Are you happy with the direction of the organization?

[Mess]

So there's honour in getting the 1st pick if you're just bad, but if you actively realize what you have isn't good enough going forward and that you need to break it down and start again, it taints future success?.

Yes, that is the just of it.

However ownership sees it the opposite. When a GM comes in and his mouth writes cheques that his butt can't cash by promising success but delivering only failure, then they show him the door. Integrity is questioned by lying and trying to to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. GM incompetence doesn't trump trying but failing miserably, as the honourably thing to do. .

But when they hire competent management that tells them this team isn't very good, and they approve "scorched earth" to tear it down to the ground and begin again then the organization is fully on board and 100% endorsing the course of action, by willing to accept the losses in the present in hopes it pays off in the future. Shanny & company will not be judged nor questioned about the salvage and recovery phase that currently exists, but when they are expected to start bringing wining results in the future.

The majority of the fan base are also on board with the draft rebuild process and understand that comes with dealing present players for future returns and accepting the expected consequences of the resulting win-loss column. This is common place and practice in all such processes. This is all about the ends justifying the means.

The Blackhawks have won 3 cups in 6 years by being bad during their rebuild years, and getting core building blocks Toews and Kane to fuel that success today.

 

[666]

I happened to be flipping channels yesterday and saw a graphic where Chicago's top 5 players consumed more cap than the entire Leafs team that was on the ice and all the other Canadian teams were icing about $55M in cap and the Leafs were around $32M.

Why do you think that is?

Also someone was mentioning that by not watching I'm missing Rielly develop. Why aren't I missing Nylander develop? That guy already performed in a mens league last season and yet he's still not in the show. But I know your reponses already and it will be that management feel he'll develop better in the AHL when the real answer is that he would help the NHL team too much and it will be harder to get a top 4 pick.

The key to your misguided perspective is that management are pros so that we can't possibly second guess them. If they say Nylander should be in the AHL it's gospel. But all you have to do is understand that the real objective is to lose intentionally and if you think for yourself it becomes very obvious. Let's face it, management has basically admitted it, yet many of you don't believe it. Why do you think that is?

 

[pooleboy]

I would like to have a conversation with the 10 people who said no.

 

[Liminality]

I would like to have a conversation with the 10 people who said no.

I think more than half of them don't even chat on the Leafs board so you'd have to go to their team's respective boards.

 

[ACC1224]

I would like to have a conversation with the 10 people who said no.

Why?

 

[Trapper]

I would like to have a conversation with the 10 people who said no.

IMO the vote was 60 to nothing in favour of the direction. Then someone had to come along and throw in a no vote. Then with a giggle, let's see if we can rage a debate for 30+ pages of why you should be in favour of this. How many more can we get.
Now I could be wrong, this could be an actual view point in which case they will just have to pretend to be happy if the Leafs go on to win the Cup. Celebrating under protest.

 

[Mad Brills*]

All that matters is if shanahan has ownership approval for the rebuild, which he does with larry, and that's all that matters.

 

[BayStreetBully]

I happened to be flipping channels yesterday and saw a graphic where Chicago's top 5 players consumed more cap than the entire Leafs team that was on the ice and all the other Canadian teams were icing about $55M in cap and the Leafs were around $32M.

Why do you think that is?

Also someone was mentioning that by not watching I'm missing Rielly develop. Why aren't I missing Nylander develop? That guy already performed in a mens league last season and yet he's still not in the show. But I know your reponses already and it will be that management feel he'll develop better in the AHL when the real answer is that he would help the NHL team too much and it will be harder to get a top 4 pick.

The key to your misguided perspective is that management are pros so that we can't possibly second guess them. If they say Nylander should be in the AHL it's gospel. But all you have to do is understand that the real objective is to lose intentionally and if you think for yourself it becomes very obvious. Let's face it, management has basically admitted it, yet many of you don't believe it. Why do you think that is?

If you want to argue that the Leafs would like the #1 pick, that's fine. If you want to argue that this lacks integrity, you are out to lunch.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I happened to be flipping channels yesterday and saw a graphic where Chicago's top 5 players consumed more cap than the entire Leafs team that was on the ice and all the other Canadian teams were icing about $55M in cap and the Leafs were around $32M.

Why do you think that is?

Also someone was mentioning that by not watching I'm missing Rielly develop. Why aren't I missing Nylander develop? That guy already performed in a mens league last season and yet he's still not in the show. But I know your reponses already and it will be that management feel he'll develop better in the AHL when the real answer is that he would help the NHL team too much and it will be harder to get a top 4 pick.

The key to your misguided perspective is that management are pros so that we can't possibly second guess them. If they say Nylander should be in the AHL it's gospel. But all you have to do is understand that the real objective is to lose intentionally and if you think for yourself it becomes very obvious. Let's face it, management has basically admitted it, yet many of you don't believe it. Why do you think that is?

Considering you're very insistent that the Leafs do not become another Edmonton-like situation, it's funny you bring up Nylander. Because playing Nylander in the NHL right now, or at the start of the season, is going down the path of what the Oilers have done - just thrown their young players into the NHL with little support or development. So rather than keeping him down just to lose, perhaps they're actually doing it to avoid the scenario that you fear the most. They're developing him in the minors to round out his game and allow him to physically mature. Also considering Nylander was concussed in late December and is just returning to action. I wouldn't say it's smart to put him in at a higher level right now anyway.

 

[Mess]

But all you have to do is understand that the real objective is to lose intentionally and if you think for yourself it becomes very obvious. Let's face it, management has basically admitted it, yet many of you don't believe it. Why do you think that is?

Mike Babcock, introduced as coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs on Thursday, warned Maple Leafs fans to be ready for some pain.

"I look forward to the process, the battle, the pain, the fun, the journey," Babcock said. "It's going to be a long one but it's going to be a lot of fun. If you think there is no pain coming, there is pain coming."

Babcock is regarded as one of the League's best coaches. But he is a coach, not a miracle worker. The Maple Leafs had 68 points this season, fourth-fewest in the League. Building them into a consistent Stanley Cup contender will take time. But that's OK by Babcock, who said he's not in it for the quick fix.

https://www.nhl.com/news/babcock-intends-to-change-culture-of-maple-leafs/c-768504

Honesty is often linked to integrity when accepting the situation for what it is. Babcock coaches to win every game, but accepts and acknowledges the situation for what it is.

I'm with the coach ... No pain no gain !!!

 

[Jack Bauer]

I happened to be flipping channels yesterday and saw a graphic where Chicago's top 5 players consumed more cap than the entire Leafs team that was on the ice and all the other Canadian teams were icing about $55M in cap and the Leafs were around $32M.

Why do you think that is?

Also someone was mentioning that by not watching I'm missing Rielly develop. Why aren't I missing Nylander develop? That guy already performed in a mens league last season and yet he's still not in the show. But I know your reponses already and it will be that management feel he'll develop better in the AHL when the real answer is that he would help the NHL team too much and it will be harder to get a top 4 pick.

The key to your misguided perspective is that management are pros so that we can't possibly second guess them. If they say Nylander should be in the AHL it's gospel. But all you have to do is understand that the real objective is to lose intentionally and if you think for yourself it becomes very obvious. Let's face it, management has basically admitted it, yet many of you don't believe it. Why do you think that is?

Why are we dressing a $32 mil roster?

Injuries to Horton, Lupul, Bozak, JVR, Robidas.

Take away 5 of the top 7 or 8 salaries from any NHL team they end up with that sort of payroll. This isn't 2002 where if you lose $5 mil in salary you can just bring it in from elsewhere. Once you lose a big ticket salary to an injury in this system your replacements are the 700K Leipsic's and Clune's.

Nylander 'performed in a mens league'? You still don't think you can be wrong that a 19yr old will better develop in the AHL rather then in the NHL? If Winnipeg could send an Ehlers down they would...but they can't.

If anything your Nylander position shows how dysfunctional your position is. You want him in the NHL but also want him to develop to be the best he can be at 22, 25, and 28...even though almost every expert will tell you that route is by playing him at a lower level and capitalizing on his delayed free agent status which also helps his development.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Considering you're very insistent that the Leafs do not become another Edmonton-like situation, it's funny you bring up Nylander. Because playing Nylander in the NHL right now, or at the start of the season, is going down the path of what the Oilers have done - just thrown their young players into the NHL with little support or development. So rather than keeping him down just to lose, perhaps they're actually doing it to avoid the scenario that you fear the most. They're developing him in the minors to round out his game and allow him to physically mature. Also considering Nylander was concussed in late December and is just returning to action. I wouldn't say it's smart to put him in at a higher level right now anyway.

Plus the Marlies are all doing well as a team. What better development then to play well AND be on a winning team with the players along with yourself being counted on to be the future of the franchise.

What bad can come from Nylander, Brown, Kapanen, Valiev, Gauthier, etc all experiencing success together? This integrity and losing on purpose argument while ignoring the development argument is beyond laughable.

 

[Liminality]

A lot of similarities with a thread on the main board.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2030411&page=4

Proposing the idea that tanking is cheating (which is not) and seeing fans of other teams give their opinion.

I'm sure if they had a poll, it would be just as lopsided as this one.

 

[hizzoner]

There is no other route available to them if they want to get better. Management is doing a full tank but the players are giving what they have. IF the team is lucky and very good players are available when they draft and the team is perceptive enough to draft the right players then the team will be viable in 3 years or so.

 

[Discoverer]

I happened to be flipping channels yesterday and saw a graphic where Chicago's top 5 players consumed more cap than the entire Leafs team that was on the ice and all the other Canadian teams were icing about $55M in cap and the Leafs were around $32M.

Why do you think that is?

Also someone was mentioning that by not watching I'm missing Rielly develop. Why aren't I missing Nylander develop? That guy already performed in a mens league last season and yet he's still not in the show. But I know your reponses already and it will be that management feel he'll develop better in the AHL when the real answer is that he would help the NHL team too much and it will be harder to get a top 4 pick.

The key to your misguided perspective is that management are pros so that we can't possibly second guess them. If they say Nylander should be in the AHL it's gospel. But all you have to do is understand that the real objective is to lose intentionally and if you think for yourself it becomes very obvious. Let's face it, management has basically admitted it, yet many of you don't believe it. Why do you think that is?

What are your thoughts on Detroit's tendency over the last two decades or so to allow their prospects to develop slowly and, with very few exceptions, not give them full-time NHL roles until they're 21 or older? Do you think that's acceptable?

 

[Jack Bauer]

What are your thoughts on Detroit's tendency over the last two decades or so to allow their prospects to develop slowly and, with very few exceptions, not give them full-time NHL roles until they're 21 or older? Do you think that's acceptable?

Cue 6 pages of 'chicken before the egg' type arguments

Common sense and rational thought are not going to work with someone who has made up their mind already.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Cue 6 pages of 'chicken before the egg' type arguments

Common sense and rational thought are not going to work with someone who has made up their mind already.

Get ready for the incoming "Detroit iced a winning team so they didn't need to rush their prospects" reply.

 

[666]

What are your thoughts on Detroit's tendency over the last two decades or so to allow their prospects to develop slowly and, with very few exceptions, not give them full-time NHL roles until they're 21 or older? Do you think that's acceptable?

Then why has Rielly been up since he was nineteen but not Nylander?

 

[Jack Bauer]

Get ready for the incoming "Detroit iced a winning team so they didn't need to rush their prospects" reply.

While ignoring the period which allowed them to draft and develop some of the greatest players of all time to create that winning team.

Anyone older then ~33 or so will remember that up until winning in 1997 Detroit was considered the biggest choking organization in the league.

Lost in 7 to us in 93. Lost to SJ in 7 in 94. Swept by the underdog NJ in the 95 finals. Lost to the Avs in the war of a series in 96.

There was lots of growing pains after drafting Yzerman and Lidstrom and the Russians that are completely forgotten 20 years later.

 

[Ovate]

I happened to be flipping channels yesterday and saw a graphic where Chicago's top 5 players consumed more cap than the entire Leafs team that was on the ice and all the other Canadian teams were icing about $55M in cap and the Leafs were around $32M.

Why do you think that is?

Because half our team is injured?

Unless you think that Matthias, Bozak, JVR, Lupul, Michalek, and Cowen (total $23.8M in cap hit) are just faking their injuries so that the Leafs can get a better pick and replace them?

 

[Jack Bauer]

Then why has Rielly been up since he was nineteen but not Nylander?

Because hindsight doesn't offer a time machine to a new management group to go back and change the mistakes of a past regime.

 

[ACC1224]

Then why has Rielly been up since he was nineteen but not Nylander?

Did Rielly have the opportunity to play in the AHL similar to Nylander?

 

[Mess]

Yesterday we saw the Stanley Cup Hawks (assembly primarily through drafting and developing based on building a core through early draft pick) pummel our rebuilding Leafs team.

The hope of all Leaf fans is that someday in the not to distant future we can be just like them as Leafs follow the same team building path to future success.

Everything management is saying about patience leading to prosperity seems to align with teams that have been there and done that previously.

Matthews would be our Toews, Marner our Kane and Rielly our Keith and Nylander our Panarin types and soon we will have a group of young core talent, that grows together.

Things are starting to take shape and Leafs drafting #1 overall could be the anchor focal point and so accepting the losses has long term value so the path were currently on is what fuels optimism and hope.

 

[Discoverer]

Then why has Rielly been up since he was nineteen but not Nylander?

Well, for one thing, Rielly turned 20 a month before Brendan Shanahan was hired.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Yesterday we saw the Stanley Cup Hawks (assembly primarily through drafting and developing based on building a core through early draft pick) pummel our rebuilding Leafs team.

The hope of all Leaf fans is that someday in the not to distant future we can be just like them as Leafs follow the same team building path to future success.

Everything management is saying about patience leading to prosperity seems to align with teams that have been there and done that previously.

Matthews would be our Toews, Marner our Kane and Rielly our Keith and Nylander our Panarin types and soon we will have a group of young core talent, that grows together.

Things are starting to take shape and Leafs drafting #1 overall could be the anchor focal point and so accepting the losses has long term value so the path were currently on is what fuels optimism and hope.

And I think 1 thing these last few weeks will show us is that there's another high pick coming in 2017 because as we start integrating Nylander and Marner onto this team next year there will be some more growing pains. But they should be easier to stomach between the glimpses of the future that will finally start making an impact at the NHL level.