Speculation: Armchair GM Thread: I can't believe it's not butter, I can't believe we didn't get Ryan Hartman.

[Baxterman]

Agostino is at least a valuable player that we gave up on, and the first ended up being higher.

How is Agostino a valuable player?

 

[Anglesmith]

How is Agostino a valuable player?

He's actually been a very good AHL player since leaving our organization, and has done decently well in the NHL, too.

 

[Baxterman]

He's actually been a very good AHL player since leaving our organization, and has done decently well in the NHL, too.

Hasn't he only played like 10 games in the NHL?

And I am not overly concerned if one guy is better than the other at the AHL level if that is all they ever are.

 

[JPeeper]

I mean, some people were pissed off that we only got a 6th for David Jones at the time. What these picks become really ends up having more to do with anything than the value of the trade itself.

I really don't like evaluating GMs based on rumours. The Nyquist/Tatar rumour was something Bob McKenzie heard from someone else. Details could be sketchy, but regardless, Nyquist and Tatar are what they are: 40-50 point guys. I think going for a first rounder is so common for GMs selling top-level players because no matter what, you're giving yourself a chance at a real impact player that no one else can mess up for you. If you acquire prospects or bubble players, the other organization may be making them available for a reason. If you acquire a first rounder, you're in control of what you get out of it, more or less. So I find it pretty far from indefensible even if true, but I also don't want to put any real thought into it because it's really just a rumour.

Keep in mind also that internet experts also thought it was indefensible that we didn't take the Bruins' much better offer of a 1st, Khokhlachev and Bartkowski for Iginla. Agostino is at least a valuable player that we gave up on, and the first ended up being higher.

True, but the fact remains Feaster traded a signed Bouwmeester for a late 1st and scraps. That is horrendous value when Hamonic and Hamilton are getting a 1st and 2 2nds, Larsson is getting Taylor Hall, Sergachev is getting Drouin, Subban and Weber get each other, Myers got Kane and Bouw was just as good as any of them. Feaster inherited a mess so he was in a real tough position, but he didn't get good value on 80% of his trades.

As for drafting, take your pick on what you want to look at. Feaster said on the draft floor post 1st round that all 3 guys they got they had in the top 10. So do you want to blame poor scouting or Feaster. If you're going to give credit to Feaster for drafting Monahan then he should be blamed for drafted Klimchuk and Poirier (like really, both Klimchuk and Poirier were in the top 10 on their draft sheet, that's just bad). It was the same year we took Kanzig in the 3rd too I believe after having no 2nds.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I think it goes back to Treliving's mantra of letting prospects marinate in the minors. It's no secret he's plateaued in the last two weeks while Stajan's play has come around a lot in the last little while. Stapling Janko to the fourth line and letting him continue to struggle does nothing for the Flames or for his personal development.

But I still think that this rumour is patently false. Friedman throws a lot of **** at the wall in the hopes that it sticks. Last week we were after Hoffman, not Smith. Now it's the other way around? Doubt it

I think the only thing we can be certain of is that there seems to be a lot of Flames' presence at Ottawa games.

Funny thing is they could just as easily be basing their operation out of Ottawa, and looking at all of the eastern teams rolling through.

 

[Dack]

Sutter got us Kipprusoff, Giordano, Brodie, Ferland, Backlund. 4 of those guys are key contributors to our current team and the other guy is our best goalie of all-time and likely a top 5, if not higher, Flames of all time.

Also he never once had a high pick like Monahan and when he had a relatively high pick he made a good choice in Phaneuf. Sure his first picks weren't great but considering where most of them were they aren't nearly as bad as people try to paint the picture.

As for Feaster what he was left with is wildly underrated. He had 3 great trade pieces in Iginla, Bouwmeester and Kiprusoff some not bad trade pieces in other guys and a team ready and in need of a rebuild. He flubbed all those pieces. His drafts were overall pretty bad which is why we are struggling and giving pieces up for secondary players.

He came in with a defensive core of Gio, Bouwmeester, Regehr and Brodie and left a defense core of Gio, Brodie, Russell and Wideman that is brutal. He came in with a goaltending situation of an old vet and no propescts and left with a pile of garbage a long shot prospects. He didn't make either of those groups any better and actually set us back by not improving them during his time here rebuilding. The forward he did add Gaudreau and Monahan which is huge but the depth guys once again aren't there and it is a huge problem.

The best that can be said about Feaster is that he got chicken poop (not true but this is the best case scenario) and made poop salad with it.

He gets to live off Gaudreau and in to a lesser extent Monahan but that is proof of how bad he was because he didn't take a smart overall plan to rebuild this team, didn't take steps to improve the overall organizational depth, didn't make smart moves to re-stock the cupboards. The fact that this team is still so heavily reliant on Sutter era guys is an indictment on Feaster and the players he brought in.

He was an absolutely terrible GM and that is in large part why he is out of hockey operations completely and hasn't even been mentioned at all for open positions in the league . This all ignores the ridiculousness of his comments during his time here, his huge misses in ROR and Richards and his awful hire of his buddy for a coach.

You're right I thought Sutter as GM didn't take over until around 2006. Although I don't know how much credit he should get with regards to Gio who went to the KHL because we wouldn't give him a one way contract or something along those lines.

I revise to Treliving > Sutter > Feaster

 

[Dack]

On the Friedman thing apparently he later said that he'd gotten a call after saying he thought the Flames were after Smith and was told he was wrong. So we can get off red alert.

 

[Calculon]

Doug MacLean asks if they want an top line winger to play with Monahan and Gaudreau

Treliving: Ferland's not going anywhere; great chemistry with those guys; Ferland stands on his own two feet; not a third wheel

Would like to add some goals but has to make sense cost wise; not a big rental fan; will keep pounding those bushes to see if there's a fit

Acknowledges that deadline deals are a mixed bag when it comes to helping with the now; don't want to play keeping up with the Jones

Glen really challenged Monahan to be a true #1 this season; to be a true #1 on a team that's contending need to do more than produce; whole other level of who you play against and producing while defending; a lot of the competitive areas - playing against top teams this year

--------------------

Sounds like he's going to do something but it won't disrupt the first line. So logically, a third line scoring winger on the cheap is what they're looking for

 

[Baxterman]

You're right I thought Sutter as GM didn't take over until around 2006. Although I don't know how much credit he should get with regards to Gio who went to the KHL because we wouldn't give him a one way contract or something along those lines.

I revise to Treliving > Sutter > Feaster

Feaster is subject that sets me off so I probably reacted a little more strongly than needed with that.

I think the biggest issues isn't so much with the ranking but I am not sure any of the 3 or the guy ahead of them can be ranked any higher than average at this point (and that might be too high) so whatever way we rank them the real issue is that it just hasn't been good enough no matter which way you cut it.

 

[Baxterman]

Treliving: Ferland's not going anywhere; great chemistry with those guys; Ferland stands on his own two feet; not a third wheel

I guess there isn't really anything else he can say but I can't see anyway he can actually believe that.

Also, although I did say he probably doesn't say anything else, it would be nice to see guys press GMs a little more in interviews on stuff like this. But I guess that's not how you get guys to come on the radio. It just means these interviews seem more like PR moves for the GMs than anything of value.

I do like that he said he didn't like going down the rental route. This team isn't winning this year so i would prefer they make a move that helps beyond that even if it costs a little more (not Smith).

 

[InfinityIggy]

Treliving says a lot of stuff, see his answers to questions around going after Hamilton, Jagr. He always plays coy. I wouldn't read anything into his responses as to what kind of players we might be going after.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Why Treliving isn't offering up Micheal Ferland? He's not a complete f***ing moron, that's why.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Feaster was good at signing his players to contracts. He hired Weisbrod as his hockey guy, so debate that if it was a good move or not. I liked Weisbrod at first, but he only scouted the NCAA which is where we got all the “skis” from. He was horrendous at trades, the Iginla and Bouwmeester deals were 50% of why he was fired. It was his fault and inexperience that he didn’t get Iginla’s list in writing. 25% was due to the ROR fiasco which was just embarrassing. Yeah everyone can say that the Flames would have challenged it, but he still neglected to make a simple phone call to the league office which is all on him. The last 25% was because he came off as incompetent with his sound bites and he wasn’t respected around the league. It was honestly like a circus around here when he was in charge. He had training wheels on almost the entire time.

I honestly preferred Sutter. Sutter was really only bad post Dion and it was because he was desperate. He was the one that started to increase all of our scouting make the Flames a modern NHL team.

Treliving isn’t perfect, he’s made mistakes and he admits to them. But he’s extremely smart, he knows how the game is played today, he’s very competent, he’s an active GM with a big pair of donuts, and he never sleeps. He’s surrounded himself with good hockey people, I hope he’s our GM for a number of years.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Also, the comments on Backlund not signing that deal is total speculation by the radio guys. Backlund himself said he wishes that he didn’t have to negotiate during the season but it is what it is. The guys on radio were commenting why a deal isn’t signed yet, then brought up the rumours of Smith as a trade target and poured fuel on the Backlund fire. Thankfully this has all since been debunked. I wonder if Friedman was trying to acknowledge his colleagues (Garrioch) rumour, the. dug into it a little more and found out it wasn’t true.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I also listened to the Friedman piece on Smith. Total speculation on his part - said something along the lines of "Smith's a western Canadian kid, has the size which is desirable commodity in the western conference so would make sense if the Flames were looking at him"

Edit: Also this, which I make no claims as to its validity as a source

 

[Calculon]

Paul Byron's coming home

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

We’re getting Drouin, guys.

 

[Lunatik]

Paul Byron's coming home

Pagnotta is as reliable a source as my left nut

 

[crackdown44]

Pagnotta is as reliable a source as my left nut

I do not know enough about your left nut to deduce what this means, nor do I want to

 

[Lunatik]

I do not know enough about your left nut to deduce what this means, nor do I want to

It's not reliable, it's always swaying back and forth

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Would love to make a depth swap with the Habs. Lazar etc for Byron.

 

[DFF]

Both Feaster and D Sutter are bad GMs in term of trade

Feaster looked like he gave up more than he should on any trade he made

D Sutter trade looked good intially but usually turned out to be a loser (i.e Jokinen)

 

[herashak]

You tell Adam fox you got a 3rd line RW spot locked up, max whatever.

 

[Mr Snrub]

Would love to make a depth swap with the Habs. Lazar etc for Byron.

"Lazar etc"

 

[crackdown44]

"Lazar etc"

1 goal in his last 1 game. Trade him while he’s hot