Any Idiot Can Start A Budget Thread--Melnyk and Team Finances III

[aragorn]

Re-signing Phillips probably means that Ceci will start the yr in Bingo. Whether he should or not is up for debate but he is the only defenceman on the roster now that is waiver exempt. I doubt that Ottawa takes a chance to send any other defenceman down to Bingo in fear of losing them on the waiver wire. That's basically my problem with re-signing Phillips because I think Ceci should be on the second pairing, not Phillips. Phillips can still play his role with the team but I really wish he would be a 7th defenceman but I think PM will give him second pairing minutes as a veteran & Captain or Assistant/Alternate Captain

I don't want to see any of Wiercioch, Boroweicki, Cowen or Gryba traded at this point without seeing them play more. Wiercioch has the potential to be a pretty good offensive defenceman or second pairing LD, Cowen has the potential to be a good defensive or two way defenceman as does Boroweicki & Gryba is a good shutdown defenceman.

Ceci deserves & should be the second pairing RD behind Karlsson but he may have to wait until an injury or more likely a defenceman is traded to get another shot in Ottawa. If PM keeps his shut down pairing of Cowen & Gryba together, that would mean Phillips would be in the second pairing which I`m not sure he can handle any more. Then again with this defence I`m not sure anyone else can handle second pairing minutes either other than Ceci & I prefer the younger defencemen we have to Phillips. I guess we`ll see what comes of it, hopefully, they can ease Phillips into a coaching job soon. This would be my lineup below to start the yr with Boro & Phillips as the extras but it`s more likely that Phillips replaces Ceci on the second pairing & Ceci is returned to Bingo.

Methot - Karlsson
Wiercioch - Ceci (Phillips)
Cowen - Gryba/Boroweicki

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Pointing on it's own is not a problem. Pointing, while not moving your feet and gliding slowly back to your zone while your man blows past you and gets a good scoring chance, is.

That's the issue. Phillips was trying too hard to be the orchestrator on the ice and directing the kids all the time, when he needed to pay a little more attention to his own assignments.

 

[BonkTastic]

Pointing on it's own is not a problem. Pointing, while not moving your feet and gliding slowly back to your zone while your man blows past you and gets a good scoring chance, is.

That's the issue. Phillips was trying too hard to be the orchestrator on the ice and directing the kids all the time, when he needed to pay a little more attention to his own assignments.

The pointing thing is as overblown on this site as the "Gilroy = Eating Babies" thing was.

It's reached "Meme" status here.


*EDIT*

 

[SensRus]

There is the matter of the reality of the Ottawa market: it's a small market that doesn't have much potential for growth.

I don't agree that there isn't any room for growth in our market or "fan base"

Fans respond to winning, period...they don't respond or support a mediocre team season after season while others teams strive for success season after season, and that's what the Sens are projected to be if they decide to stay on this current track of putting together a team with the limited finances that they have to use, or choose to use.

Our market is made up of a mixed bag of Habs, and Leafs, as well as a mix of other original six teams. (Understandable when many are brought up without having a team in their city to cheer for)
And those fans are bringing up kids in their households who only hear the negative about the Sens....so they to end up cheering what they know and hear from their parents.

Now here is what needs to be done as an organization to change the fan base tides, and to change the ratio of Leaf fans and Hab fans at our own home games when they play the Sens.
You can almost be sure, that if the Sens put out a great team, either winning the Cup, or challenging for it year after year, that eventually, you will see more of those Leafs/Habs fans as well as their children starting to embrace a winning team that is closer to home. The key is to change the next generations minds on who to support.

This argument I hear which sickens me is the one that says "Just be happy to have a team, and to be able to cheer for an NHL team"
Give me a ****ing break, so you are going to spend all that money on merchandise, tickets, etc. to support a team that really will never have a chance to go further than a first, second round possibly year after year....because they will always be missing that one or two pieces that is needed to reach that next level, and that piece is just a few million dollars away from our "internal budget" year after year.
How can you enjoy, or support knowing you will never reach that next level, or knowing you will never realize the feeling of cheering for that Stanley Cup winning OT goal. What's the use?
We cheer for teams to win, and to support a team that gives their fan base a chance to be on top of that sports mountain, and to be able to beat their chests in front of their rival teams.
Ottawa would go a long way, if they were able to grab that Cup before the Leafs, or Habs do.

If you want to support a farm team for the NHL, there is a league for that already, it's the AHL!

 

[Byron Bitz]

Couldn't find a Melnyk thread so il post this here. What would it take for melnyk to be forced to sell the team. He has said that he is unwilling to sell so i'm wondering what it would take for him to have no choice but to sell and is that a possibility in the near future?

 

[stempniaksen]

Couldn't find a Melnyk thread so il post this here. What would it take for melnyk to be forced to sell the team. He has said that he is unwilling to sell so i'm wondering what it would take for him to have no choice but to sell and is that a possibility in the near future?

If players cheques started bouncing I'm sure the NHL would get involved. I'd be incredibly surprised if it ever reached that point though, these aren't the Bryden years.

On this topic though, wasn't there an article out at some point that implied the Senators were on some sort of 'NHL watch list' when it came to their finances? I'm sure the league is well aware of all potential issues long before they go public.

 

[Quo]

If players cheques started bouncing I'm sure the NHL would get involved. I'd be incredibly surprised if it ever reached that point though, these aren't the Bryden years.

On this topic though, wasn't there an article out at some point that implied the Senators were on some sort of 'NHL watch list' when it came to their finances? I'm sure the league is well aware of all potential issues long before they go public.

To re-iterate what's up-thread and elsewhere whenever this comes up, the 'watch list' has been called unmitigated BS by NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/08/16...le-in-daniel-alfredsson-contract-negotiations

"Yes, it's all B.S.," Daly said in an e-mail to the Sun. "There is no 'watch list.' And there is no concern (about the Senators). And you can quote me."

 

[stempniaksen]

To re-iterate what's up-thread and elsewhere whenever this comes up, the 'watch list' has been called unmitigated BS by NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/08/16...le-in-daniel-alfredsson-contract-negotiations

Ah good, glad that turned out to be false. Like I stated earlier, I really have no worries about this team going back to the dark days (Bryden era).

 

[Ouroboros]

Couldn't find a Melnyk thread so il post this here. What would it take for melnyk to be forced to sell the team. He has said that he is unwilling to sell so i'm wondering what it would take for him to have no choice but to sell and is that a possibility in the near future?

Maybe you could get him on tape saying something racist? Might work.

 

[StefanW]

To re-iterate what's up-thread and elsewhere whenever this comes up, the 'watch list' has been called unmitigated BS by NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/08/16...le-in-daniel-alfredsson-contract-negotiations

I'm sure that is a hill that Daly would die on.

 

[Quo]

I'm sure that is a hill that Daly would die on.

It's a wonderful thing to be skeptical. You should know it's a two way street though. On the surface, that the NHL would have some sort of internal revue board for struggling franchises, keeping tabs on owners and franchises like the FBI, is pretty silly and has not been substantiated in any way by Yost or other sources.

An open mind is crucial when assessing information. However, given the paucity of corroborating sources, from the Phoenix situation to Atlanta, that such a list exists or that the franchise is in grave peril (even Melnyk at his most hyperbolic avoided that implication) I'll stick with those who should know better over a lone, unnamed source.

 

[StefanW]

It's a wonderful thing to be skeptical. You should know it's a two way street though. On the surface, that the NHL would have some sort of internal revue board for struggling franchises, keeping tabs on owners and franchises like the FBI, is pretty silly and has not been substantiated in any way by Yost or other sources.

An open mind is crucial when assessing information. However, given the paucity of corroborating sources, from the Phoenix situation to Atlanta, that such a list exists or that the franchise is in grave peril (even Melnyk at his most hyperbolic avoided that implication) I'll stick with those who should know better over a lone, unnamed source.

I actually don't disagree with this.

I don't know if there is any sort of a watch list set up by the NHL. My point was that after Daly's comment I still don't know if there is any sort of watch list set up by the NHL. This is simply because he would deny it if there was none, and he would also deny it if such a list exists.

My way around all of this is deeply rooted in the fact that I don't care one way or another. We are a budget team regardless, and we have to work to ensure we have really good contracts moving forward. A watch list means nothing.

 

[Cosmix]

Moulson was NOT going to sign here no matter what we offered him. He made it very clear that he wanted to sign back in Buffalo.

Michalek wanted to play here. He even took a paycut to play here. Our team is not attractive to free agents right now. Might as well sign the players that want to be here.

Murray said that Michalek had an offer from another team that was for "much more money and 2 years longer". The Senators offer therefore could have been more over the contract period than the other team was offering, so I don't view it as a lower annual pay cheque or pay cut.

 

[Max Power]

Not sure if this has been shared yet but it's pretty accurate

Puck Daddy's Summer of Disappointment: Ottawa Senators Edition

Love the Melnyk quotes

Eugene Melnyk is an owner for whom it can be hard to separate truth from rumor. Is he really losing as much money as he claims? Did he really launch a forensic investigation into Matt Cooke? Has he really been to African cage fights?

So rather than sift through rumors to show you why Senators fans are disappointed in Eugene Melnyk, I'll let him tell you in his own words:

“Eventually, [the salary cap] will put Ottawa on a level playing field with all the big markets . . . The one competitive advantage they had was cash. That has been taken off the table.†(2005)

“We’re going to be one of the few teams that will have the opportunity, when it comes to trade deadlines or whenever, when it requires, we’ll have [cap] space.†(2011)

“To be competitive you have to be at least in the top half of spenders. That’s a stat, it’s not just something I’ve made up . . . if you’re not you don’t have much of a chance, it’s just not going to happen.†(2013)

“Any idiot can go spend money. There are so many idiots out there that spend to the cap every year – take a look at where they are. It all comes down to cost per point. That’s the only stat I care about – cost per point.†(2014)

The Senators will likely enter 2014-15 in the NHL's bottom five in payroll. Last season, they had the fourth-best cost-per-point record () in the East.

 

[Icelevel]

ahhhh, finally someone found the quote i've been looking for,

“To be competitive you have to be at least in the top half of spenders. That’s a stat, it’s not just something I’ve made up . . . if you’re not you don’t have much of a chance, it’s just not going to happen.” (2013)

 

[The Fuhr*]

“To be competitive you have to be at least in the top half of spenders. That’s a stat, it’s not just something I’ve made up . . . if you’re not you don’t have much of a chance, it’s just not going to happen.†(2013)

June 2013 Melnyk casino bid fails
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports...ets+with+mayor+over+casino/8542830/story.html

“Any idiot can go spend money. There are so many idiots out there that spend to the cap every year – take a look at where they are. It all comes down to cost per point. That’s the only stat I care about – cost per point.†(2014)
-----

Ottawas refusal to give Melnyk a casino is what made him want to stop spending money.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

That much has been quite clear for a while

Until the casino episode there wasn't a ton of talk about internal budgets and such

 

[IBJammin]

“Any idiot can go spend money. There are so many idiots out there that spend to the cap every year – take a look at where they are. It all comes down to cost per point. That’s the only stat I care about – cost per point.†(2014)

So disappointing...

 

[Xspyrit]

Not sure if this has been shared yet but it's pretty accurate

Puck Daddy's Summer of Disappointment: Ottawa Senators Edition

Love the Melnyk quotes

Fourth-best cost-per-point record () in the East.

Team isn't as bad as HF says... but probably as poor right now.

 

[Sentient]

Since Melnyk is on record as stating that "to be competitive you need to be in the top half of spenders", by his own standards his current budget places the team firmly in the territory of no-hope bottom-feeder. The "cost per point" comments are just so much crap. How many fans does this POS expect to show up to watch the Senators raise a "cost per point" banner to the rafters - are you kidding me! I have supported this team with season ticket purchases every year since day 1 and I am now sick of this s***. I have signed up for what very well be my last set of full season tickets. I feel that by the end of next season we as fans will have a very good idea of whether Melnyk is prepared to invest in making the team competitive or whether he is just planning on extracting NHL level prices for a dressed up farm team.

I no longer care what Melnyk or his flunkies say - he used up his benefit of the doubt long ago. What he is doing is speaking so loudly and eloquently, what he is saying is just background noise. Despite all the dancing and spinning from Melnyk apologists I am convinced:

1. He is the beneficiary of major new cash flow from the national and regional television contracts
2. Little or none of that revenue is being re-invested in the team as far as I can see

I am just fed up with all the rationalizations about why I should be satisfied if not grateful that this money is flowing into Melnyk's pocket to improve debt burden, cash flow or (insert some other financial buzzword BS here). MY bottom line is that I am no longer prepared to spend to my cap to support this scheme. If he wants to run a budget team - I will become a budget fan. Instead of season tickets some much smaller and cheaper game pack (which will probably still set me up to priority buy playoff tickets if things go unexpectedly well). Take the money saved and spruce up the man cave - think BIG flat screen and maybe a hot tub. Enjoy the games at home with friends and liquid refreshments and not one dime goes to Mr. Cost per Point (while my cost per point improves dramatically). I have put plenty of money up in support of the Sens over the years but I have no further interest in fattening Melnyk's wallet while he puts up a pathetic shell of a team.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Fourth-best cost-per-point record () in the East.

Team isn't as bad as HF says... but probably as poor right now.

Got a laugh from the "cost per point" shirt for sale over at 6thSens. I wonder when the NHL will finally convert to this point system...its's really the only stat that counts!

Is there any site that has a cost per point standings updated throughout the season? As the grass root innovators of the stat we should be championing this and promoting it to all of the league

 

[jbeck5]

I'm still laughing at the cost per point quote 24 hours later. Our owner is sooo bad that sens fans and media have ongoing jokes and merchandise about it. Think about how hilariously bad that is.

Will we be looking back in a decade or 2 saying "remember the terrible melnyk years?" Or "hey at least it's not as bad as the melnyk era?" . is it going to be that bad? Is it already?

 

[StefanW]

Got a laugh from the "cost per point" shirt for sale over at 6thSens. I wonder when the NHL will finally convert to this point system...its's really the only stat that counts!

Is there any site that has a cost per point standings updated throughout the season? As the grass root innovators of the stat we should be championing this and promoting it to all of the league

Stuff like that circulates on Twitter toward the end of the season. I can't remember who does it off hand, but I will point you in that direction next year when I see it starting.

I actually want to see a cost per point option in NHL 2015. It has definitely become a bit of a meme among Sens fans.

 

[BonkTastic]

Got a laugh from the "cost per point" shirt for sale over at 6thSens.

Not going to lie, it's pretty good.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Since Melnyk is on record as stating that "to be competitive you need to be in the top half of spenders", by his own standards his current budget places the team firmly in the territory of no-hope bottom-feeder. The "cost per point" comments are just so much crap. How many fans does this POS expect to show up to watch the Senators raise a "cost per point" banner to the rafters - are you kidding me! I have supported this team with season ticket purchases every year since day 1 and I am now sick of this s***. I have signed up for what very well be my last set of full season tickets. I feel that by the end of next season we as fans will have a very good idea of whether Melnyk is prepared to invest in making the team competitive or whether he is just planning on extracting NHL level prices for a dressed up farm team.

I no longer care what Melnyk or his flunkies say - he used up his benefit of the doubt long ago. What he is doing is speaking so loudly and eloquently, what he is saying is just background noise. Despite all the dancing and spinning from Melnyk apologists I am convinced:

1. He is the beneficiary of major new cash flow from the national and regional television contracts
2. Little or none of that revenue is being re-invested in the team as far as I can see

I am just fed up with all the rationalizations about why I should be satisfied if not grateful that this money is flowing into Melnyk's pocket to improve debt burden, cash flow or (insert some other financial buzzword BS here). MY bottom line is that I am no longer prepared to spend to my cap to support this scheme. If he wants to run a budget team - I will become a budget fan. Instead of season tickets some much smaller and cheaper game pack (which will probably still set me up to priority buy playoff tickets if things go unexpectedly well). Take the money saved and spruce up the man cave - think BIG flat screen and maybe a hot tub. Enjoy the games at home with friends and liquid refreshments and not one dime goes to Mr. Cost per Point (while my cost per point improves dramatically). I have put plenty of money up in support of the Sens over the years but I have no further interest in fattening Melnyk's wallet while he puts up a pathetic shell of a team.

Good post and interesting read. It made me chortle.