Any Idiot Can Start A Budget Thread--Melnyk and Team Finances III

[StefanW]

This thread is for discussions relating to team budget, Eugene Melnyk, and team finances.

I started a new thread because we were closing in on 1000 posts in the previous budget/finances/Melnyk thread, which can be found here.

I did not reference Bonk's original open letter from a couple of threads back that started this discussion because no one is directly referencing it anymore. For anyone interested in a good read, it can be found here.

Click to read more...

 

[StefanW]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/br...-most-expensive-teams-to-watch-207777201.html

The article title is "Winnipeg Jets among most expensive pro teams to watch" , in the article claims of $118.43, the second most expensive team to watch.

Does this help?

Yeah, about that article...did you read it to the end? It, along with other local articles, actually debunks the figure you are quoting.

Ludlow said last month the Jets’ average price for 2013 is $86.25 CDN gross (including fees, taxes) and the team’s net revenue on tickets ranks it sixth among the seven Canadian NHL franchises, at less than $76.

He said he believed that ranking of sixth out of seven would hold on the gross number but he didn’t have complete data on taxes and fees in all other cities.

"The first thing I should say is that the season-ticket price numbers — this year the range is $40.17 to $132.87 (per game) — are a significant value proposition compared to walkup," Ludlow said, pointing out 13,000 seats of the building’s 15,004 capacity are sold that way.

"I think it would be difficult for a third party to be accurate about an average ticket price. I’m not trying to critique the list because that’s not my place but my guess is that it’s heavily qualified and I just don’t want to focus on it.

"On a net basis, where we rank is sixth out of seven teams in Canada."

 

[BCsensfan]

Is the hope to increase spending

Hello,

I'm a die-hard sens fan from British Columbia. Out here it is extremely difficult to get the actual scoop on the sens(melnyk's) financial situation. Most of the info I can glean is that melnyk is borderline broke which means no spending to the cap.

My question is, when listening to sports talk radio and reading new paper articles in your local paper... what does our ACTUAL situation going forward look like? Is ownership properly riding out a rebuild before spending? Is melnyk going to remain a cap floor owner for the foreseeable future? There seems to be a notion that there is money to spend when the proper situation arises... is that posturing in the media so fans don't throw in the towel? I can't imagine fans sticking around if the team fails to compete in all area's... on the ice, at the deadline and in free agency.

Pretty depressing watching what has happened to the state of our owner from a distance. I hope someone can shed some light for me... whether it be on the positive or negative positioning of our beloved franchise.. Thanks


Title was supposed to be "Is THERE hope to increase spending" my bad..

 

[SilverSeven]

The media NEVER addresses his financial situation. The budget isnt talked about either...beyond "well, we are at the internal budget"

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Melnyk has been hurting but he's still very rich

Nothing concrete on the matter of the Senators' finances however

Some of the more informed posters here seem to think there's a problem with the team's debt load so the team is spending as little as possible to get that under control

There is the matter of the reality of the Ottawa market: it's a small market that doesn't have much potential for growth. Melnyk's casino plans getting blown up by City Council trying to get votes was a huge setback because it would have helped with revenue streams that are hard to come by in a government town

Mostly though I think the team is doing ok but Eugene has come to terms with the idea that spending to the cap is something that this franchise can do indefinitely

My hope is that once the core looks ready the team will increase spending and will spend more during the window and then will wind things down again

It's not the greatest but it's a plan and one that makes sense

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Melnyk has been hurting but he's still very rich

Nothing concrete on the matter of the Senators' finances however

Some of the more informed posters here seem to think there's a problem with the team's debt load so the team is spending as little as possible to get that under control

There is the matter of the reality of the Ottawa market: it's a small market that doesn't have much potential for growth. Melnyk's casino plans getting blown up by City Council trying to get votes was a huge setback because it would have helped with revenue streams that are hard to come by in a government town

Mostly though I think the team is doing ok but Eugene has come to terms with the idea that spending to the cap is something that this franchise can do indefinitely

My hope is that once the core looks ready the team will increase spending and will spend more during the window and then will wind things down again

It's not the greatest but it's a plan and one that makes sense

Agree with all of this, pretty much exactly how i see it.

 

[Xspyrit]

Melnyk has been hurting but he's still very rich

Nothing concrete on the matter of the Senators' finances however

Some of the more informed posters here seem to think there's a problem with the team's debt load so the team is spending as little as possible to get that under control

There is the matter of the reality of the Ottawa market: it's a small market that doesn't have much potential for growth. Melnyk's casino plans getting blown up by City Council trying to get votes was a huge setback because it would have helped with revenue streams that are hard to come by in a government town

Mostly though I think the team is doing ok but Eugene has come to terms with the idea that spending to the cap is something that this franchise can do indefinitely

My hope is that once the core looks ready the team will increase spending and will spend more during the window and then will wind things down again

It's not the greatest but it's a plan and one that makes sense

Good post

Melnyk is still a billionaire, but he lost hundreds of Millions $ with Biovail. Well, he didn't lose the money because he made it in the first place, but 900 millions of his shares disappeared quickly

Biovail’s share price that pushed the value of Melnyk’s shares from $1.5 billion to little more than $600 million in just two months

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports...Senators+have+lost+million/8799118/story.html

When something like this happens, you obviously become a bit more sensitive with money. The Ottawa Senators is probably not the only Melnyk thing under a strict budget right now.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I really can't see any logic behind our current spending right now. We're currently sitting on 16 million in cap space with an entire roster of players signed, and the only team spending less than us is Calgary, a team that is tanking for McDavid next season. With our current roster odds are we're not a playoff team next season, but aren't bad enough to get a high draft pick. Because of our budget it looks like we'll finish in a mediocre position next season - just outside of the playoffs and probably outside of the top 10 picks; which means we don't make the playoffs and don't get a high-end prospect either, which is a recipe for mediocrity in the future.

I think we're spending like 3-4M less than last season, which is pathetic considering our huge revenue increases from the new TV deals. I really don't see how anyone could absolve Melnyk of blame for running this team on a cap floor budget. If the guy can't afford to pay for talent (which is hardly an excuse anymore considering we'll reportedly be making up to 40M in broadcast revenues alone next season) he shouldn't own a sports franchise.

 

[MusicTeacher]

Does the extra $26 million from the TSN TV deal help?
That'll pay for 40% of payroll...

 

[Busboy]

Melnyk has been hurting but he's still very rich

Nothing concrete on the matter of the Senators' finances however

Some of the more informed posters here seem to think there's a problem with the team's debt load so the team is spending as little as possible to get that under control

There is the matter of the reality of the Ottawa market: it's a small market that doesn't have much potential for growth. Melnyk's casino plans getting blown up by City Council trying to get votes was a huge setback because it would have helped with revenue streams that are hard to come by in a government town

Mostly though I think the team is doing ok but Eugene has come to terms with the idea that spending to the cap is something that this franchise can do indefinitely

My hope is that once the core looks ready the team will increase spending and will spend more during the window and then will wind things down again

It's not the greatest but it's a plan and one that makes sense

Pretty much this, and only this. Anything more and you're entering into extreme speculation and conspiracy theory territory.

 

[BK201]

Increase profit usually is the opposite of increasing spending.

You know what though our tickets are so cheap compared to other teams in our division at least our old division.

 

[QuietOnTheFront]

Hello,

I'm a die-hard sens fan from British Columbia. Out here it is extremely difficult to get the actual scoop on the sens(melnyk's) financial situation. Most of the info I can glean is that melnyk is borderline broke which means no spending to the cap.

My question is, when listening to sports talk radio and reading new paper articles in your local paper... what does our ACTUAL situation going forward look like? Is ownership properly riding out a rebuild before spending? Is melnyk going to remain a cap floor owner for the foreseeable future? There seems to be a notion that there is money to spend when the proper situation arises... is that posturing in the media so fans don't throw in the towel? I can't imagine fans sticking around if the team fails to compete in all area's... on the ice, at the deadline and in free agency.

Pretty depressing watching what has happened to the state of our owner from a distance. I hope someone can shed some light for me... whether it be on the positive or negative positioning of our beloved franchise.. Thanks


Title was supposed to be "Is THERE hope to increase spending" my bad..

What I honestly hope Melnyk's main idea is is that spending foolishly is not the way to go in the current NHL. He's been burned as an owner with some pricey contracts that got us nowhere closer to winning a cup (Gonchar and Kovalev). I hope that along with management he has a vision of a club that focuses on developing players and when the time comes to retaining them he will.

I really hope this is Melnyk's idea. It may be extremely optimistic, but it makes sense. The only way to lure the top dogs of free agency is to overpay in today's market, a lot of these players do not live up their massive contracts. There really is no gain in spending wildly in today's NHL as it usually will bite you in the ass. Therefore targeting good value signings, which we've done (MacA and Legwand), over massive big ticket free agents fits into our budget and may eventually make us a competitive team once the time to spend comes.

The key part of this is when the time to spend comes. Will Melnyk pony up and pay to keep our young growing core? I think this is what is tearing every Sens fan apart right now. We have no idea. There is a strong notion that Melnyk is a cheap b- who is running this team into the ground, but I think he may just be a savvy businessman who is trying to build a contender organically rather than over spending on free agents who may not ever provide a reasonable return on their contract.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I'm much more concerned with the debt load. Seems we have way more debt now than when Melynk bought the team...and it really looks like he hasn't paid much (if anything) for the team in all these years. It looks more like this has been not only a free asset for him, but an asset he can use to finance other ventures.

Something doesn't feel right on the financial side.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Melynk is 99% of the problem, but could you imagine how much more flexibility we would have had if Murray didnt lock up 2.5 to phillips for 2 years? boneheaded move.

 

[Slack]

I have no interest in this doom and gloom thread, but let me compliment you on a great thread title. Well done!

 

[Yokai]

Melynk is 99% of the problem, but could you imagine how much more flexibility we would have had if Murray didnt lock up 2.5 to phillips for 2 years? boneheaded move.

No need to imagine. The team would have exactly 2.5mil to work with. Clearly they have no plans to spend over the amount they currently have committed to the roster, but we still need to wait to see what Lehner signs for to know the final number. Ottawa tried the youth defense movement last year and it failed horribly. As long as Phillips plays a third line role he'll be fine. Take Phillips out and you've got:

Methot-Karlsson
Cowen-Wiercioch
Boro-Gryba/Ceci

That is a pretty thin looking group.

 

[BonkTastic]

Melnyk has been hurting but he's still very rich

Nothing concrete on the matter of the Senators' finances however

Some of the more informed posters here seem to think there's a problem with the team's debt load so the team is spending as little as possible to get that under control

There is the matter of the reality of the Ottawa market: it's a small market that doesn't have much potential for growth. Melnyk's casino plans getting blown up by City Council trying to get votes was a huge setback because it would have helped with revenue streams that are hard to come by in a government town

Mostly though I think the team is doing ok but Eugene has come to terms with the idea that spending to the cap is something that this franchise can do indefinitely

My hope is that once the core looks ready the team will increase spending and will spend more during the window and then will wind things down again

It's not the greatest but it's a plan and one that makes sense

I have nothing to say against any of this, but I feel the neded to point out here that the only numbers that have ever been published or made public about the debt / finances of the team are ones made public by Melnyk himself, which have never been made available for 2nd party corroboration or confirmation.

For some of us, the issue is two-fold:
1) The budget / team finances, based on the information we have available to us to scrutinize, and
2) The reliability of the source of that information, in this case - Melnyk.

No doubt the team is carrying a bad debt load, but part of the issue is also the fact that there is a part of the fanbase who, based on statements in the public record, no longer trusts Melnyk at his word.

 

[BonkTastic]

Also, thanks on not referencing my old post in the title thread... it was sidetracking the topic of conversation, which was not its original intent.

 

[Xspyrit]

No need to imagine. The team would have exactly 2.5mil to work with. Clearly they have no plans to spend over the amount they currently have committed to the roster, but we still need to wait to see what Lehner signs for to know the final number. Ottawa tried the youth defense movement last year and it failed horribly. As long as Phillips plays a third line role he'll be fine.

Yes and what a boneheaded move... What are the Sens smoking? Instead of throwing 2.5 at Phillips maybe they could have signed Gilbert for 300 000$ more!

 

[jbeck5]

That's my big concern . why sign Phillips instead of say...meszaros for a bit more?

Why sign michalek, instead or throwing a million more for a moulson?

 

[Super Cake]

That's my big concern . why sign Phillips instead of say...meszaros for a bit more?

Why sign michalek, instead or throwing a million more for a moulson?

Moulson was NOT going to sign here no matter what we offered him. He made it very clear that he wanted to sign back in Buffalo.

Michalek wanted to play here. He even took a paycut to play here. Our team is not attractive to free agents right now. Might as well sign the players that want to be here.

 

[jbeck5]

Moulson was NOT going to sign here no matter what we offered him. He made it very clear that he wanted to sign back in Buffalo.

Ok, I'd rather have vanek than michalek and greening but let's just keep re-signing our trash to big money contracts for what they offer.

 

[Super Cake]

Ok, I'd rather have vanek than michalek and greening but let's just keep re-signing our trash to big money contracts for what they offer.

Vanek wasn't going to sign here either.

Things that attract big name free agents:
1. Money
2. Contending status

We have neither at the moment. So our team is currently not attractive to free agents.

 

[dpw]

lawsuits + messy divorce + new hot young g/f = still rich but no longer billionaire status.

its the new hot young g/f that's affecting the sens budget

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

lawsuits + messy divorce + new hot young g/f = still rich but no longer billionaire status.

its the new hot young g/f that's affecting the sens budget

+ 2 young daughters right?
Kids will drain your income...but yeah, hopefully we get an owner that's more professional and discreet in the near future, Melnyk's shtick is getting old and isn't helping the team at all.