Value of: Anthony DeAngelo

[n8]

What would your team give up for ADA?

Some Rangers fans say he's going to win a Norris. Almost all of them are adamant they don't want to trade him even though they keep throwing his name into trade proposals, especially to teams that don't need him. They also deny that he has any negative character traits.

He's been suspended for extended periods in juniors (for using slurs against a teammate and abusing an official), and during his first season in the NHL (for abusing an official). He's 24 and he's been traded three times.

He's signed for two more years at $4.8 million/year, and he'll be an RFA for one more year when his contract ends.

What's your offer?

Here are his stats:

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	GP	G	A	PTS	+/-	PIM	EV	PP	SH	GW	EV	PP	SH	S	S%	TSA	TOI	ATOI	FOW	FOL	FO%	BLK	HIT	TK	GV
2016-17	21	ARI	NHL	39	5	9	14	-13	37	3	2	0	1	3	6	0	60	8.3	111	667	17:06	0	0		48	31	4	22
2017-18	22	NYR	NHL	32	0	8	8	-18	11	0	0	0	0	2	6	0	68	0.0	107	530	16:34	1	0	100.0	42	31	6	29
2018-19	23	NYR	NHL	61	4	26	30	6	77	4	0	0	0	16	10	0	111	3.6	207	1179	19:20	0	0		82	54	21	74
2019-20	24	NYR	NHL	68	15	38	53	12	47	12	3	0	3	22	16	0	149	10.1	266	1312	19:17	0	0		57	48	16	65

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

He's not winning a Norris trophy anytime soon unless Jacque Martin slips him some sort of super serum. Even so, many Ranger fans feel like his defensive play will get a boost this season now that his advanced-stats-black-hole of a partner Marc Staal is gone (even with Staal, ADA managed a +12 due to his scoring prowess). But perhaps not if he is paired with the not-as-bad-but-also-an-advanced-stats-void Jack Johnson.

A lot of the trade talk happened earlier in the season is for two reasons,
1) uncertainty of contract - which is now resolved so that is no longer an issue. His cap hit is great IMO
2) we have this amazing RD prospect by the name of Nils Lundkvist. With Trouba's NTC kicking in soon (unlikely to get traded anyway) and Fox feeling like a lock, we sort of need a slot open for this Swedish phenom (upper end, could be like OEL or Klingberg). We're very jazzed about him. ADA played LD in juniors and has publicly stated he doesn't care which side he plays on so long as he's playing and winning.

His character issues are negligible. He's a loud mouth and a Trump supporter. whatever, we can keep politics out of this. He had issues with slurs in juniors but at his draft, even Tampa's director of amateur scouting Al Murray went on the record saying they did more homework on him than any prospect in his career. He was traded at the 2016 draft simply because Yzerman wanted to move up in the draft to grab Libor Hajek who he thought was 1st round talent. Sure that could be GM talk but Yzerman insisted it was more about getting Libor than it was about trading ADA. Funny enough, the Rangers own both players. They too had their eye on him and when we traded Derek Stepan and Antii Raanta to the Coyotes, he was our asking price. We traded two great players to obtain him. I'm sure it also had to do with the fact that Arizona was not going to give up the likes of Strome, Fischer, Dvorak, or Domi at the time. So in terms of assets, Arizona held on to what were considered their best prospects at the time but they still had to give to get.

So character is a negligible issue IMO. He was traded because teams wanted him. He's that loud mouth but the type you like to have on your team always chirping at the other team's players and getting under their skin. Irritating and speaks his mind but also hysterical in the locker room. He's a pest like Sean Avery but without the embarrassing antics. He will step up and fight people. He's not the type to back down like Avery.

I think you'd have noticed that ever since his contract extension, no Ranger fans are throwing his name around. The fact that he has one more RFA period is insanely valuable. His decent cap hit for someone who put up over 50 points is also a great value. His value is only going to go up over the next few season. He may come up again in trade talks but it'll simply because his next contract is probably going to be too expensive for us, because he's going to be earning himself those big numbers with big points. For those who missed how explosively offensive he is...

 

[JT Kreider]

He's not winning a Norris trophy anytime soon unless Jacque Martin slips him some sort of super serum. Even so, many Ranger fans feel like his defensive play will get a boost this season now that his advanced-stats-black-hole of a partner Marc Staal is gone (even with Staal, ADA managed a +12 due to his scoring prowess). But perhaps not if he is paired with the not-as-bad-but-also-an-advanced-stats-void Jack Johnson.

A lot of the trade talk happened earlier in the season is for two reasons,
1) uncertainty of contract - which is now resolved so that is no longer an issue. His cap hit is great IMO
2) we have this amazing RD prospect by the name of Nils Lundkvist. With Trouba's NTC kicking in soon (unlikely to get traded anyway) and Fox feeling like a lock, we sort of need a slot open for this Swedish phenom (upper end, could be like OEL or Klingberg). We're very jazzed about him. ADA played LD in juniors and has publicly stated he doesn't care which side he plays on so long as he's playing and winning.

His character issues are negligible. He's a loud mouth and a Trump supporter. whatever, we can keep politics out of this. He had issues with slurs in juniors but at his draft, even Tampa's director of amateur scouting Al Murray went on the record saying they did more homework on him than any prospect in his career. He was traded at the 2016 draft simply because Yzerman wanted to move up in the draft to grab Libor Hajek who he thought was 1st round talent. Sure that could be GM talk but Yzerman insisted it was more about getting Libor than it was about trading ADA. Funny enough, the Rangers own both players. They too had their eye on him and when we traded Derek Stepan and Antii Raanta to the Coyotes, he was our asking price. We traded two great players to obtain him. I'm sure it also had to do with the fact that Arizona was not going to give up the likes of Strome, Fischer, Dvorak, or Domi at the time. So in terms of assets, Arizona held on to what were considered their best prospects at the time but they still had to give to get.

So character is a negligible issue IMO. He was traded because teams wanted him. He's that loud mouth but the type you like to have on your team always chirping at the other team's players and getting under their skin. Irritating and speaks his mind but also hysterical in the locker room. He's a pest like Sean Avery but without the embarrassing antics. He will step up and fight people. He's not the type to back down like Avery.

I think you'd have noticed that ever since his contract extension, no Ranger fans are throwing his name around. The fact that he has one more RFA period is insanely valuable. His decent cap hit for someone who put up over 50 points is also a great value. His value is only going to go up over the next few season. He may come up again in trade talks but it'll simply because his next contract is probably going to be too expensive for us, because he's going to be earning himself those big numbers with big points. For those who missed how explosively offensive he is...

DeAngelo was only thrown around because we really were not sure if we would be able to get him re signed with a potential cap crisis looming, which Gorton navigated beautifully. We were really not sure if we were able to get all three of Georgiev, Tony and Strome re-signed with DeAngelo being the most expendable of the three due to Fox and Trouba, and Lundkvist on the way.

We should be thrilled with how this offseason went, even though it was a very quiet UFA period and losing Fast who ended up signing a bargain contract in Carolina.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I mean the Coyotes just dealt with this situation where they take a guy despite his character issues and it comes back to haunt them. The whole point is that ADA's value is not as high as it would be based solely on his ability because many teams won't want to take on the headache that he is.

You might be right that DeAngelo's non-hockey views effect his trade value, and I think it actually probably does. I say that as a fan of the player and a fan of the team he plays for.

The irony in all of this is that his trade value is likely not effected by how the team views his opinions outside of hockey. NHL teams don't think they are the moral police based on past actions and political opinions. We saw with the Arizona draft pick that they didn't hold his past actions against drafting him. Many teams around the league that would've drafted the player didn't see it as something that should effect his draft stock. It's certain fans and media that think they have the right to impose their own views on everyone else that will call for the team and the player to be cancelled. The backlash from those who are intolerant ends up effecting DeAngelo's value.

There's no doubt that many teams simply don't want to deal with the backlash of responding to or constantly discussing with DeAngelo when he retweets something that people with certain political opinions will call racist or a hoax or any term that they want. I'm not naive enough to believe otherwise, despite how ridiculous I think all of that is.

Thats okay. We'll keep the player. We don't need to trade DeAngelo. He performs very well for us.

 

[Dack]

It doesn’t work like that, Bouchard > Valimaki and we got our capable veteran offensive defencemen with barrie as you’ve already noted. Next year bouchard will take over barries spot if he doesn’t re-sign with us.
I didn’t miss the gaudreau part and basically explained your basis of not wanting to trade him is based on a fantastical scenario of Kreider not being worth his contract . He scored 45 in 63 and is signed long term, key words: being signed long term is the reason why a Kreider and Gaudreau swap makes sense. It wouldn’t make sens for the flames if they had the same term. He will provide to more of that badass persona the Flames team wants with Monahan, Big Save dave, Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm, Gio and now Kreider


No offence but I’ve probably watched more flames games than you since Gio left for the KHL. I watch every flames game unless they overlap with the Oilers. Gio is weak defensively and ADA is on par with him and actually outperforming him at the same age.

Again of course ADA is outperforming him at the same age, Gio was barely an NHL defenseman at the same age, if all players developed at the same rate this might actually be relevant.

Valimaki, isn't much lower quality of a prospect than Bouchard, they've produced similarly in all but there draft seasons where Bouchard had a big edge. Valimaki was injured last year but is currently considered the best d man in Liiga after missing a year of hockey. What does it matter if you have Barrie and Bouchard when we have Gio and Valimaki to take over the same spot, again Valimaki has produced very well everywhere he has gone and is going to be on our team this season. you guys have an heir apparent that's untradeable but our similar level prospect (who's been playing the right side in Finland) should be thrown into a trade.


No Kreider having more term doesn't make him worth Gaudreau lmfao. You do realize that he had 45 points in 63 games while the third highest on-ice shooting percentage over expected in the NHL (AKA he massively overperformed with an 11.74 on-ice shooting percentage) and saw a drop in many of his on-ice impacts. I never said he's not worth his contract today, he's a good player I said I don't want Krieder (The power forward who relies on his athleticism) on the books when he starts falling off (ages 33-35 when he's still signed for 6.5 million a year.


How are you going to include Monahan in the Flames "badass persona"? The guy with one career fight, who doesn't really hit? If you're watching as many games as you say you are you might want to get your eyes checked, also I've read your posts on Markstrom and clearly by signing him the Flames disagree so I highly doubt Rittich is currently part of what the Flames are building.

Also show me statistically how Gio is weak defensively, you keep saying this but the stats don't back it up.


I don't want TDA, I don't know of any fans on the Flames board that think he's a good fit, it's just you.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

According to Rangers fans both Fox and DeAngelo will alternate norris trophies the next 10 years.

In real life both are 2nd pair guys.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

According to Rangers fans both Fox and DeAngelo will alternate norris trophies the next 10 years.

In real life both are 2nd pair guys.

Can you post some proof where anyone has suggested that DeAngelo will win a Norris? I don't even think anyone has suggested Fox will win a Norris, but thats a little more believable. Still, post some proof of that. I doubt it was said.

Calling Fox a second pair guy is like calling Provorov a second pair guy. I'm sure you'd have no problem with someone saying that.

 

[Kupo]

According to Rangers fans both Fox and DeAngelo will alternate norris trophies the next 10 years.

In real life both are 2nd pair guys.

ADA’s defensive shortcoming (which are overblown) will prevent him from being a legit top-pairing dmen.

Fox is a different breed though. His defensive IQ is through the roof and he’s pretty freaking good offensively right now. While he likely won’t become a superstar 1D, he absolutely has 1st pairing potential. And I think we’ll see that sooner rather than later.

 

[bl02]

According to Rangers fans both Fox and DeAngelo will alternate norris trophies the next 10 years.

In real life both are 2nd pair guys.

who said that? and where? please let me know if you find the post.
Not now but Fox can surely become a good first pairing right dman. Right now at 22 years old and one year in the league he is a terrific second pairing dman already.

 

[bl02]

His recent actions put his value low and he was on pace for 64 points.

If I'm the Rangers, I let this blow over and let him do what he does best and that's produce on the ice as a really good OFD.

Agreed I'm looking forward to having a 25 year old RHD that is going to put up 50-60 points this coming season and run a top 5 powerplay while also having to drag around one of the worst dmen in hockey like he did last season.

 

[One Winged Angel]

According to Rangers fans both Fox and DeAngelo will alternate norris trophies the next 10 years.

Receipts?

In real life both are 2nd pair guys.

What would we ever do with your uncanny ability to prognosticate, Nostradamus?

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

I love how all of the self righteous haters on this thread act as if they have never done or said anything stupid.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

According to Rangers fans both Fox and DeAngelo will alternate norris trophies the next 10 years.

You wanna link those posts or are you just making shit up?

 

[bernmeister]

....
DeAngelo + 1 guaranteed 2nd in 2023 and 2 conditional 3rds in 2023+2024 (contingent on the flames making the playoffs in 202z/2023 and 2023/2024 seasons)


Rights to Kylington
Valimaki
2022 cgy 1st

With this trade the Rangers can maintain their tuffness on the winger position and set them up for the future while not receiving much salary in return while the flames get what looks like to me a current #1RD and replacement for Gio.

you think this is fair?

I think it is an honest counter, but I would rather have the earlier 1st and pick up our own prospects.

I have never been one to shy from adding pieces to a prop, but contrary to erroneous perception, it is never just for the sake of doing so. It is only to provide a necessary degree of balance.
IMO my prop was more balanced, less pieces.
If more pieces = better win win, then thumbs up;
however,
if all things are =, then simpler is better.

My counter stands, pending whether or not any other team steps up w/an offer.

Good Lord that's awful

And needlessly complicated with the superfluous picks

Calgary can't afford ADA without offloading salary of their own

Did I mention that it's awful....?

Part of the virtue of my counter is a largely balanced cap
DeA = 4.8
for
picks = no cap hit
avoid signing Kylington
cap dump Derek Ryan = 3.125

I mean that's pretty close cap wise, no?

...

2. Deangelo has massive defensive issues, he's not a Gio replacement lol, he's a great offensive d man who doesn't have much of an all around game so far, our actual closest thing to a Gio replacement is the 22 year old future top pairing D man you're throwing into your second proposal.
.... Bern posted a semi reasonable if not what we need right now proposal and you took out 2 seconds and added our best prospect. You're aren't arguing in good faith.

Disagree on eval of ADA def. Offense is his prowess, but he is not incompetent/black hole defensively. Also, the once brilliant Marc Staal, once the best pure shutdown D in the league getting all the tough top assignments, now, post concussions, post eye injury, is but a shell of his former glory. DeA will benefit from no longer dragging the anchor that is now Staal.

Thank you for the honest eval.
Whether or not this is a good deal/what Flames need should be viewed in context of what is given vs what is received.
Talent wise, you are getting cap neutral deal, guaranteed win on talent up front, which arguably is a fit since you are stronger on LD and OP presses need to replace Gio near term. So respectfully, analysis suggests the questions are:
* am I better overall with the prospects -- factor in time for prospects to get ready, as well as risk factor someone drafted disappoints.
* is the add going to throw off the existing roster, and I would say no, esp since Gio is 37,
* cap implications - none immediate, and DeA would be cheap thru anticipated time to get thru the covid situation after which mo revenue = mo $ available for roster upgrades.

Calgary doesn’t have the cap space.

If they do my counter, they do.
DeA 4.8 balanced by Ryan 3.125 + Kylington.
In fact, I guess Kylington gets a little more and they come out a tad ahead $ wise.

 

[SlafCaufield]

I think Trouba is better than D'Angelo so my offer would be less



D'Angelo
2nd round pick (2022)



Tatar (re-signed)
Vejdemo
3rd round pick (2021)

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I think Trouba is better than D'Angelo so my offer would be less



D'Angelo
2nd round pick (2022)



Tatar (re-signed)
Vejdemo
3rd round pick (2021)

Terrible. Tatar is not at all what the Rangers need. And the Rangers are not giving up the higher pick

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I wouldn't take him on the Canes even if the Rangers gave us Kakko for free with him, not even kidding. He's the exact type of person you don't want in your locker room for any reason. There's a reason Tampa moved on from him so easily.

 

[JoVel]

He's a ticking time bomb who'll have a Leipsic-type controversy around him sooner or later. There's a reason teams have given up on him rather easily. Wouldn't take him on Tampa for free.

 

[tomobson]

I wouldn't take him on the Canes even if the Rangers gave us Kakko for free with him, not even kidding. He's the exact type of person you don't want in your locker room for any reason. There's a reason Tampa moved on from him so easily.

But everyone in the Ranger's locker room loves him?

 

[Jerzey Devil]

I’d love him in NJ but it would cost too much to trade for him.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

But everyone in the Ranger's locker room loves him?

It doesn't matter. They know DeAngelo very well because they don't agree with his views he expresses on twitter.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think Trouba is better than D'Angelo so my offer would be less



D'Angelo
2nd round pick (2022)



Tatar (re-signed)
Vejdemo
3rd round pick (2021)

Trouba may be better. We'll have to see Trouba play better than DeAngelo because last year DeAngelo was probably the better of the two players. However, when you consider contracts, I don't know how its even close. DeAngelo has way more value right now. We don't need your spare parts. If you want DeAngelo, you are going to need to offer up a center like Kotkaniemi, Suzuki, or Danault for the discussion to get started.

 

[SlafCaufield]

Trouba may be better. We'll have to see Trouba play better than DeAngelo because last year DeAngelo was probably the better of the two players. However, when you consider contracts, I don't know how its even close. DeAngelo has way more value right now. We don't need your spare parts. If you want DeAngelo, you are going to need to offer up a center like Kotkaniemi, Suzuki, or Danault for the discussion to get started.

When you look at what the Rangers traded to get Trouba, I don't think any of those pieces would need to be in play for De Angelo - regardless of what the superfans want to think

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

When you look at what the Rangers traded to get Trouba, I don't think any of those pieces would need to be in play for De Angelo - regardless of what the superfans want to think

I'm not sure your point makes any sense.

Are we not talking about a DeAngelo trade? What does Trouba have to do with what a DeAngelo looks like? Also, Trouba gave Winnipeg a list of teams he would accept a trade to that probably wasn't more than 3-4 teams, limiting what they can get back. What they got back was a first round pick and a young top 4 defenseman. If you want to say that a DeAngelo trade would be equivalent to what the Trouba trade was, which I don't agree with but will go along with for the sake of this argument, you are trading us a young top 4 defenseman (or equivalent at forward positions) and a first round pick. The equivalent would be something like Suzuki/Kotkaniemi+1st.

 

[Djp]

I think it is an honest counter, but I would rather have the earlier 1st and pick up our own prospects.

I have never been one to shy from adding pieces to a prop, but contrary to erroneous perception, it is never just for the sake of doing so. It is only to provide a necessary degree of balance.
IMO my prop was more balanced, less pieces.
If more pieces = better win win, then thumbs up;
however,
if all things are =, then simpler is better.

My counter stands, pending whether or not any other team steps up w/an offer.




Part of the virtue of my counter is a largely balanced cap
DeA = 4.8
for
picks = no cap hit
avoid signing Kylington
cap dump Derek Ryan = 3.125

I mean that's pretty close cap wise, no?




Disagree on eval of ADA def. Offense is his prowess, but he is not incompetent/black hole defensively. Also, the once brilliant Marc Staal, once the best pure shutdown D in the league getting all the tough top assignments, now, post concussions, post eye injury, is but a shell of his former glory. DeA will benefit from no longer dragging the anchor that is now Staal.

Thank you for the honest eval.
Whether or not this is a good deal/what Flames need should be viewed in context of what is given vs what is received.
Talent wise, you are getting cap neutral deal, guaranteed win on talent up front, which arguably is a fit since you are stronger on LD and OP presses need to replace Gio near term. So respectfully, analysis suggests the questions are:
* am I better overall with the prospects -- factor in time for prospects to get ready, as well as risk factor someone drafted disappoints.
* is the add going to throw off the existing roster, and I would say no, esp since Gio is 37,
* cap implications - none immediate, and DeA would be cheap thru anticipated time to get thru the covid situation after which mo revenue = mo $ available for roster upgrades.



If they do my counter, they do.
DeA 4.8 balanced by Ryan 3.125 + Kylington.
In fact, I guess Kylington gets a little more and they come out a tad ahead $ wise.

You think kyl gets $1.7M ? Think again. More money to Calgary than leaving.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

When you look at what the Rangers traded to get Trouba, I don't think any of those pieces would need to be in play for De Angelo - regardless of what the superfans want to think

Since when does a previous trade influence current trade value?