Around the League 42: Life, the Universe, and Everything

[A Star is Burns]

As far as the playoff matchups, I just don't think a somewhat easier first round makes me feel better about the possibility of ending up in MSG for 4 out of 7 in the second round. We've been a pretty good playoff home team. We have had some struggles on the road in the playoffs and at MSG in general.

Now, maybe the Rags don't make it to round two or maybe this team has loaded up enough to overcome that. But I'd take home ice as long as we can get it no matter who we face.

 

[bleedgreen]

Except for all the many, many times he scored with that effort and singlehandedly won us games.

Of all the things you can say about Jeff Skinner, and he had his warts, that he didn't try to win is simply not one of them. He got in pretty serious conflicts with the coaching staff because he thought that their system was a losing one and he ultimately opted to entirely ignore that system because it was, indeed, a losing pile of shit, and that open defiance of the coaching staff is what got him pushed down in the lineup and ultimately traded. But with hindsight, is there anybody willing to argue that he was not indeed entirely right and that Peters hockey was an effective, winning system? Anyone? Skinner was right and he stuck his neck out against the coach and against the broken culture because he wanted like hell to win. He got burned for being the one player who actually tried to get this team back into caring when the coach just wanted all the players to shut up and submit.

Peters system was awesome for the team we had and had us on the way to being a playoff teams for sure. The system was getting kudos around the league. We like to laugh about Peters but he did a very good job with what he had. We were instantly a more competitive team and more fun to watch.

And while no one would want the comparison, Rod is very much a shut up and submit coach. He doesn’t even bother with people he may have to tell to shut up. He just doesn’t use them. This team has been 100% submissive to the style to a fault at times and our playoff success reflects it a bit. We do well in the regular season playing a defensive playoff style and huge forecheck effort. By the time we get to the playoffs everyone plays that way, we’re a bit tired, and they have better personnel to be successful with it. This year with the offensive adds will be an our first true chance to see what we can do.

Just seems funny to make fun of Peters for his style of demanding everyone to play his way when we replaced him with some who demands it even more….he's just not a dick about it.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Except for all the many, many times he scored with that effort and singlehandedly won us games.

Of all the things you can say about Jeff Skinner, and he had his warts, that he didn't try to win is simply not one of them. He got in pretty serious conflicts with the coaching staff because he thought that their system was a losing one and he ultimately opted to entirely ignore that system because it was, indeed, a losing pile of shit, and that open defiance of the coaching staff is what got him pushed down in the lineup and ultimately traded. But with hindsight, is there anybody willing to argue that he was not indeed entirely right and that Peters hockey was an effective, winning system? Anyone? Skinner was right and he stuck his neck out against the coach and against the broken culture because he wanted like hell to win. He got burned for being the one player who actually tried to get this team back into caring when the coach just wanted all the players to shut up and submit.

Peters system was better for winning than Skinner's weird need to say eff defense ill just go try to steal the puck in the O zone.

It comes down to Skinner is an empty stat hockey player. All of the positives are on the ice are outweighed by all that he doesnt do to help a team win. He doesnt care to change either. Trying to say he cares is too funny. He only cared about doing one thing, and it wasnt winning.

Skinner had 28 GWGs so Im not sure we can say that he really efforted us to winning games.

 

[bleedgreen]

It was a defensive minded possession based system with over the top defense gapping up early for high pressure. Skinner is like Necas in that he’s a creator who didn’t really fit in any defensive system. Peters also played him on the third line where he rarely had good linemates and it fed the bad habit of creating by himself since no one playing with him really could.

I would take Skinner back now if he wasn’t at his price.

Peters system would’ve worked with this current team just fine imo. It wasn’t the system keeping us out of the playoffs. Any system works if the players buy in. We were a cap floor team that was rebuilding from scratch. No gm or coach is gonna make that look good, and we were almost back to the playoffs. New management and coaching backed with money…..voila.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Just seems funny to make fun of Peters for his style of demanding everyone to play his way when we replaced him with some who demands it even more….he's just not a dick about it.

There are more than a few differences between the two:

1) As you said, he's not a dick
2) He's been there before himself, which garners a level of respect from players.
3) He's way more flexible in general and knows how to connect with players. Seeing how he's been with guys like DeAngelo, Burns, Lemieux, and even Necas. Never would have happened with Peters.
4) He's gotten results. Sure, he's had better talent, but results ultimately matter.
5) He knows how to motivate players. Listen to some of his post game speeches. He "demands" things, but he also motivates. Listen to how guys that have been here talk about him. Of course no coach is going to have 100% of the players like them, that's part of it but it's fair to say Peters was pretty hated.

The system isn't that much different between the two. I think Rod's system gives the defensemen more freedom, but maybe less freedom for some of the forwards.

 

[bleedgreen]

There are more than a few differences between the two:

1) As you said, he's not a dick
2) He's been there before himself, which garners a level of respect from players.
3) He's way more flexible in general and knows how to connect with players. Seeing how he's been with guys like DeAngelo, Burns, Lemieux, and even Necas. Never would have happened with Peters.
4) He's gotten results. Sure, he's had better talent, but results ultimately matter.
5) He knows how to motivate players. Listen to some of his post game speeches. He "demands" things, but he also motivates. Listen to how guys that have been here talk about him. Of course no coach is going to have 100% of the players like them, that's part of it but it's fair to say Peters was pretty hated.

The system isn't that much different between the two. I think Rod's system gives the defensemen more freedom, but maybe less freedom for some of the forwards.

Rod is new school communication vs Peters being on the demanding side vs players coach side of old school. Nothing he did was weird or out of whack in that world. I know the current world tears that old world up and I don’t necessarily disagree, today’s players just don’t respond to that anymore. It was a little more borderline then I think, plenty of guys still did respond to it. Not everyone hated Peters.

The number one thing Rod really has is the current/past work ethic of taking care of yourself and as you say…having done it. Remove the done it part and I doubt he’s still a head coach. He’s a great motivator but lots of great motivators fail. He’s got a great combo of attributes that work, but Peters was a very good coach overall. It had run its course. They all do.

I’m not convinced on the flexibility thing. Rod put up with some things early on because he had no choice with our developing roster and even then he was not at all flexible with guys who crossed him one way or another. Yes Ferland or Haula. He also isn’t that flexible about who he wants where, as we’ve seen with role players. He’s only flexible when there’s a hole in the lineup and the Borg has left him what they’ve left him. I think Peters was more flexible with the day to day roster than he may be getting credit for. The most annoying roster thing he did was start two defenseman in OT and play Staal a lot in that situation……which Rod does exactly the same. He also played Staal on the pp much to the chagrin of goalie chest protectors and corner boards across the league.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I'm with you on the overall point about winning the cup- but it's also worth considering that facing tough competition makes you improve your own game. Teams that face a too easy opponent quite regularly get smacked in the face the next round- see us getting whacked by Florida and unable to score after running over an easy matchup, partially because we fell into thinking things would come easy. Sweeps are a good example as well- teams that win in a sweep have terrible records in the round after, because they have a long wait, fall out of rhythm and practice, and because they're overconfident. 2019 was a good example- we sweep the Isles, then the Bruins sweep us, and then the Bruins themselves lose in the next round (though they weren't swept).

Facing too many too tough opponents will burn you out, but facing too many easy ones leaves you unprepared.

As a whole though, it's something that you have no control over unless you deliberately try to loose games, which is the worst plan available. Ultimately, win your games and nothing else matters.

Agree except about the too many tough opponents and burnout. Chiefs just had one of the toughest roads to a SB win ever and just waltzed right on through. No excuses to not win. As you said you have no control and gotta play who’s on the schedule

 

[The Faulker 27]

Yes, but did you all know Jeff was also a figure skater?

 

[HisIceness]

Huehuehue

 

[LakeLivin]

Yes, but did you all know Jeff was also a figure skater?

There were clues . . .

 

[Lempo]

Not many people know it, but stick control is the hardest part in a pirouette.

 

[AD Skinner]

Always liked skinner. Still do. Would love to see him in the playoffs someday

 

[Identity404]

Skinner was the ONLY player making any attempt to win at all for much of his time here. He was giving effort when literally no one else was, and nearly dragged the rest of the team to the playoffs in 2017 singlehandedly.

Saying that he was the personification of our losing culture is something that couldn't be more deeply and flagrantly wrong. You should be f***ing ashamed of having put that into writing.

Yeah, ok.. well I said it wasn’t deserved and he was a scape goat. So maybe you should be ashamed of your reading comprehension and attacking me.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Skinner was no more of a problem child than Necas. The difference is in the context — the talent then vs now, the ownership then vs now, the fanbase and media attention, the W/L count.

Peters was a better coach than he gets credit for. Nobody, and I mean nobody would have made those teams look good. Some of the rosters he coached were unwatchable and probably uncoachable. Turns out he was a dick, sure. But he wasn’t a Muller, he could actually coach.

There is no one person who was the personification of that era. It was a broke owner, a front office with dwindling resources, a small-market fanbase that bailed, and a collection of the usual sort of players who drift in and out when an organization is in a state like that. Bunch of guys trying to impress some other team’s pro scout, or cashing that one last paycheck, or past the point of caring. It was just a shit era that consumed even the careers of guys who had been successful before, or went on to be successful elsewhere. Nothing wrong with hating the era in retrospect, but there’s not much to be learned from fighting about who deserves to wear the badge of shame over it.

 

[Unsustainable]

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

lightning firmly in a playoff spot but other than that this is good.

 

[The Faulker 27]

Skinner was no more of a problem child than Necas. The difference is in the context — the talent then vs now, the ownership then vs now, the fanbase and media attention, the W/L count.

Peters was a better coach than he gets credit for. Nobody, and I mean nobody would have made those teams look good. Some of the rosters he coached were unwatchable and probably uncoachable. Turns out he was a dick, sure. But he wasn’t a Muller, he could actually coach.

There is no one person who was the personification of that era. It was a broke owner, a front office with dwindling resources, a small-market fanbase that bailed, and a collection of the usual sort of players who drift in and out when an organization is in a state like that. Bunch of guys trying to impress some other team’s pro scout, or cashing that one last paycheck, or past the point of caring. It was just a shit era that consumed even the careers of guys who had been successful before, or went on to be successful elsewhere. Nothing wrong with hating the era in retrospect, but there’s not much to be learned from fighting about who deserves to wear the badge of shame over it.

Excellent post.

 

[LakeLivin]

oh lawd. that dudes effort was false effort. He is the definition of spinning your tires effort.

oh hey, there goes Skinner. He is working hard but where is he going? i dont know but it hurts the team.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "false effort", but there were a lot of times when Skinner was the only Cane on the ice showing any real attempt to compete at all. I'll take "false effort" over no effort any day of the week because of the effect each has on team culture.

Since I started following the Canes closely (maybe 2014?), imo the franchise low point wasn't Scott Darling missing that lob from center ice, it was a game the Canes played at Buffalo. Skinner was hustling all game and getting run by the Sabres. Three of them started roughing him up at center ice and not one Cane came to his defense. I found it to be disgusting.

 

[Svechhammer]

This will not end well for the league

 

[Blueline Bomber]

This will not end well for the league

Just from a legal standpoint, it's better for them to deny any connection than to admit it. Admitting they know there's a connection could open up some liability.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Just from a legal standpoint, it's better for them to deny any connection than to admit it. Admitting they know there's a connection could open up some liability.

Yeah, it's not pleasant to see them put it that way time and again, but it's obviously what anyone even semi-competent would do in their position.

 

[Unsustainable]

What are the effects of concussions during development and after the frontal cortex is finished?

IE, do concussions at a younger age will more likely lead to CTE vs concussions after 25.

Peewee football is doing a lot of brain damage at very young ages. Same with hockey, soccer, ect.

 

[NotOpie]

This will not end well for the league

Said world renowned brain scientist Bill Daly....

 

[AD Skinner]

The great philosopher of our time Mitch hedberg once said,

“Dr. Scholl makes foot products, right? And he's a doctor, which means he went to school for a long time. But it doesn't take a lot to figure out that stepping on a cushion would be more comfortable. That f***er wasted lots of time at school. 'Cause I would have bought that shit from a Mr. Scholl.”

This is exactly how I feel about hits to the head being bad for a person

 

[Blueline Bomber]

OV is really feeling the goal-scorers touch lately. Don't like that because Carolina still has to face them twice. But he's less than 50 goals away from Gretzky, which is insane.