OT: Arizona Coyotes Lounge XIII -- Summertime Blues

[ClassLessCoyote]

It is night and day between Arizona and their education, compared to other states.

The best way for children to get an education is to offer the parents choices in what kind of education to give their children instead of forcing children to attend Public School only. Also, others are choosing to ignore how bad the schools are in places like NYC, Baltimore(watch The Wire), Newark, NJ, etc are in order to validate this stupid narrative about how schools in Arizona are shitty while schools in the other 49 states are doing great. It's sad how parents(lots of parents who aren't rich btw)in the NY metro area are paying over $10,000 a year in property taxes and their children can only go to not so great Public Schools when a good chunk of that tax money can go to funding their children's education at a good private school.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

The best way for children to get an education is to offer the parents choices in what kind of education to give their children instead of forcing children to attend Public School only

I thought parents were allowed to homeschool their kids, or send them to private k-12 schools here? Is that not true? If the issue is money, I've got two words for that: f*** vouchers. I don't mind paying a little more property tax for better public ed, but I'll be damned if I'll support essentially subsidizing overpriced and/or whacko private schools. You want that for your kid you pay for it solely. And in addition to what you pay for public ed. (I'm childless, so I've no dog in that fight)

 

[doaner]

I thought parents were allowed to homeschool their kids, or send them to private k-12 schools here? Is that not true? If the issue is money, I've got two words for that: f*** vouchers. I don't mind paying a little more property tax for better public ed, but I'll be damned if I'll support essentially subsidizing overpriced and/or whacko private schools. You want that for your kid you pay for it solely. And in addition to what you pay for public ed. (I'm childless, so I've no dog in that fight)

I went to rancho solano private school and to a Christian high school. My parents paid for all of it. It’s nice to be able to have options.

It’s unfortunate how everything played out. In the end, the students are the losers, which is sad. They lost a lot of valuable instruction time. My daughter has an IEP and has struggled up to this point. Don’t think this helped her at all!

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

I thought parents were allowed to homeschool their kids, or send them to private k-12 schools here? Is that not true? If the issue is money, I've got two words for that: f*** vouchers. I don't mind paying a little more property tax for better public ed, but I'll be damned if I'll support essentially subsidizing overpriced and/or whacko private schools. You want that for your kid you pay for it solely. And in addition to what you pay for public ed. (I'm childless, so I've no dog in that fight)

They're laws and they're others trying to find ways around such laws. How much more are you willing to pay in property tax? Are you willing to pay at least $10,000 year if your home is only worth around $200,000(just like in the NY Metro Area for example)? If you say yes, such a move will go towards paying teachers higher salaries but it won't improve education greatly. When you say "wacko private schools" is it because those schools are wacko? Or you calling those schools "wacko" because their political and religious agenda? Anyways, now we'll see what punishment, if any, these teachers face for walking out of school.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

I went to rancho solano private school and to a Christian high school. My parents paid for all of it. It’s nice to be able to have options.

It’s unfortunate how everything played out. In the end, the students are the losers, which is sad. They lost a lot of valuable instruction time. My daughter has an IEP and has struggled up to this point. Don’t think this helped her at all!

Sadly most students in the United States have been losers in the current system for quite sometime though for some students it's their fault(because their just plain lazy) and nobody elses fault for why they're either failing or have failed.

1 thing I do like about education in this country though is when the k-12 schools have not done a good job educating all the students, community colleges will step in and provide a much better education.

 

[MIGs Dog]

AZ is the 48th state...48th in school spending that is.

 

[awfulwaffle]

The best way for children to get an education is to offer the parents choices in what kind of education to give their children instead of forcing children to attend Public School only. Also, others are choosing to ignore how bad the schools are in places like NYC, Baltimore(watch The Wire), Newark, NJ, etc are in order to validate this stupid narrative about how schools in Arizona are ****ty while schools in the other 49 states are doing great. It's sad how parents(lots of parents who aren't rich btw)in the NY metro area are paying over $10,000 a year in property taxes and their children can only go to not so great Public Schools when a good chunk of that tax money can go to funding their children's education at a good private school.

There is already that option here in Arizona. There are charter schools and other options for parents to send their kids to get an education. You don't HAVE to go to the public schools. Are you suggesting that taxes don't pay for any education, and it's up to the communities and the parents of kids to pony up the dough in order for a school(whatever type of school it is that the parents choose to send their kid to) to function?

 

[TheLegend]

The best way for children to get an education is to offer the parents choices in what kind of education to give their children instead of forcing children to attend Public School only. Also, others are choosing to ignore how bad the schools are in places like NYC, Baltimore(watch The Wire), Newark, NJ, etc are in order to validate this stupid narrative about how schools in Arizona are ****ty while schools in the other 49 states are doing great. It's sad how parents(lots of parents who aren't rich btw)in the NY metro area are paying over $10,000 a year in property taxes and their children can only go to not so great Public Schools when a good chunk of that tax money can go to funding their children's education at a good private school.

A “private” school no longer is a private school if public funds end up funding a large portion of their students.

You can’t have it both ways.

Their’s a lot more to the story here in AZ which you are conveniently ignoring.

 

[doaner]

A “private” school no longer is a private school if public funds end up funding a large portion of their students.

You can’t have it both ways.

Their’s a lot more to the story here in AZ which you are conveniently ignoring.

My schools never were and the Christian school my kids went to in Flagstaff were not either...

 

[TheLegend]

My schools never were and the Christian school my kids went to in Flagstaff were not either...

I went to a private school for a year in eighth grade. It wasn’t a religion based school either. My post wasn’t being narrow in that regards.

 

[doaner]

I went to a private school for a year in eight grade. It wasn’t a religion based school either. My post wasn’t being narrow in that regards.

Oh I know. I’m just speaking from my experience in non traditional public schools. Rancho Solano wasn’t a Christian one either. Great education and experience for me! Graduating class of about 9. Haha

 

[Dirty Old Man]

How much more are you willing to pay in property tax? Are you willing to pay at least $10,000 year if your home is only worth around $200,000(just like in the NY Metro Area for example)?

I won't bother to compute that number, but suffice it to say it's somewhere between 0 and the number you suggest, which is about 7x what I pay now.

(I also believe based on 10 minutes of research into NYC property taxes that you overestimated by about a factor of 3 your $10,000 quote, or somehow found one extreme outlier example to demonstrate your intent.

Calculating Your Property Taxes

New York Property Tax Calculator | SmartAsset.com

Buts that's all I have to say about that subject.)

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I'm willing to pay whatever it takes to bring our school system into the top half of the nation. As a society we have a responsibility to educate our children and take care of our poor. If we educate our children well less of them will be on welfare. By doing a better job educating the children of the poor we can lessen the burdon of taking care of the poor that will face our children and grandchildren.

 

[TheLegend]

And now for something completely different...



Video is from Sweden but has English subtitling.

 

[Tom Polakis]

And now for something completely different...



Video is from Sweden but has English subtitling.

Thanks. Watch a game from the 1980's offensive dynamo Edmonton Oilers, and you'll see next to zero one-timers.

 

[rt]

AZ is the 48th state...48th in school spending that is.

Wouldn't a more helpful chart be spending per pupil relative to per capita tax revenue?

This is like saying the average McDonald's drive-thru worker is irresponsible because they invest fewer total dollars into their 401K accounts than the average Database Architect does.

It's not apples to apples, man.

 

[Jakey53]

Thanks. Watch a game from the 1980's offensive dynamo Edmonton Oilers, and you'll see next to zero one-timers.

Watch a few more because Kurri was known for his one timers from TGO.

 

[IPreferPi]

Wouldn't a more helpful chart be spending per pupil relative to per capita tax revenue?

This is like saying the average McDonald's drive-thru worker is irresponsible because they invest fewer total dollars into their 401K accounts than the average Database Architect does.

It's not apples to apples, man.

In 2014, AZ collected an average of $1944 in taxes per capita, which is 43rd nationally.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Wouldn't a more helpful chart be spending per pupil relative to per capita tax revenue?

This is like saying the average McDonald's drive-thru worker is irresponsible because they invest fewer total dollars into their 401K accounts than the average Database Architect does.

It's not apples to apples, man.

Or compare it to state GDP per capita, and throw in cost of living as well.

 

[rt]

Or compare it to state GDP per capita, and throw in cost of living as well.

I would guess there’s a strong correlation for coat of living and price of education, though. So maybe not that one so much.

% of state revenue spent on public ed. is basically what I’m after. Rank states by that, at least. Then see if Arizona still ends up at the bottom, or if we’re in the middle of the pack.

 

[IPreferPi]

I would guess there’s a strong correlation for coat of living and price of education, though. So maybe not that one so much.

% of state revenue spent on public ed. is basically what I’m after. Rank states by that, at least. Then see if Arizona still ends up at the bottom, or if we’re in the middle of the pack.

According to this, 14.6% of Arizona's total expenditures in 2016 went to K-12 education. 43rd in the nation.

 

[rt]

According to this, 14.6% of Arizona's total expenditures in 2016 went to K-12 education. 43rd in the nation.

Ah. That works. So I’d argue the other chart is a little misleading. We’re probably more like 43rd vs 48th. Not exactly uplifting or anything.

Though, I supposed that we have some unique expenditure challenges in Arizona that some states might not have to face. How do we fare versus other states that share a border with Mexico (as an example)? I’m definitely not going to derail this further and I’m not much of a blame the immigrants guy (not one of those guys at all, in fact).

 

[BOGO]

To me this entire thing really boils down to the movement to push for privatizing education in Arizona. If you look at the numbers, Arizona has the highest percentage of students in charter schools in the US. There has been a consistent movement to encourage that over the years and you get to the point where so much of the education funds are getting funneled to these private institutions that it actually puts the public schools at a disadvantage. If you get into charter schools you will find a whole other level of things that are going on, including how they report better results than most people would come to the conclusion. I am not convinced that charter schools actually provide a better education, but that is definitely the narrative that they are trying to sell.

If you believe that government should not be running any services, then you probably agree with the privatizing of education. I personally do not mind privatizing of public services, but the trade off has to be legitimate regulation. I have not seen that balance yet in Arizona so it is hard to get excited about the charter school movement.

 

[IPreferPi]

Ah. That works. So I’d argue the other chart is a little misleading. We’re probably more like 43rd vs 48th. Not exactly uplifting or anything.

Though, I supposed that we have some unique expenditure challenges in Arizona that some states might not have to face. How do we fare versus other states that share a border with Mexico (as an example)? I’m definitely not going to derail this further and I’m not much of a blame the immigrants guy (not one of those guys at all, in fact).

The other three border states:

California - 20.2% (17th)
New Mexico - 17.4% (24th)
Texas - 23.6% (T-9th)

 

[rt]

The other three border states:

California - 20.2% (17th)
New Mexico - 17.4% (24th)
Texas - 23.6% (T-9th)

Seems like we should think about spending more on k-12 education. What are we spending all of our money on that New Mexico and Texas don’t have to?