OT: Arizona Coyotes Lounge XIII -- Summertime Blues

[cobra427]

Many times parents would rather take that second job so they can drive around and show off their Mercedes and BMW's instead of staying home with their kids. Parents are not taking the responsibility needed to raise kids, and that include food and shelter.

Many people live a lifestyle beyond their means. You have to keep your overhead down, not drive an expensive car, eating out, etc. It's not what you make , it's what you spend. We are inundated with marketing and advertisements confusing wants and needs, keeping up with somebody else.

 

[cobra427]

I think it's also a matter of parents taking a larger role in their child's education instead of expecting public/private/magnet schools to do 90% of the work. Yes, this can be dangerous, but with the increasing amount of information available online, parents can "supplement" their child's education (as long as they are "web-literate"). If the school doesn't cover a certain topic that is important to parents, then parents should look for material that fill those gaps (and not just online material). We really need to get away from the mentality that school is a "job" where you go, do the work, and return to your life. Learning and knowledge need to be incorporated into our daily lives instead of passively waiting to be entertained.

Agreed, starts with parenting. Education is great but it doesn't trump hard work, will, and desire. Kids should be taught to work hard at whatever you do, save money, and stay out of debt. Thats how you get and stay ahead in the real world. I know so many people staying ahead with less, and so many others behind that make way more money. It's not a hard concept, just isn't taught by parents or schools. Just to clarify, I do think teachers in AZ deserved better pay.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Many times some selfish parents would rather take that second job so they can drive around and show off their Mercedes and BMW's instead of staying home with their kids. Some parents are not taking the responsibility needed to raise kids, and that include food and shelter.

Fixed that for you.

 

[TheLegend]

Fixed that for you.

Unfortunately I know that all too well....

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

I can see give a raise to the teachers who do their job right.
I can't see given raises to the bad teachers.
Who's a bad teacher you ask? A bad teacher does all or some of the following:
Only cares about the check.
Treats students unfairly.
Stands up for the student in the wrong over the student in the right.
Stands up for the teacher in the wrong over the student in the right.
Stands up for the bully in the wrong over the bullied student in the right.
Will work with administrators to cover up the bad actions of administrators, teachers, and students who they like and those students they see as a valuable asset to the school like the star QB.
Manipulate others students in order to do whatever the teacher wants, even it's an illegal act like statutory rape or rape.

Shame on those of you who say you won't lose any sleep over the bad teachers getting a raise seeing how the system fails to punish all of the bad school employees.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I can see give a raise to the teachers who do their job right.
I can't see given raises to the bad teachers.
Who's a bad teacher you ask? A bad teacher does all or some of the following:
Only cares about the check.
Treats students unfairly.
Stands up for the student in the wrong over the student in the right.
Stands up for the teacher in the wrong over the student in the right.
Stands up for the bully in the wrong over the bullied student in the right.
Will work with administrators to cover up the bad actions of administrators, teachers, and students who they like and those students they see as a valuable asset to the school like the star QB.
Manipulate others students in order to do whatever the teacher wants, even it's an illegal act like statutory rape or rape.

None of us want to see this type of teacher get rewarded. But the number of these teachers compared to the good ones is so comparatively small that basing opposition on a general investment in education on it is misguided in the extreme.

And it should be noted that the challenging conditions and lack of resources in education generally make it more likely that school systems hire marginally qualified people - because more qualified and able candidates lack incentive, and the pool of candidates is therefore smaller.

It also bears mentioning that, if the public school systems had administrators dedicated to education rather than as messengers for political theory, the system would be far more discerning about hiring practices and therefore more supportive of students.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Many times parents would rather take that second job so they can drive around and show off their Mercedes and BMW's instead of staying home with their kids. Parents are not taking the responsibility needed to raise kids, and that include food and shelter.

You just don't get it. I prefer this explanation to that of you just couldn't care. For every kid whose parent has a BMW there are a ten thousand who barely get enough food to not go to bed hungry at night. We're not talking about Scottsdale Elementary. We're talking about our less fortunate students and their parents who need 2 jobs to make ends meet.

 

[Jakey53]

You just don't get it. I prefer this explanation to that of you just couldn't care. For every kid whose parent has a BMW there are a ten thousand who barely get enough food to not go to bed hungry at night. We're not talking about Scottsdale Elementary. We're talking about our less fortunate students and their parents who need 2 jobs to make ends meet.

If you can't afford kids don't have any. You don't buy a BMW if you can't afford it. You don't buy a big house if you can't afford it. Take responsibility of your life. It's unfortunate, but it's the kids that suffer from their parents being irresponsible. Many live beyond their means and that is where problems start. I seems we all want to out do our friends, relatives etc. but in the real world that sometimes is impossible. I feel for the kids, I really do, but when we had kids I worked two jobs because my wife and I wanted to be there for their first years until they attended school. We didn't want them to attend day care and have some one in their teens teach my kids at this important time of their young life. No one felt sorry for me and I didn't want anyone to feel sorry for me because that is the way we planned it. Yes, I do get it.

 

[rt]

There are zero people in the history of the species that have taken a second job so that they could buy a fancy car. What life experience brings a person to put together a narrative like that?

 

[IPreferPi]

There are zero people in the history of the species that have taken a second job so that they could buy a fancy car. What life experience brings a person to put together a narrative like that?

The same one that leads people to embrace the narratives of the "welfare queen" and rampant fraud and waste with SNAP and other safety net programs, regardless of the actual empirical evidence and the built in societal stigma that greatly dissuades people from applying for that type of aid in the first place.

 

[TheLegend]

If you can't afford kids don't have any. You don't buy a BMW if you can't afford it. You don't buy a big house if you can't afford it. Take responsibility of your life. It's unfortunate, but it's the kids that suffer from their parents being irresponsible. Many live beyond their means and that is where problems start. I seems we all want to out do our friends, relatives etc. but in the real world that sometimes is impossible. I feel for the kids, I really do, but when we had kids I worked two jobs because my wife and I wanted to be there for their first years until they attended school. We didn't want them to attend day care and have some one in their teens teach my kids at this important time of their young life. No one felt sorry for me and I didn't want anyone to feel sorry for me because that is the way we planned it. Yes, I do get it.

Oy vey.....

Not everyone can live in that utopian world of yours, Jakey. Fate often has a funny way of plowing over the plans people make.

I reckon it’s “too bad, so sad for them.... but I get it.”

 

[TheLegend]

There are zero people in the history of the species that have taken a second job so that they could buy a fancy car. What life experience brings a person to put together a narrative like that?

When I lived and worked at a hotel-casino in Reno the Filipino and Vietnamese employees from housekeeping often pooled their monies from their paychecks together with other family members just to buy a new car instead of settling for a couple of used beaters. Not quite the same thing but the concept is.

So it is not an unusual event for someone to take on a second job just so they can have something a little better than the status quo. If it makes them happy then why call it a bad thing?

 

[Bonsai Tree]

If you can't afford kids don't have any. You don't buy a BMW if you can't afford it. You don't buy a big house if you can't afford it. Take responsibility of your life. It's unfortunate, but it's the kids that suffer from their parents being irresponsible. Many live beyond their means and that is where problems start. I seems we all want to out do our friends, relatives etc. but in the real world that sometimes is impossible. I feel for the kids, I really do, but when we had kids I worked two jobs because my wife and I wanted to be there for their first years until they attended school. We didn't want them to attend day care and have some one in their teens teach my kids at this important time of their young life. No one felt sorry for me and I didn't want anyone to feel sorry for me because that is the way we planned it. Yes, I do get it.

I work in a rather poor area of Arizona. While I see the occasional woman with 5 children, most of the families that come in to see me have from 2 to 4, just like the monied class. They don't live beyond their means, and many of them live in extended families under one roof.

Since when is having a child to raise a privelege of only the monied? This is the absolute worst form of elitism that I have encountered. It's not new. It was used against African Americans in the US, Aboriginies in Canada and Jews in Europe and Russia.

 

[Grimes]

Many people I know wont have children because it has become too expensive to raise them. College is too expensive, housing is too expensive, etc. I dont blame them. At this rate it will only get worse for the next generation.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Since when is having a child to raise a privelege of only the monied?

It's not, but I think the point is you should be capable of providing without relying on other taxpayers.

Globally, developed nations (wealthy) have fewer children than underdeveloped (poor).

The U.S. birth rate has dropped to a point where it is/will impact economic growth. Need more immigration and visa permits if we want GDP growth to return to higher levels.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Politics never goes well on hobby boards.

I thought we were talking economics and education.

 

[TheLegend]

I thought we were talking economics and education.

Seems you can't separate it from those two these days.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I think now is as good a time as any for me to re-read one of my favorite books, Up the Down Staircase.

 

[SniperHF]

Terms and conditions for this discussion to continue (non negotiable):

1. Discussion of policy is okay. Discussion of politicians pushing said policies is not. I do not care if it's relevant, don't bring it up in any context.

2. Discussions of the political leanings of posters is not to be brought up in any context.

3. If you think you cannot discuss the teachers strike and periphery issues without going into 1 or 2, then don't engage.

4. Keep it related in some way to the teachers walkout and education. Digressions into other issues aren't helping.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Well, today's the last day of the walkout, so I guess the point is moot.

 

[Summer Rose]

Well, today's the last day of the walkout, so I guess the point is moot.

Payson school district went back on Monday.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Well, today's the last day of the walkout, so I guess the point is moot.

I spoke too soon - looks like most of the Valley districts still won't be open tomorrow.

 

[GiveAFlyingPuck]

I spoke too soon - looks like most of the Valley districts still won't be open tomorrow.

The moot point becomes toom.

 

[Kaizen]

Tyson Nash's boy was drafted in the WHL draft. Quite a number of AZ kids were drafted.

WHL Network

WHL Network

 

[awfulwaffle]

None of us want to see this type of teacher get rewarded. But the number of these teachers compared to the good ones is so comparatively small that basing opposition on a general investment in education on it is misguided in the extreme.

And it should be noted that the challenging conditions and lack of resources in education generally make it more likely that school systems hire marginally qualified people - because more qualified and able candidates lack incentive, and the pool of candidates is therefore smaller.

It also bears mentioning that, if the public school systems had administrators dedicated to education rather than as messengers for political theory, the system would be far more discerning about hiring practices and therefore more supportive of students.

Nailed it. If we don't invest in education, we will fall farther behind other states, and teachers will be more willing to move to another state to continue their career instead of staying here in Arizona.

My sister was a teacher here in Arizona, and she mentioned that in Avondale, she had a print quota, she had to do her own lamanating, etc. After moving to Texas, they have someone staffed there that will take care of the laminating for teachers, they don't have print quotas, and all the teachers have to do is submit the document that needs to be printed and the person running the print area prints everything off and gets it together for the teacher.

It is night and day between Arizona and their education, compared to other states.