Speculation: Armchair GM Thread: I can't believe it's not butter, I can't believe we didn't get Ryan Hartman.

[Flames Fanatic]

It's hilarious how defensive you get when somebody mentions the idea of separating Monahan with Gaudreau.

"Hey maybe the Flames should spread out the scoring and split up 13 and 23"

"No way, Monahan is way better than Bennett"

How about this, let Monahan play with Tkachuk and you can call that the first line. Would that satisfy you? Or are you just terrified of what might happen to Monahan's production without Gaudreau?

Monahan has yet to score a 5v5 goal this year without Gaudreau on the ice, FYI.

It's hilarious that people continue to pump Bennett when he hasn't done jack shit for nearly two full seasons now.

Monahan has also barely played any 5 on 5 time without Gaudreau so that stat is so beyond useless it's not even funny. And newsflash, he scored 23 in a season before Gaudreau even made the NHL.

As it stands, this team can't score enough. So separating our two top scorers in an attempt to boost scoring doesn't make sense. It would make sense if you weren't stapling a player that would drag down the other two guys. Bennett likely would with Gaudreau and Ferland, and whomever you stick with Monahan and Tkachuk in your scenario would as well. Not to mention it would be splitting up the 3M line and with the way Frolik hasn't been producing, takes away MORE offense from that line.

 

[The Gnome]

If Monahan is so terrible why are other teams going to give us a better player back in return?

The quantity for quality deals almost never work out for the team getting quantity so not sure who is going to go for that package.

In fact the list of centers that are better than Monahan is small enough that I think when proposing upgrading him guys should at least post the guy that we are getting back.

Actually, that is an awesome idea. I'm not taking the time to do it, but if someone posts a well thought out list of centers they think are better than Monahan, it'd be great to see.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

And in what world has Bennett done to warrant playing with Gaudreau?

In the same world where Ferland was written off as a career bottom 6 player before finally getting a chance to play in an offensive role. I was on record saying that Ferland would work on that line for like a year. It's actually hilarious that it took GG 60 games to try him there . . . over Alex effin Chiasson lol.

Bennett has proven more than Ferland had prior to getting the promotion to the top line, and it's been one of the best lines in the league ever since. Whenever he's been given the chance to play with Gaudreau he's looked excellent, last night included.

 

[Mobiandi]

If this team can shore up their right wing, they absolutely should separate Gaudreau and Monahan.

The reason we have scoring issues is because of the way we lean on the 3M line defensively. It's delusional to expect the 3M line to each put up big numbers, just because preventing a goal is their number one task. The 3rd line production ebbs and flows like one would expect while our 4th line sucked for most of the year.

So when our first line went quiet, we were screwed more often than not this season because no one was there to pick up the slack consistently.

I'd like to see us shift away from using Backlund as our de facto shutdown guy and try to mold Jankowski in that role instead. Backlund can make ordinary scrubs look like 40 point guys. I'd love to see what he could do together with two offensive juggernauts like Johnny and Tkachuk.

Tkachuk-Backlund-Gaudreau
Bennett-Monahan-Trade/UFA
Ferland-Jankowski-Frolik
Lazar-Shore-Brouwer

 

[Baxterman]

In the same world where Ferland was written off as a career bottom 6 player before finally getting a chance to play in an offensive role. I was on record saying that Ferland would work on that line for like a year. It's actually hilarious that it took GG 60 games to try him there . . . over Alex effin Chiasson lol.

Bennett has proven more than Ferland had prior to getting the promotion to the top line, and it's been one of the best lines in the league ever since. Whenever he's been given the chance to play with Gaudreau he's looked excellent, last night included.

They didn't look excellent together when Ferland was out for a few games at the end of February, they didn't look excellent together last night.

And Ferland has been a clear passenger on the top line all year long. I guess he has produced better than he would if he didn't have those two guys to leech off but he is far from a good example to use since his offense is 100% reliant on Monahan and Gaudreau.

 

[Baxterman]

If this team can shore up their right wing, they absolutely should separate Gaudreau and Monahan.

The reason we have scoring issues is because of the way we lean on the 3M line defensively. It's delusional to expect the 3M line to each put up big numbers, just because preventing a goal is their number one task. The 3rd line production ebbs and flows like one would expect while our 4th line sucked for most of the year.

So when our first line went quiet, we were screwed more often than not this season because no one was there to pick up the slack consistently.

I'd like to see us shift away from using Backlund as our de facto shutdown guy and try to mold Jankowski in that role instead. Backlund can make ordinary scrubs look like 40 point guys. I'd love to see what he could do together with two offensive juggernauts like Johnny and Tkachuk.

Tkachuk-Backlund-Gaudreau
Bennett-Monahan-Trade/UFA
Ferland-Jankowski-Frolik
Lazar-Shore-Brouwer

I do not think that Jankowski has that ability but as of now with no other options it may be worth a try. I personally would go with Shore and Frolik on that line as I think Shore is a much better defensive player than Ferland (or any other winger we have) and he could help out with the center duties if Jankowski was struggling or perhaps in some match-ups where he was a better fit.

My question is in that scenario when we have seen that Gaudreau-Monahan works and that with Ferland they can have sucess what is the rationale behind moving Backlund and tkachuk up and pairing Monahan with two duds? It seems like we are creating the same situation now with Monhan being a better player than Backlund but still stuck with dragging around two guys that need carrying.

Wouldn't it make more sense to keep the top line together, move Bennett into Froliks spot and then use the 2nd line like a more traditional 2nd line instead of the shutdown line? Or if you are set on splitting up Monahan and Gaudreau why not have Bennett with Backlund and Tkachuk with Monahan?

 

[Mobiandi]

My question is in that scenario when we have seen that Gaudreau-Monahan works and that with Ferland they can have sucess what is the rationale behind moving Backlund and tkachuk up and pairing Monahan with two duds? It seems like we are creating the same situation now with Monhan being a better player than Backlund but still stuck with dragging around two guys that need carrying.

Wouldn't it make more sense to keep the top line together, move Bennett into Froliks spot and then use the 2nd line like a more traditional 2nd line instead of the shutdown line? Or if you are set on splitting up Monahan and Gaudreau why not have Bennett with Backlund and Tkachuk

Since being put on the wing, Bennett has been producing almost at 0.5 PPG (26P, 57GP). Even when he's not getting points, he's looked good since the switch. I don't think he's a dud at all.

I think he has more offensive potential than Frolik, who in my opinion is a third liner on any other team that has depth at the RW.

I don't like the Tkachuk-Monahan pairing because there's very little speed there and Monahan isn't one to go the dirty areas and grind it out, like Tkachuk is.

 

[Baxterman]

Since being put on the wing, Bennett has been producing almost at 0.5 PPG (26P, 57GP). Even when he's not getting points, he's looked good since the switch. I don't think he's a dud at all.

I think he has more offensive potential than Frolik, who in my opinion is a third liner on any other team that has depth at the RW.

I don't like the Tkachuk-Monahan pairing because there's very little speed there and Monahan isn't one to go the dirty areas and grind it out, like Tkachuk is.

I am not a huge fan of using qualifiers when talking about guys and excluding their bad games to make their stats look better. Bennett has looked better on the wing and after his struggles to start the season but I am not sure he has looked like a key part of a top 6 line and more like a guy that would need to be carried. I guess it would depend on the RW that you have in your scenario.

Isn't the fact that Tkachuk will go to those areas a good fit with Monahan?

 

[DFF]

In the same world where Ferland was written off as a career bottom 6 player before finally getting a chance to play in an offensive role. I was on record saying that Ferland would work on that line for like a year. It's actually hilarious that it took GG 60 games to try him there . . . over Alex effin Chiasson lol.

Dave Semenko played on the line with Gretzky. That didnt make him a top 6 player.

Ferland on the top line is a problem not a solution

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Dave Semenko played on the line with Gretzky. That didnt make him a top 6 player.

Ferland on the top line is a problem not a solution

How. Look at the numbers since he joined that line:

Gaudreau 97gp 30g 108p +16
Monahan 96gp 39g 87p +20
Ferland 90gp 28g 49p +14

Those are significant improvements for 13 and 23 while playing with Ferland than with any other player.

 

[JPeeper]

good god, I cannot believe people want to entertain the idea of moving Monahan. A 23 year old center who is good for 60+ points, 30+ goals a season, and has clearly made progress defensively this season. Let's trade him!! I mean he's 23, he's clearly peaked, sell high...riiiiight.

Don't want to sound like a dick, but I honestly think people just don't watch or understand hockey with the amount of flak Monahan gets.

MacK JUST overtook him this season in career points, 5 seasons after being drafted, still leads his and the previous draft class for goals, but because he isn't fancy or has played with Gaudreau his entire career he is just some nobody. The Gaudreau argument is beyond stupid. It's the same dumb ass argument people used with Tkachuk his draft year, "oh he's only a product of his linemates, he doesn't do anything himself".

There's really no point in arguing over Monahan anymore.

 

[herashak]

Since being put on the wing, Bennett has been producing almost at 0.5 PPG (26P, 57GP). Even when he's not getting points, he's looked good since the switch. I don't think he's a dud at all.

I think he has more offensive potential than Frolik, who in my opinion is a third liner on any other team that has depth at the RW.

I don't like the Tkachuk-Monahan pairing because there's very little speed there and Monahan isn't one to go the dirty areas and grind it out, like Tkachuk is.

I don't know why you would think Monahan isn't willing to go to dirty areas. he gets hacked and checked as hard as anybody on this team yet still always goes to greasy areas.

 

[Master Bill]

As bad Ferland has been recently, he's a cheap, good fit on the top line. The #1 priority should be to find a RW to replace Frolik. The guy has been single-handedly bringing the 2nd line offence down.

Trade Brodie or Stone+ to find a guy who would benefit from a change of scenery like Schenn.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Actually, that is an awesome idea. I'm not taking the time to do it, but if someone posts a well thought out list of centers they think are better than Monahan, it'd be great to see.

I'll give it a shot (in no particular order):

Crosby
McDavid
Backstrom
Scheifele
Seguin
Eichel
Bergeron
Stamkos
Getzlaf
Kopitar
Barkov
Tavares
Matthews
Malkin
Giroux
Pavelski (when he plays C, anyway)
Kuznetsov

I'd say the above list is all guys who are inarguably better than Monahan, and there's a small list of guys who I think could be argued one way or the other:
O'Reilly
Johansen
Couturier (depending whether he can repeat this level of production in the future)
Trochek
MacKinnon (who is currently the most overrated player in the NHL)
Barzal (too soon to call it)
Toews
Draisaitl (when he actually plays C)

Contentious possibilities:
Backlund and Kesler (depending how much you value offensive production over defensive ability)

I may have missed a couple of dudes, but I'd say Monahan is firmly in the top 30 centres in the league, even if you value defensive forwards highly, and he's most likely in the 15-20 range.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Why not just leave Bennett with Monahan and Gaudreau?

 

[SKRusty]

I'll give it a shot (in no particular order):

Crosby
McDavid
Backstrom -> great player but #8 has a way of making good look great.
Scheifele-> We will see when Sean gets a line as good as Sheifele's
Seguin -> In the same class as Monahan
Eichel -> Hasn't shown it yet.
Bergeron-> only because of the D-game
Stamkos
Getzlaf
Kopitar
Barkov -> Definite no. This is the first year he has to even come close to comparing. He has had way more talent surrounding him than Monny has.
Tavares
Matthews
Malkin
Giroux
Pavelski (when he plays C, anyway) -> Not Even close
Kuznetsov -> in the same realm as Monny is but has had more talent around him in the past.
MacKinnon-> Depending if he can maintain this level he is slightly above Sean.


Sean was on pace for 80 points when he was injured in January (Yes that is how long he has been dealing with his injury woes)
As much as many here think too much of Bennett there are as many that don't recognize the talent Monahan is. He and Johnny have never had a full line with them where as Barkov, Backstrom, Seguin, Kopitar, Tavares, Matthews, MacKinnon, Stamkos, and Pavelski have.

Sean is not a prima-dona. He is more like Joe Sakic in the way he handles himself on and off the ice. Like Joe there were many others that could skate better, a few that could shoot better, and so forth but few in the game have the hockey sense and clutch capabilities of the two.

 

[DFF]

How. Look at the numbers since he joined that line:

Gaudreau 97gp 30g 108p +16
Monahan 96gp 39g 87p +20
Ferland 90gp 28g 49p +14

Those are significant improvements for 13 and 23 while playing with Ferland than with any other player.

2 goals in last 25 games...

He can leech off them for awhile...big deal

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

2 goals in last 25 games...

He can leech off them for awhile...big deal

And 5p in his last 7.

Monahan only has 4g in his last 20, and only 2 at ES. Guess he's a leech too?

 

[DFF]

And 5p in his last 7.

Monahan only has 4g in his last 20, and only 2 at ES. Guess he's a leech too?

Monahan has proven record....So Monahan in the slump, that makes it OK for Ferland to suck?

Good logic....

Ferland is back to his own inconsistent self. He is no top 6 forward.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Playing Mony with Tkachuk could be interesting because we all know what Tkachuk does to his linemates, that’s pull them in. Backlund has never been a gritty player but he ends up in the trenches more now and mucking it up with how Tkachuk stirs the pot. In all honestly, it could be the best thing for him.

 

[DFF]

Playing Mony with Tkachuk could be interesting because we all know what Tkachuk does to his linemates, that’s pull them in. Backlund has never been a gritty player but he ends up in the trenches more now and mucking it up with how Tkachuk stirs the pot. In all honestly, it could be the best thing for him.

I like this idea...we need our #1 center to be less of a softie

Any idea how to toughen up Brodie?

 

[Baxterman]

I'll give it a shot (in no particular order):

Crosby
McDavid
Backstrom
Scheifele
Seguin
Eichel
Bergeron
Stamkos
Getzlaf
Kopitar
Barkov
Tavares
Matthews
Malkin
Giroux
Pavelski (when he plays C, anyway)
Kuznetsov

I'd say the above list is all guys who are inarguably better than Monahan, and there's a small list of guys who I think could be argued one way or the other:
O'Reilly
Johansen
Couturier (depending whether he can repeat this level of production in the future)
Trochek
MacKinnon (who is currently the most overrated player in the NHL)
Barzal (too soon to call it)
Toews
Draisaitl (when he actually plays C)

Contentious possibilities:
Backlund and Kesler (depending how much you value offensive production over defensive ability)

I may have missed a couple of dudes, but I'd say Monahan is firmly in the top 30 centres in the league, even if you value defensive forwards highly, and he's most likely in the 15-20 range.

I agree with your first list although think Pavelski and Kuznetsov make it just barely. I would put MacKinnon there too, what he has done this year is super impressive and although he might not always be at that level I think he will be close.

Out of that list I would say that the only guys even remotely possible to be traded for (or acquired) are Tavares, Backstrom, Kuznetsov and Pavelski. I think the chances are very slim that we could get any of them but the other guys are all definite no's.

I think of the other list Barzal, Draisaitl (unless some multi-team deal where someone else deals for him and then flips him to us which seems highly unlikely) and Johansen are definite no's as well.

I would disagree with you contentious possibilities and just say flat out they are not better or even close to better so I will eliminate them.

So that leaves a list of: Tavares, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Pavelski, O'reilly, Couturier, Trochek, Toews as guys who are possible upgrades on Monahan and realistic for us to add. For the purposes of this the point is getting a #1 center that can we can win the Cup with. I don't think they are better than Monahan anyways but I can definitely say they do not fit into the elite/win a cup with center category so I will take out O'reilly, Couturier, Trochek, Toews (Toews of this age not prime Toews).

So that basically has us down to realistic options to replace Monahan and have a chance to lead us to a Cup as Tavares, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Pavelski and even at that I am not sure any of those outside of Tavares really fulfill the 2nd requirement and saying the latter 3 are realistically possible to get is a stretch as well.

Some may disagree and I would love to hear others (especially those that think we should move Monahan to upgrade) but I think I was fairly reasonable in my breakdown of guys.

I will throw one other possibility that I think most Monahan isn't good enough guys won't like. perhaps you think a guy like Nolan Patrick may develop into the better C, well does a deal with Philly around Gaudreau, with more pieces than Patrick I am thinking something around guys like Konency and/or Provorv, get us the center we want? It does mean losing Gaudreau though so may defeat the purpose in some folks eyes.

TL;dr- There are very few guys (Tavares, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Pavelski) that are realistically possible to get and upgrades at Center to Monahan. For those that think we need that upgrade and propose doing it I would love to hear how we get one of those guys or a guy that you think I omitted.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

TL;dr- There are very few guys (Tavares, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Pavelski) that are realistically possible to get and upgrades at Center to Monahan. For those that think we need that upgrade and propose doing it I would love to hear how we get one of those guys or a guy that you think I omitted.

Yeah, and honestly all of those guys are pretty old comparatively; it wouldn't be worth the trade.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Aberg has been producing like a boss since he's been an Oiler.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Crosby
McDavid
Backstrom -> great player but #8 has a way of making good look great.
Scheifele-> We will see when Sean gets a line as good as Sheifele's
Seguin -> In the same class as Monahan
Eichel -> Hasn't shown it yet.
Bergeron-> only because of the D-game
Stamkos
Getzlaf
Kopitar
Barkov -> Definite no. This is the first year he has to even come close to comparing. He has had way more talent surrounding him than Monny has.
Tavares
Matthews
Malkin
Giroux
Pavelski (when he plays C, anyway) -> Not Even close
Kuznetsov -> in the same realm as Monny is but has had more talent around him in the past.
MacKinnon-> Depending if he can maintain this level he is slightly above Sean.


Sean was on pace for 80 points when he was injured in January (Yes that is how long he has been dealing with his injury woes)
As much as many here think too much of Bennett there are as many that don't recognize the talent Monahan is. He and Johnny have never had a full line with them where as Barkov, Backstrom, Seguin, Kopitar, Tavares, Matthews, MacKinnon, Stamkos, and Pavelski have.

Sean is not a prima-dona. He is more like Joe Sakic in the way he handles himself on and off the ice. Like Joe there were many others that could skate better, a few that could shoot better, and so forth but few in the game have the hockey sense and clutch capabilities of the two.

I disagree with a number of your points. Backstrom rarely plays with Ovechkin, for example, and Barkov plays with Huberdeau (not as good as Gaudreau) and Dadonov (better offensively than Ferland, although he's less good in other ways); Barkov is also a much better defensive player than Monahan, and literally the only knock against him as a player I can think of is that he gets injured relatively easily.