Armchair GM IV: What do you mean Internal Cap???

[The Zermanator]

But whatever, Byfuglien is not an option anymore. You don't think he was available without Larkin, I think he was available and affordable. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Dotter]

But whatever, Byfuglien is not an option anymore. You don't think he was available without Larkin, I think he was available and affordable. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Byfuglien never was an option. /facepalm.

He re-signed with his hockey club just like the media (since January) said he likely would.

 

[Winger98]

Surprise, surprise, Nill & Holland talking about parity's effect on the trade deadline. If prices are high, I think Holland should look at moving some guys. Kindl and/or Smith should be obvious moves, Howard should be in play, and I'd put Helm and Richards into play for the right prices considering how well Athanasiou has looked, as well as Mantha and the readiness of Nosek to slide into the lower half of our lineup.

I don't think we have the cap flexibility to pull of the sort of trade we need to upgrade the blueline, but we could set ourselves up well to have extra assets to move around deadline day, as well as clearing out some salary for next season. As we've seen with our inability to move some guys the past few years when they no longer fit into our plans, we may need to strike if the iron's hot in regards to a guy like Kindl/Howard/Smith, regardless of how it may potentially weaken us for a playoff run.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Surprise, surprise, Nill & Holland talking about parity's effect on the trade deadline. If prices are high, I think Holland should look at moving some guys. Kindl and/or Smith should be obvious moves, Howard should be in play, and I'd put Helm and Richards into play for the right prices considering how well Athanasiou has looked, as well as Mantha and the readiness of Nosek to slide into the lower half of our lineup.

I don't think we have the cap flexibility to pull of the sort of trade we need to upgrade the blueline, but we could set ourselves up well to have extra assets to move around deadline day, as well as clearing out some salary for next season. As we've seen with our inability to move some guys the past few years when they no longer fit into our plans, we may need to strike if the iron's hot in regards to a guy like Kindl/Howard/Smith, regardless of how it may potentially weaken us for a playoff run.

I really don't see Howard as a deadline move. If we move him we need a solid backup in place, and I doubt we find a team interested in trading for him mid-season.
Richards was also signed in large part because of the playoffs. That's where he can be valuable.
Helm I would be willing to move if we could find a trade for d-man, but that's a big "if". He's a good player to have in the playoffs so I wouldn't trade him for picks or something.

Kind is probably always on the table for other teams. Smith obviously expendable too if we can acquire a d-man.

 

[Vladdy84]

I'd kick the tires on moving Jimmy, Kindl/Sproul and Richards/Helm to the Jets for Ladd.

But still. Like said above, I'd hate to move Jimmy with no real backup in the organization for the rest of the season. Jimmy should be moved at the draft.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

I love how it's somehow Holland's fault that Byfuglien re-signed in Winnipeg.

 

[HockeyinHD]

If prices are high, I think Holland should look at moving some guys. Kindl and/or Smith should be obvious moves, Howard should be in play, and I'd put Helm and Richards into play for the right prices considering how well Athanasiou has looked, as well as Mantha and the readiness of Nosek to slide into the lower half of our lineup.

Exactly how high would prices have to get to entice a team to acquire a goalie making 5.3 for 3+ years who may not even be in the top 20 of current goaltenders (30?), or a couple of 6-7-8 NHL dmen all making over 2 mil?

Serious question: if someone offered Holland a 7th round pick for Howard right now is there a single person in the universe who thinks he wouldn't take it?

With Smith and Kindl it's slightly different, considering both of their deals are for far less and are far shorter, as well as the position being one where there's no depth behind them.

Howard doesn't just have no value... he has negative value. Detroit literally can't give him away.

Kindl and Smith, enh. They aren't huge roster problems. Their deals aren't good, no, but they are short and small(er). They'll both be gone when Datsyuk's deal expires, and he's not getting 7.5 on his next one. That'll be a Holland special, a quasi off the books Cleary-ian handshake year by year thing.

 

[TheMule93]

The answer to moving Howard and Ericsson is the expansion draft.

 

[njx9]

I really don't see Howard as a deadline move. If we move him we need a solid backup in place [...]

Uh, why? It's not like Coreau or McCollum couldn't play just as effectively as Jimmy has lately (I don't disagree that he's un-moveable for other reasons).

I love how it's somehow Holland's fault that Byfuglien re-signed in Winnipeg.

Didn't you hear? Byfuglien was super affordable (whatever that means).

 

[Winger98]

Exactly how high would prices have to get to entice a team to acquire a goalie making 5.3 for 3+ years who may not even be in the top 20 of current goaltenders (30?), or a couple of 6-7-8 NHL dmen all making over 2 mil?

Serious question: if someone offered Holland a 7th round pick for Howard right now is there a single person in the universe who thinks he wouldn't take it?

With Smith and Kindl it's slightly different, considering both of their deals are for far less and are far shorter, as well as the position being one where there's no depth behind them.

Howard doesn't just have no value... he has negative value. Detroit literally can't give him away.

Kindl and Smith, enh. They aren't huge roster problems. Their deals aren't good, no, but they are short and small(er). They'll both be gone when Datsyuk's deal expires, and he's not getting 7.5 on his next one. That'll be a Holland special, a quasi off the books Cleary-ian handshake year by year thing.

I don't think he would. I think Holland values depth too much and, unless a goalie was coming back, he wouldn't move Howard because of the questionable depth at the position in GR. What in Holland's past makes you think he'd send depth out at the deadline?

Which is why I think the prices would have to be good to convince him to go against his initial instincts. I also disagree about Kindl and Smith not being roster problems next year. We're still waiting to hear what the cap will likely be, but most of what I read expects it not to move much. Since I doubt we can move Howard, and we have dekeyser and Mrazek looking at decent pay raises, moving Kindl/Smith would be helpful.

I really don't see Howard as a deadline move. If we move him we need a solid backup in place, and I doubt we find a team interested in trading for him mid-season.
Richards was also signed in large part because of the playoffs. That's where he can be valuable.
Helm I would be willing to move if we could find a trade for d-man, but that's a big "if". He's a good player to have in the playoffs so I wouldn't trade him for picks or something.

Kind is probably always on the table for other teams. Smith obviously expendable too if we can acquire a d-man.

Honestly, I don't either, and it would rely almost entirely on injuries hitting the goalie on a team that thought they had a chance. At the same time, I'm not sure Holland would move him because then we'd be without a backup. Putting him and Richards on the list is more me saying that Holland shouldn't worry about how they might impact a playoff run, and that he should be open to moving guys like them regardless. Personally, outside of Kindl, I don't think Holland will look to move anyone off the roster unless someone calls him up and offers something stupid.

 

[Mister Ed]

Phaneuf is on the market again per MacKenzie, prepare to see all the Phaneuf to DET threads again. I don't think this team needs him, with Marchenko playing as good as he has.

 

[Marky9er]

I think I could get behind Howard and Kindl for Phaneuf. Beyond that, I'll pass.

 

[Hammettf2b]

I think I could get behind Howard and Kindl for Phaneuf. Beyond that, I'll pass.

Throw in Pookie and Tor retains some cash.

 

[Frk It]

Exactly how high would prices have to get to entice a team to acquire a goalie making 5.3 for 3+ years who may not even be in the top 20 of current goaltenders (30?), or a couple of 6-7-8 NHL dmen all making over 2 mil?

Serious question: if someone offered Holland a 7th round pick for Howard right now is there a single person in the universe who thinks he wouldn't take it?

With Smith and Kindl it's slightly different, considering both of their deals are for far less and are far shorter, as well as the position being one where there's no depth behind them.

Howard doesn't just have no value... he has negative value. Detroit literally can't give him away.

Kindl and Smith, enh. They aren't huge roster problems. Their deals aren't good, no, but they are short and small(er). They'll both be gone when Datsyuk's deal expires, and he's not getting 7.5 on his next one. That'll be a Holland special, a quasi off the books Cleary-ian handshake year by year thing.

He's played so bad that he has basically tied our hands. Really sucks, I did not think he would be that bad this year.

 

[Marky9er]

Throw in Pookie and Tor retains some cash.

Too late. Missed opportunity. Phaneuf is a senator.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Too late. Missed opportunity. Phaneuf is a senator.

For a bunch of spare parts no less.

 

[Marky9er]

For a bunch of spare parts no less.

That's all the Leafs gave for him anyway.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Exactly how high would prices have to get to entice a team to acquire a goalie making 5.3 for 3+ years who may not even be in the top 20 of current goaltenders (30?), or a couple of 6-7-8 NHL dmen all making over 2 mil?

Serious question: if someone offered Holland a 7th round pick for Howard right now is there a single person in the universe who thinks he wouldn't take it?

With Smith and Kindl it's slightly different, considering both of their deals are for far less and are far shorter, as well as the position being one where there's no depth behind them.

Howard doesn't just have no value... he has negative value. Detroit literally can't give him away.

Kindl and Smith, enh. They aren't huge roster problems. Their deals aren't good, no, but they are short and small(er). They'll both be gone when Datsyuk's deal expires, and he's not getting 7.5 on his next one. That'll be a Holland special, a quasi off the books Cleary-ian handshake year by year thing.

Howard was always a consistent, solid goalie until this year. With playoff experience. And this year he's simply not in a position to succeed. He gets few starts, and when he does play his defense doesn't help him much.

If I know this, other teams' scouts should know it. But you're saying there isn't a single struggling team willing to take the chance that they can lean on him to get back to his old self?

 

[Frk It]

Too late. Missed opportunity. Phaneuf is a senator.

Wouldn't mind adding Phaneuf the player, would mind adding his contract.

 

[HockeyinHD]

I don't think he would. I think Holland values depth too much and, unless a goalie was coming back, he wouldn't move Howard because of the questionable depth at the position in GR. What in Holland's past makes you think he'd send depth out at the deadline?

That he's waived guys and replaced them with kids out of GR, that Howard's been a raging dumpster fire approaching the point where he's effectively unplayable, and that he sees that contract as an albatross?

I mean, you say questionable depth in GR, I see two guys putting up strong numbers behind a mediocre club. I'd have no problem with Coreau up as a 1 start in every 4 games backup, and if he flames out I'd have no problem with McCollum up instead.

Being able to toss a 6-6er backup out there to give a team a totally different look is pretty nice, especially when the other option is to spend 5.3 on a guy who can't stop a beachball right now.

Which is why I think the prices would have to be good to convince him to go against his initial instincts. I also disagree about Kindl and Smith not being roster problems next year. We're still waiting to hear what the cap will likely be, but most of what I read expects it not to move much. Since I doubt we can move Howard, and we have dekeyser and Mrazek looking at decent pay raises, moving Kindl/Smith would be helpful.

Helpful, but not necessary. Dekeyser gets around half of Quincey's money added to his deal. Mrazek gets the rest, plus a portion Richards' contract. The rest of that goes to Helm, if he gets a raise at all (which he might not).

Detroit's not rolling around in cap space next year, but they're not starved for it, either. Add in the cap savings on Datsyuk's next deal the year after, plus Smith and Kindl coming off the books, and the Wings are in very good shape to retain Tatar.

Personally, outside of Kindl, I don't think Holland will look to move anyone off the roster unless someone calls him up and offers something stupid.

I agree. This team seems to be more set up for a tinkering trade than a transformational one. They've got enough depth at center I can see them shipping out a prospect or two there to land a vet dman for the stretch. Like a Cody Franson type. Someone they can play in the 5-6 spot to bump Smith or Marchenko out of the rotation.

Huh. I wonder if Columbus would want to give up on Jack Johnson? That's the kind of sneaky move Holland would try. Offer something like Smith, Turgeon and a couple picks (a 1 or a 1 and a 2) for him, then if they got a bite up it to Tatar and Smith plus a 2 instead.

I don't know how attached that franchise is to Johnson. May be a totally unreasonable ask.

 

[Marky9er]

Wouldn't mind adding Phaneuf the player, would mind adding his contract.

Yes that's why I was only offering Howard and Kindl lol

 

[Claypool]

Too late. Missed opportunity. Phaneuf is a senator.

"Missed opportunity"

 

[hyduK]

Yeah, even though Ottawa didn't give up much I'm not taking on that full contract. The Leafs obviously accepted a bit less value in order to get rid of that contract in full.

Let's be honest, this board would be calling for Hollands head if we accepted that full contract, regardless of how little we gave up.

 

[HockeyinHD]

If I know this, other teams' scouts should know it. But you're saying there isn't a single struggling team willing to take the chance that they can lean on him to get back to his old self?

Find me a team where it makes more sense to do that than it does to stand pat or pursue other options.

Anaheim? No
Arizona? No.
Boston? No.
Buffalo? No.
Calgary? No.
Carolina? No.
Chicago, Colorado, Columbus, Dallas, Edmonton, Florida, LA, Minnesota, Montreal, Nashville, NJ, Islanders, Rangers, Sens, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Tampa, Toronto, Vancouver, Washington, Winnipeg? No's.

The only vaguely plausible destinations I see for Howard are Philly (if we took back Mason and offered to eat some of Howards contract) and SJ.

Even then, why would either of those teams want Howard over almost any other FA goalie with a resume?

If Howard was cruising along with a 2.4ish and a .914 or something, enough to lose the job but not lose the job and then bury himself alive, there might be some options. The way he's just poo'd all over himself this year, man, that's a very expensive lottery ticket to buy when the grand prize is maybe getting a guy who can get back to be a top 12ish starter. Maybe.

 

[Classicnamesup]

The Dion traded, thank God. Not coming here for sure