth more to the organization over the rest of his career than the player they would have taken with that pick? Hard to say at this point, but also consider the 2nd two years from now. I think Dvorak will need to step up his play to make this a longer term win for Habs.

My thinking is simply that the acquisition of Dvorak does not make a significant measureable difference to how the Habs will play/finish in the Atlantic this year. They over-acheived last year, have seemingly gotten weaker in the off season, and have major issues with the health of Weber and Price both. A year of thoughtful reflection on what they have and how best to reset/reload might have been the best decision, rather than striving to stay in "win now mode" with the Dvorak trade.

 

[snowkiddin]

One would assume he’s just saying that.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

My thinking is simply that the acquisition of Dvorak does not make a significant measureable difference to how the Habs will play/finish in the Atlantic this year. They over-acheived last year, have seemingly gotten weaker in the off season, and have major issues with the health of Weber and Price both. A year of thoughtful reflection on what they have and how best to reset/reload might have been the best decision, rather than striving to stay in "win now mode" with the Dvorak trade.

I believe that they have been in win now mode every single year with Bergevin - and his immediate predecessors too.

In the last 16 years they have drafted in the top 10 exactly 3 times. They took Galchenyuk 3rd OA in '12, Sergachev 9th OA in '16 and Kotkaniemi 3rd OA in '18. All 3 are now gone from the org, replaced by Domi who was himself traded (with a 3rd) for Josh Anderson, Drouin (for Serg + a 3rd) and now Dvorak (and some minor later pick swaps). They rarely draft good players (for the draft positions) and when they do, they don't keep them anyway.

Their most recent flub was Mailloux. Kid is now suspended indefinitely by the OHL. He hasn't even got a place to play to try to develop and redeem himself. Picking him should have been enough to get a GM fired on the spot.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

One would assume he’s just saying that.

So ......... In other words, this really was just a petty revenge move.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

How do you have the Metro breaking down then? I think they haven't gone that far back that they're not making the playoffs. I can see them finishing 3rd there. They finished ahead of Tampa (who lost their entire 3rd line) and Florida last season, and I don't think Pittsburgh is that hot.

If they don't make the PO it will be because of goaltending, or lack of it.

 

[tbcwpg]

Their goaltendingt doesn't instill any confidence for me.

Losing a quality goaltending is worse than losing a third line. I think

Idk if Id have them in the PO's or not Just saying it wouldn't surprise me if they miss.

If they don't make the PO it will be because of goaltending, or lack of it.

I guess the Leafs are going to be juggernauts then, because if the reason Carolina goes from 3rd overall in the NHL to not making the playoffs is missing Mrazek and having Andersen instead, then the Leafs upgrading Andersen to Mrazek must make them Cup contenders.

 

[surixon]

Look at the acquired column here! SMH
View attachment 463801
I count just 5 drafted players out of 24.

Jets have 13 drafted players out of 24.

Yup, they have drafted very poorly!

 

[DRW204]

I guess the Leafs are going to be juggernauts then, because if the reason Carolina goes from 3rd overall in the NHL to not making the playoffs is missing Mrazek and having Andersen instead, then the Leafs upgrading Andersen to Mrazek must make them Cup contenders.

I never made the claim? But if you think so, sure thing.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I guess the Leafs are going to be juggernauts then, because if the reason Carolina goes from 3rd overall in the NHL to not making the playoffs is missing Mrazek and having Andersen instead, then the Leafs upgrading Andersen to Mrazek must make them Cup contenders.

Not about losing Mrazek, though Mrazek was good for them last year - in 12 games.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yup, they have drafted very poorly!

Take a more detailed look at their drafting and it only gets worse. They should probably just trade all of the rest of their picks too.

 

[DRW204]

Andersen has been crap the last 2 years posting 909 and 895 SV%, and negative GSAA in both. got basically usurped by Jack Campbell who significantly outplayed freddie last year. can he keep it up as a starter over 50-60 games? , but leafs are lucky they get to play against OTT/BUF/DET multiple times a year, 3 lotto teams. Leafs also been top 10 in limiting quality chances against (all-strengths xGA - although this includes last year where there was no division crossover, and irregular schedule).

carolina had great goaltending last year (thanks to ned+mrazek) where they finished 3rd overall in league-wide SV% (all strengths), the 2 years previous (18-19, 19-20) while in the metro, they were basically middle-of-the-pack in league wide SV% (all strengths) and were wild card teams both years by 3ish pts. downgrade in net, hamilton out, kotka+deangelo in. idk, i think they'll be roughly the same as those years. 3 pts margin is not enough for me to stamp them a lock for the POs.

perhaps Andersen turns back the clock to 18-19 and posts nearly a 920, fully possible. but he's nose-dived down significantly since that season.

Neither them or TOR i have as cup contenders (i really only have 2-3 teams as cup contenders lol).

 

[tbcwpg]

I never made the claim? But if you think so, sure thing.

Well if the goaltending is the main difference between Carolina finishing so high up last season and not this year, the place that goalie went should be much better, right? Especially if the former guy went the other way.

 

[DRW204]

Well if the goaltending is the main difference between Carolina finishing so high up last season and not this year, the place that goalie went should be much better, right? Especially if the former guy went the other way.

are you surprised that this is true or something? goaltending is a significant part of the game.

they had the 3rd best goaltending last year, finished 3rd. the 2 years prior they were middle of the pack (14th and 17th) and made the POs by 3 pts.

major(?) downgrade in net, lose a norris calibre dman. then consider +kotka +ADA, i can see them being squeaking in the POs (similar to 18-19 and 19-20) or just missing, but doubt theyre the 3rd best team again.

 

[tbcwpg]

are you surprised that this is true or something? goaltending is a significant part of the game.

they had the 3rd best goaltending last year, finished 3rd. the 2 years prior they were middle of the pack (14th and 17th) and made the POs by 3 pts. downgrade in net, lose a norris calibre dman. then consider +kotka +ADA, i can see them being squeaking in the POs or just missing, but doubt theyre the 3rd best team again.

I don't see them as 3rd overall again, no, but I think calling them out of the playoffs is an overreaction to those changes. ADA can actually play (if he keeps his attitude in check, a big if) and Kotkaniemi isn't replacing a better player in the lineup. Any team with Aho and Svechnikov is a playoff contender for sure.

 

[WolfHouse]

So ......... In other words, this really was just a petty revenge move.

He has to say that so they’re not suspected of cap circumvention I believe

 

[WolfHouse]

Look at the acquired column here! SMH
View attachment 463801
I count just 5 drafted players out of 24.

Jets have 13 drafted players out of 24.

Carolina also only has five drafted players on their roster...

 

[Flair Hay]

He has to say that so they’re not suspected of cap circumvention I believe

Yup

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He has to say that so they’re not suspected of cap circumvention I believe

Nope. There is no cap circumvention involved if they have discussed their future plans while negotiating this OS.