Sportsnet: Arizona have received an offer matching their asking price for Jakob Chychrun.

[BB88]

20 year old stud might be on your Google search history but not mine.

So we agree they don’t get traded in this league

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Arizona have received an offer matching their asking price for Jakob Chychrun.

 

[YotesFan47]

How does that trade answer my question?

Lundell is 20 stud C with 2.5 years left on his elc, when’s the last time a 20y stud C with multiple elc years was traded?

Those are the most valuable assets in the league, pure gold for teams and Gm’s

Let me go dredge through trades over the last 20 years to find the exact same scenario. I don't have that kind of memory bro, you know what I posted is pretty close, close enough to use as a benchmark for theory. If you don't like that I'm discussing a potential move of one of your players on a public forum designed to talk about trade theory, block me. The fact is, Florida is specifically named to be very interested, Lundell is specifically mentioned as being the interested piece back, and a trade could be worked out. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it impossible.

 

[The don godfather]

All I know Is bill Armstrong is one sharp cookie and ain't gonna get fleeced. You can try though.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

Coyotes should just keep Chychrun. Unless it's too good of an offer. A 23 year old 1D is one of the most valuable pieces you can have and one of the hardest to acquire. Lundell is going to be at worst a selke caliber 2nd line center. He has alot of potential and would be a good add for the Coyotes. Florida must be thinking cup run this year. Their roster is pretty stacked but losing Lundell could hurt their depth come playoff time.

 

[YotesFan47]

you want something that isn't available and don't have anything remotely attractive outside of Chychrun that isn't an unprotected first.

Jenik, Guenther, Maccelli, Soderstrom, Moser, Hayton, Doan, Fedotov?

We have the pieces.

 

[rt]

Johansen for Jones springs to mind very quickly.

Chychrun for Lundell would be very similar. If I recall, Johansen either asked for a trade or indicated he wanted to get to UFA asap which helped matters along. Chychrun has not done that but the Coyotes are showing interest in making such a move should sufficient value be offered.

As a base, Chychrun for Lundell works pretty well but Florida would need to send cap back, as well as get a new 3c, and potentially middle 6 winger if Hornqvist is the cap casualty. Not at all claiming Hornqvist is negative value, just that his cap hit to on once impact may open the door to swapping him.

Chychrun (50%) + Jenik (perfect future 3c, I see an impact much like Boon Jenners) + Larsson + Boyd + FLA 2nd (from the Stralman trade) for Lundell + Ludvig + Hornqvist. That's a pretty favorable deal for Florida.

That’s too favorable to Florida. Ditch Jenik, at least.

Lundell’s defensive prowess and PKing is important to Florida’s Cup run this season. So I like the idea of adding Larsson. That makes sense.

I think adding 50% retention on Chychrun is absolutely huge. That’s got a 1st round value, in and of itself. So now we are talking Chychrun, Larsson and a late 1st (value-wise) for Lundell. That’s a little rich. And that’s BEFORE you add Jenik and a 2nd. That’s just crazy.

 

[Heldig]

How about Tippett to Winnipeg for Heinola+4th, then FLA can add Heinola in to their Chychrun offer?
To ARI: Knight+Heinola+1st+???
To FLA: Chychrun+WPG 4th
To WPG: Tippett

How is Tippet worth MORE than Heinola?

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

One thing that I feel should still be considered is that neither Friedman nor Marek have specifically stated that Lundell is off the table. They have made such insinuations with other top prospects such as Byfield and McTavish, but have not done so with Lundell, at least not to the same direct level.

 

[cwede]

... That's why I think Jenik makes sense as the future 3c with grit and tenacity. Not that it's in short supply in Florida but they are excelling with those types. Jenik may not be 100% ready before next year ...

Is Jenik playing C in Tucson? did not know that
EliteProspects lists him as W/C, they are my go-to for international guys, i always expect guys listed as W/C end up on W

then adding him might also tempt NYR into a better offer, NYR pipeline is much deeper at W/D/G than C

 

[BB88]

Let me go dredge through trades over the last 20 years to find the exact same scenario. I don't have that kind of memory bro, you know what I posted is pretty close, close enough to use as a benchmark for theory. If you don't like that I'm discussing a potential move of one of your players on a public forum designed to talk about trade theory, block me. The fact is, Florida is specifically named to be very interested, Lundell is specifically mentioned as being the interested piece back, and a trade could be worked out. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it impossible.

It’s nothing like trading Lundell, and you not being able to remember any of those just suggest how rare they are.

C is the most valuable position in hockey, elc contracts are the most valuable for team and especially for contenders.
Lundell fits into both of those categories

Nobody has said Lundell is on the table.

I fear there’s too many Ari fans hoping for the moon and ending up with far less.

 

[YotesFan47]

Coyotes should just keep Chychrun. Unless it's too good of an offer. A 23 year old 1D is one of the most valuable pieces you can have and one of the hardest to acquire. Lundell is going to be at worst a selke caliber 2nd line center. He has alot of potential and would be a good add for the Coyotes. Florida must be thinking cup run this year. Their roster is pretty stacked but losing Lundell could hurt their depth come playoff time.

Chychrun's value is the highest it will possibly be with the Coyotes. His contract is a big reason for that, the longer we keep him, the more years tick away, the less valuable he potentially becomes. That can be negated by further growth of his game, stepping up from a top ~45 defenseman to a top ~15-20 defenseman. A team could add that, at a fantastic cap hit. Florida is best positioned to do it.

Or

Chychrun, in his prime, at 23 years old, will need to sit through a rebuild that will likely last 3-5 years minimum. Then we all know it takes more than 1 shot at the cup before you actually maybe win it. He won't want to do that most likely and he'll be signing a deal twice as large before his shot comes in Arizona. Makes more sense to get a younger player that will be better positioned with the new core BA is drafting.

Lundell is younger and fills another position of need, desperate need.

This is one of those few times when stars align and a high end hockey trade can be made. It happens, this isn't impossible. Both teams can win this and I think both teams have the right pieces to make it work. Not only can Arizona bulster Florida's blueline, but they can also replace a lot of what is lost in Lundell. Not completely, maybe 50% when it's all said and done, but they can provide a good 3c prospect with 2c upside, and 2 bottom 6 center/wingers on cheap deals that can fill in on the top 6.

No one can say anything for certain about Lundell, Chychrun, or Florida's chances at the cup, but we can all make assumptions as to how Florida could achieve the championship. Florida's blueline is one major injury to Weegar or Ekblad away from being a playoff team vs a cup contender, why not add an insurance policy that changes it to cup contender vs cup favorite should one go down?

Lundell is making a large impact, but he's not the chain link that Florida should be concerned with should a center go down. They have the depth and Arizona can add to that depth. All it costs is upside.

The logic is there, Florida fans are just not willing to admit it yet.

 

[rt]

Coyotes should just keep Chychrun. Unless it's too good of an offer...

I think that’s the plan.

 

[rt]

How is Tippet worth MORE than Heinola?

He’s not. Lol.

 

[YotesFan47]

It’s nothing like trading Lundell, and you not being able to remember any of those just suggest how rare they are.

C is the most valuable position in hockey, elc contracts are the most valuable for team and especially for contenders

Johansen was a #1 center with upside, on the last year of his bridge deal. Jones was on the last year of his ELC as a potential #1 RD, also an insanely rare piece. Chychrun has 3 years left on his "bridge deal". Lundell has 2 years left on his ELC.

Those deals are close as crap to the same value I'm proposing as a base. You're trying to detract my point because I can't use your exact standard without spending time trying to uncover a deal I forgot because it was unimportant to me. You're right, it is rare, its not impossible. I'm not saying this deal happens, I'm saying this base makes a ton of sense based on the information available and I want to discuss the potential options. If you're unwilling, block me and move on.

 

[YotesFan47]

Is Jenik playing C in Tucson? did not know that
EliteProspects lists him as W/C, they are my go-to for international guys, i always expect guys listed as W/C end up on W

then adding him might also tempt NYR into a better offer, NYR pipeline is much deeper at W/D/G than C

He plays both, Jenner is my direct comparison when I think of NHL impact. Can play W and C, plays with an edge, best suited in a middle 6 role.

 

[BB88]

Johansen was a #1 center with upside, on the last year of his bridge deal. Jones was on the last year of his ELC as a potential #1 RD, also an insanely rare piece. Chychrun has 3 years left on his "bridge deal". Lundell has 2 years left on his ELC.

Those deals are close as crap to the same value I'm proposing as a base. You're trying to detract my point because I can't use your exact standard without spending time trying to uncover a deal I forgot because it was unimportant to me. You're right, it is rare, its not impossible. I'm not saying this deal happens, I'm saying this base makes a ton of sense based on the information available and I want to discuss the potential options. If you're unwilling, block me and move on.

No I’m not.
I’m simply asking why expect something that hasn’t been done?

It’s a simply question.
Reading on lot of Ari fans proposals they are asking for the moon for Chychrun who is great but no Fox or Makar.

I can’t think of a single top tier C prospect(who are shining in the NHL) getting traded when they have done nothing but raised their value post draft.
They are crazy valuable

 

[HoseEmDown]

The title should read who's more overrated Lundell or Schneider.

 

[violaswallet]

Chychrun's value is the highest it will possibly be with the Coyotes. His contract is a big reason for that, the longer we keep him, the more years tick away, the less valuable he potentially becomes. That can be negated by further growth of his game, stepping up from a top ~45 defenseman to a top ~15-20 defenseman. A team could add that, at a fantastic cap hit. Florida is best positioned to do it.

Or

Chychrun, in his prime, at 23 years old, will need to sit through a rebuild that will likely last 3-5 years minimum. Then we all know it takes more than 1 shot at the cup before you actually maybe win it. He won't want to do that most likely and he'll be signing a deal twice as large before his shot comes in Arizona. Makes more sense to get a younger player that will be better positioned with the new core BA is drafting.

Lundell is younger and fills another position of need, desperate need.

This is one of those few times when stars align and a high end hockey trade can be made. It happens, this isn't impossible. Both teams can win this and I think both teams have the right pieces to make it work. Not only can Arizona bulster Florida's blueline, but they can also replace a lot of what is lost in Lundell. Not completely, maybe 50% when it's all said and done, but they can provide a good 3c prospect with 2c upside, and 2 bottom 6 center/wingers on cheap deals that can fill in on the top 6.

No one can say anything for certain about Lundell, Chychrun, or Florida's chances at the cup, but we can all make assumptions as to how Florida could achieve the championship. Florida's blueline is one major injury to Weegar or Ekblad away from being a playoff team vs a cup contender, why not add an insurance policy that changes it to cup contender vs cup favorite should one go down?

Lundell is making a large impact, but he's not the chain link that Florida should be concerned with should a center go down. They have the depth and Arizona can add to that depth. All it costs is upside.

The logic is there, Florida fans are just not willing to admit it yet.

As every Florida fan here has said and all of our reporters/team sources have said, Lundell is not available for Chychrun. I don't think you understand the impact he has on our team defensively (literally a Barkov-esque defensive season as a rookie) while pacing for 50 points as a rookie and being a routine shootout choice! He's literally the first rookie I've seen Q use routinely (before he was fired) and has allowed us to use Barkov more offensive zones, which is super valuable, and to have multiple offensive lines when everyone is healthy.

There's not a trade available with the Coyotes that Florida and Arizona agrees to. Lundell is off the table. The 'Yotes fans don't want Knight.

If we're worried about Weegar going down, we can add a Chiarot or Giordano. We almost beat the Lightning with our current defense minus Ekblad.

 

[YotesFan47]

No I’m not.
I’m simply asking why expect something that hasn’t been done?

It’s a simply question.
Reading on lot of Ari fans proposals they are asking for the moon for Chychrun who is great but no Fox or Makar.

I can’t think of a single top tier C prospect(who are shining in the NHL) getting traded when they have done nothing but raised their value post draft.
They are crazy valuable

First off, I'm not expecting any deal to go down yet, I'm only expecting that Lundell is the target in Florida. If I alluded to otherwise, my mistake. Florida has Lundell, Lundell is the best single asset fitting our biggest need, therefor making him the best potential return. Chychrun also makes a ton of sense for Florida. Reports state that Florida and Arizona are talking Chychrun. I'm connecting dots, not claiming a trade is imminent.

There are, less than a week ago we all lost our nuts briefly because someone reported Lundell + Knight + 1st. Once we calmed down we realized that was dumb. Beyond that, we are asking for value that is comparable to moving a top pairing defenseman, at 23, with 3 more years of control on a great contract.

Would you trade Ekblad for Lundell if your top pair was Chychrun - Weegar and your 2nd pair was Forsling - Gudas? If not than you're better off not responding to my posts because I 100% would if I were a Florida fan. I'd want to win a cup, shoring up my weakest links while losing very little on ice value is HUGE to me.

Just as I would want to win a cup if I were a Florida fan, I want to win a cup in Arizona. It's unlikely Chychrun will directly help with that given the timelines of everything. Conversely, Lundell could alleviate our center deficiencies while providing a few additional years of control, allowing us to get better and increasing our chances of resigning our center instead of losing him to UFA.

I'm willing to add to Chychrun to get Lundell, but Florida will also need to add to keep value from skewing too far in one direction.

Look over my posts in this subforum over the past week. I'm being very reasonable and trying to have constructive conversations about difficult topics. Trading Lundell is a difficult topic.

 

[YotesFan47]

As every Florida fan here has said and all of our reporters/team sources have said, Lundell is not available for Chychrun. I don't think you understand the impact he has on our team defensively (literally a Barkov-esque defensive season as a rookie) while pacing for 50 points as a rookie and being a routine shootout choice! He's literally the first rookie I've seen Q use routinely (before he was fired) and has allowed us to use Barkov more offensive zones, which is super valuable, and to have multiple offensive lines when everyone is healthy.

There's not a trade available with the Coyotes that Florida and Arizona agrees to. Lundell is off the table. The 'Yotes fans don't want Knight.

If we're worried about Weegar going down, we can add a Chiarot or Giordano. We almost beat the Lightning with our current defense minus Ekblad.

I understand exactly who he is. In fact, @rt just wrote a well written post about why Lundell is so important as a player. We get it, he's "untouchable".

Florida is speaking to Arizona about Chychrun. Maybe it's not Lundell but anything short from Florida is a gross underpayment.

If a deal for Chychrun is to be made with Florida, I think Lundell is involved. I'll die on this hill and be very wrong but that's my viewpoint. If my GM trades Chychrun to Florida and Lundell is not part of the package, I will be livid. You can come back and dance around my mangled body singing, "I told you so" and it won't change the fact that I believe Chychrun should not be sold for anything short of Lundell from Florida.

 

[violaswallet]

I understand exactly who he is. In fact, @rt just wrote a well written post about why Lundell is so important as a player. We get it, he's "untouchable".

Florida is speaking to Arizona about Chychrun. Maybe it's not Lundell but anything short from Florida is a gross underpayment.

If a deal for Chychrun is to be made with Florida, I think Lundell is involved. I'll die on this hill and be very wrong but that's my viewpoint. If my GM trades Chychrun to Florida and Lundell is not part of the package, I will be livid. You can come back and dance around my mangled body singing, "I told you so" and it won't change the fact that I believe Chychrun should not be sold for anything short of Lundell from Florida.

As I said "There's not a trade available with the Coyotes that Florida and Arizona agrees to. Lundell is off the table. The 'Yotes fans don't want Knight."

I think Knight is the right value, but wrong position for Arizona right now.

My sense here is that every JC to FLA trade is going in a circle: Arizona fans want Lundell; Florida fans say no; Florida fans offer Knight+2 other firsts and Arizona says no.

For what it's worth, I'm not sure there's a player in the league that I'd trade Lundell for with considering contract status and Florida's roster.

 

[YotesFan47]

As I said "There's not a trade available with the Coyotes that Florida and Arizona agrees to. Lundell is off the table. The 'Yotes fans don't want Knight."

I think Knight is the right value, but wrong position for Arizona right now.

My sense here is that every JC to FLA trade is going in a circle: Arizona fans want Lundell; Florida fans say no; Florida fans offer Knight+2 other firsts and Arizona says no.

For what it's worth, I'm not sure there's a player in the league that I'd trade Lundell for with considering contract status and Florida's roster.

Do you have any quotes from insiders stating Lundell is off the table? I'd be happy to change my viewpoint if I'm missing information but I don't trade Chychrun to Florida without Lundell in the conversation, makes no sense.

Even the Schneider conversations make very limited sense to me. I think we have to get a center with 2c+ upside back. Turcotte is the lowest asset mentioned with that upside, I doubt Arizona adds anything and will require the general condition of young roster player with high upside, A level prospect, and a 1st. CBJ makes a lot of sense, they have a pick that sits in the range of centers with that kind of upside and Sillinger was a name heavily associated with the Coyotes.

Lundell and Florida are best suited to win Chychrun because the need and asset is there, followed by CBJ, LAK, NYR, in that order. I'm happy to agree that if Florida wont include Lundell, there is no deal to be made, but I'm thinking he is.

 

[YP44]

The title should read who's more overrated Lundell or Schneider.

Or Chychrun

 

[BatVader]

Why does Jets need Tippett?

Needed RW over a D we can’t fit into our roster.
Heinola is good, but we have no room for him.
FLA could flip him into their Chychrun proposal or keep him.
Jets could use a young NHL ready RW.