Value of: Anthony DeAngelo

[bernmeister]

Okay people, everybody has had a chance to within if not beyond the boundaries make their points about ADA off ice issues. For some they are a nothing burger and for others they have signif.

As I said in prior post dominant consideration for most clubs will be value esp short term at <5m x 2 yrs seeking production from RD, versatile to LD also.

-------------
With this in mind can we now focus on what constructive discourse gets us a couple of interesting win win deals?

_______________

...
DeAngelo with all of his warts ... Remarkable season by him and I see him as a serviceable replacement to gio when he eventually retires so my solution is this:

Chris Kreider, Anthony DeAngelo, 5th

Gaudreau, Andersson, Bennett and a 3rd?

Rangers lose toughness for skill with the Kreider/Gaudreau swap but makes up for with Andersson and Bennett, both of which are among the most toughest players in the league with some skill (not vending machines like rinaldo). To me it looks pretty even.

Haven't micro crunched this to 9th degree, I applaud what appears on surface attempt to give to get.

Still. must vote no as is, b'c I wanna keep Kreider and NY needs his tufness. However, I would like to explore counter-proposal. NY's interests best served w/max # of competing bids.

Inclusion of Andy is signif, and tho that doesn't help much w/future cap mgmt unless we can then move Trouba which is problematic short term, he is an asset under contract for long term. Granted, I don't think we'd have a prob moving him. I appreciate you including him, but shoe on the other foot, I think Flames need to keep him at present.

I think we may both be best served with futures. I also remember some on your side required something that at least contributes to cap neutral for current yr at min. With that in mind...

In a prior thread, someone from your side approved something like this:
(disclaimer, I don't remember who or what the package was exactly)

Deangelo 4.8 x 2 + conditional 2023 + 2024 3rds
for
2021 CGY 1st
Kylington rfa rights
cap dump Derek Ryan, 3.125 expiring
+ conditional 2023 + 2024 2nds

The conditional picks would have 2 yrs of Flames upgrading Rangers from 3rds to 2nds, x 2, but would be dependent on
- if Deangelo extended
- statistical measure of production reaching mutually agreed targets

NY gets bankable futures in universally useful currency;
Kylington possible add for LD mix;
can see what if Ryan has in the tank, can send down/deal etc if not much

Flames get their guy while keeping core roster.

Deal?

 

[bernmeister]

That wasn’t me, but I’ve seen other HFNYR members who have mentioned Zubov’s name.

Thank you for the clarification, I stand corrected as to it (not) being directly attributed to you and I am validated other HFNYR's established the comparison.

 

[Dack]

Okay people, everybody has had a chance to within if not beyond the boundaries make their points about ADA off ice issues. For some they are a nothing burger and for others they have signif.

As I said in prior post dominant consideration for most clubs will be value esp short term at <5m x 2 yrs seeking production from RD, versatile to LD also.

-------------
With this in mind can we now focus on what constructive discourse gets us a couple of interesting win win deals?

_______________




Haven't micro crunched this to 9th degree, I applaud what appears on surface attempt to give to get.

Still. must vote no as is, b'c I wanna keep Kreider and NY needs his tufness. However, I would like to explore counter-proposal. NY's interests best served w/max # of competing bids.

Inclusion of Andy is signif, and tho that doesn't help much w/future cap mgmt unless we can then move Trouba which is problematic short term, he is an asset under contract for long term. Granted, I don't think we'd have a prob moving him. I appreciate you including him, but shoe on the other foot, I think Flames need to keep him at present.

I think we may both be best served with futures. I also remember some on your side required something that at least contributes to cap neutral for current yr at min. With that in mind...

In a prior thread, someone from your side approved something like this:
(disclaimer, I don't remember who or what the package was exactly)

Deangelo 4.8 x 2 + conditional 2023 + 2024 3rds
for
2021 CGY 1st
Kylington rfa rights
cap dump Derek Ryan, 3.125 expiring
+ conditional 2023 + 2024 2nds

The conditional picks would have 2 yrs of Flames upgrading Rangers from 3rds to 2nds, x 2, but would be dependent on
- if Deangelo extended
- statistical measure of production reaching mutually agreed targets

NY gets bankable futures in universally useful currency;
Kylington possible add for LD mix;
can see what if Ryan has in the tank, can send down/deal etc if not much

Flames get their guy while keeping core roster.

Deal?

He's an Oilers fan who makes awful trade proposals for CGY to try and get a reaction. We don't want TDA. If we get him we're paying 4 + million for one of our RD on the bottom pairing, we'd be in the same situation the Rangers are already in.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

He's an Oilers fan who makes awful trade proposals for CGY to try and get a reaction. We don't want TDA. If we get him we're paying 4 + million for one of our RD on the bottom pairing, we'd be in the same situation the Rangers are already in.

There’s no need to speak for me, its a fantasy situation made up by one of the other flames posters and you guys are running away with it like some gospel. He would literally be the 2nd best defenceman and a couple years from now when gio is done would take the #1 spot.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

Deangelo 4.8 x 2 + conditional 2023 + 2024 3rds
for
2021 CGY 1st
Kylington rfa rights
cap dump Derek Ryan, 3.125 expiring
+ conditional 2023 + 2024 2nds

The conditional picks would have 2 yrs of Flames upgrading Rangers from 3rds to 2nds, x 2, but would be dependent on
- if Deangelo extended
- statistical measure of production reaching mutually agreed targets

NY gets bankable futures in universally useful currency;
Kylington possible add for LD mix;
can see what if Ryan has in the tank, can send down/deal etc if not much

Flames get their guy while keeping core roster.

Deal?

Glad you can appreciate the effort I tried to put in to make an equal and fair trade. I can sya the same.

Regarding the bolded I know you guys want to dump salary so I am more inclined to agree with that one with maybe a couple small adds.


DeAngelo + 1 guaranteed 2nd in 2023 and 2 conditional 3rds in 2023+2024 (contingent on the flames making the playoffs in 202z/2023 and 2023/2024 seasons)


Rights to Kylington
Valimaki
2022 cgy 1st

With this trade the Rangers can maintain their tuffness on the winger position and set them up for the future while not receiving much salary in return while the flames get what looks like to me a current #1RD and replacement for Gio.

you think this is fair?

 

[Dack]

There’s no need to speak for me, its a fantasy situation made up by one of the other flames posters and you guys are running away with it like some gospel. He would literally be the 2nd best defenceman and a couple years from now when gio is done would take the #1 spot.

That's great. We lose our 2nd best defenceman (who's signed very reasonably for 6 years) and turn two years of Gaudreau into a downgrade in Kreider who's signed longterm to a contract that will be awful in a few years. On top of that we give up a guy who just had a great playoffs and we add the higher pick? What an opportunity!


I made it clear in my last post why no Flames fans want TDA. Also the previous post about Gio not being known for his defense is hysterical, he's 5th in the league in rel xGA/60 over the last 3 years, he's literally one of the best defenders in the league but hey I expect nothing less.


Oh nice you turned a proposal that's been suggested a bunch by Bern and doesn't really work for us and made it way worse for us.

 

[CraigsList]

He is better than tanev and he has proven that this past season so yes he would slot to the top of the RD position on the flames. Tanev would slot in as one of the top #3 defenders in the league when healthy. Obviously points is not everything and no offence but Gio is not necessarily known for his defending prowess and won primarily because he contributed 74 points in 78 games, so what you’re saying is kind of funny to me.

? Gio was one of the best defenders during that year. What are you talking about?

And I put Tanev or Andersson on the top pairing before I even consider ADA going there.

and we’re not even talking about the crap character he already is. Has all the skill in the world, but if you don’t have character then you aren’t going to be a Flame. Recipe for success? Jury is out, but I do know that Treliving says hell no to any kind of DeAngelo trade.

get back to your fantasy trade drawing board, it’s not working.

and that’s not even factoring ADA’s crap character. The Flames don’t go after players like that.

get back to your fantasy trade drawing board. It’s not flying for Flames fans.

 

[Mal Reynolds]

DeAngelo + 1 guaranteed 2nd in 2023 and 2 conditional 3rds in 2023+2024 (contingent on the flames making the playoffs in 202z/2023 and 2023/2024 seasons)


Rights to Kylington
Valimaki
2022 cgy 1st

Good Lord that's awful

And needlessly complicated with the superfluous picks

Calgary can't afford ADA without offloading salary of their own

Did I mention that it's awful....?

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

That's great. We lose our 2nd best defenceman (who's signed very reasonably for 6 years) and turn two years of Gaudreau into a downgrade in Kreider who's signed longterm to a contract that will be awful in a few years. On top of that we give up a guy who just had a great playoffs and we add the higher pick? What an opportunity!


I made it clear in my last post why no Flames fans want TDA. Also the previous post about Gio not being known for his defense is hysterical, he's 5th in the league in rel xGA/60 over the last 3 years, he's literally one of the best defenders in the league but hey I expect nothing less.

Ok so finally some substance instead of cheap, made up pot shots. A couple points I have and my response will be to the bolded.

1) You lose your 2nd best defencemen who would be a #4 on the rangers and replace him with a defenceman who would again be your second best defender and clear Gio replacement when he retires. So my reaction to that part is

because you’re just making my case stronger.
Regarding Gaudreau, it’s better to trade him and get something for him before he leaves for nothing. You also have no clue how that Kreider contract will turn out.

2) You’re not the arbiter for flames fans and there are many other people that seems think that he would be a great flame. Tanev is no #2 defensemen in my opinion and would excel being the #4. ADA will rightfully push him down 1 slot so you’ll be a much deeper team.

 

[Dack]

Ok so finally some substance instead of cheap, made up pot shots. A couple points I have and my response will be to the bolded.

1) You lose your 2nd best defencemen who would be a #4 on the rangers and replace him with a defenceman who would again be your second best defender and clear Gio replacement when he retires. So my reaction to that part is
View attachment 375663
Regarding Gaudreau, it’s better to trade him and get something for him before he leaves for nothing.

2) You’re not the arbiter for flames fans and many other people seems to think that he would be a great fit on the flames. Tanev is no #2 defensemen and TDA will rightfully push him down 1 slot so you’ll be a much deeper team

1. Andersson is young and is a 2nd pairing dman who may be a top pairing d man in the future. If we're trading Gaudreau to get something it will be for futures not for an older worse player signed until they're 35 for approximately as much money. I'd let Gaudreau walk for free before taking back a likely negative value contract, but you were proposing a Seabrook trade to the Flames last week so I'm not surprised.

2. Deangelo has massive defensive issues, he's not a Gio replacement lol, he's a great offensive d man who doesn't have much of an all around game so far, our actual closest thing to a Gio replacement is the 22 year old future top pairing D man you're throwing into your second proposal.


3. I know far more about the Flames assets and needs than you do. Do any Flames fans think it would be a great fit? The reason it gets proposed so much is because the Rangers insiders suggested it was being discussed, that was before the draft, before the Tanev (who rightly or wrongly will be used as a 2nd pairing guy, we aren't paying 4.5 million for him to play 18 minutes a night on the 3rd pairing) signing.


You don't deserve anything but cheapshots, Bern posted a semi reasonable if not what we need right now proposal and you took out 2 seconds and added our best prospect. You're aren't arguing in good faith.

 

[violaswallet]

I don’t see why ADA will be traded for political reasons: while my home city of NYC is liberal, I somehow doubt that the fans of the NHL team care enough that he expressed his views? I could totally see the problem say in basketball where fans and players have much more liberal political views on average

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

1. Andersson is young and is a 2nd pairing dman who may be a top pairing d man in the future. If we're trading Gaudreau to get something it will be for futures not for an older worse player signed until they're 35 for approximately as much money. I'd let Gaudreau walk for free before taking back a likely negative value contract, but you were proposing a Seabrook trade to the Flames last week so I'm not surprised.

2. Deangelo has massive defensive issues, he's not a Gio replacement lol, he's a great offensive d man who doesn't have much of an all around game so far, our actual closest thing to a Gio replacement is the 22 year old future top pairing D man you're throwing into your second proposal.


3. I know far more about the Flames assets and needs than you do. Do any Flames fans think it would be a great fit? The reason it gets proposed so much is because the Rangers insiders suggested it was being discussed, that was before the draft, before the Tanev (who rightly or wrongly will be used as a 2nd pairing guy, we aren't paying 4.5 million for him to play 18 minutes a night on the 3rd pairing) signing.


You don't deserve anything but cheapshots, Bern posted a semi reasonable if not what we need proposal and you took out 2 seconds and added our best prospect. You're aren't arguing in good faith.

1) In my proposal you’re trading Andersson for a completely different, less rugged player in ADA who imo is comparable to what gio was doing at his age, maybe even better after watching both play. So yes, I think he has the potential to be as good as gio and be his eventual replacement. I believe in him more than what I believed in Hamilton at the time he was traded to the flames.

As for the bolded that’s a fabrication, the whole point of a team getting better is hoping your prospects become as good as some players currently are. There is a premium to pay for a defenceman who will instantly be on the top pair, the Rangers are not desperate like the Knights were so I would think that trading a “What could be” for a proven asset is a clear win for the flames. Clearly we’re not on the same wavelength, but that’s crazy to me.

 

[JT Kreider]

100% Spot On.

The OP took his shots at ADA in the Eichel thread. Then the non-Eichel NYR/BUF thread. Then he was shitting in ADA in the twitter thread. And now he created this thread so he can continue his rant.

His intentions are quite clear.

Like if we are going to talk about anyone winning a Norris we got Adam f***ing Fox

 

[Fatass]

Kid has skills, but what’s he like as a teammate?

 

[JT Kreider]

Also I dont know why this got deleted. I never knew the details of his ref abuse suspension and I just looked it up for the first time and I'm dying laughing that this is some great condemnation of his character

 

[Dack]

1) In my proposal you’re trading Andersson for a completely different, less rugged player in ADA who imo is comparable to what gio was doing at his age, maybe even better after watching both play. So yes, I think he has the potential to be as good as gio and be his eventual replacement. I believe in him more than what I believed in Hamilton at the time he was traded to the flames.

As for the bolded that’s a fabrication, the whole point of a team getting better is hoping your prospects become as good as some players currently are. There is a premium to pay for a defenceman who will instantly be on the top pair, the Rangers are not desperate like the Knights were so I would think that trading a “What could be” for a proven asset is a clear win for the flames. Clearly we’re not on the same wavelength, but that’s crazy to me.


Weird post, Canada is not a socialist country and he would be a great flame.

If he's so good why don't the Oilers trade Bouchard and a first + for him? You guys only have Bear down the right side and Barrie who after a year will want big money, he seems like a great fit. We on the other hand don't want to trade a cost controlled RD for him, and you skipped over big parts of the post about why the trade makes literally no sense. Like trading Gaudreau for what will in short time be a bad contract and adding for that privilege.


Also you weren't watching Gio at 24 don't lie, you've already said he's not good defensively which is completely wrong so I don't think you actually know anything about him. Also secondly who gives a f*** if Deangelo is better at the same age, Gio's progression is unique in that he kept improving well into his 30s. Most d-men currently in the NHL were better than Giordano at the same age.

Finally no you aren't arguing in good faith, a Rangers fan came up with a trade that he thought was fair value and you then countered with the Flames adding big time to the trade. If you were actually trying to make the Flames better you'd say something like "if that's good for you I think the Flames would do that", but that's not what you did, you instead changed the trade to have much more value moving to the Rangers.

 

[JT Kreider]

Kid has skills, but what’s he like as a teammate?

Beloved in the locker room..?

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

Typical HF playbook

All your players suck Rangers fan

We won't give anything for them

Team trades for a Rangers player

What a steal. He was misused and is great now.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

He's a very talented, good player, but his tendency to be outspoken will limit his market, as will his warts and his redundancy to certain organizations. I'll be honest, even though the Sens could really use a player like him (probably more than 80% of teams), I would stay away at any price. I'm not so delusional as to think that there arent people with opinions like him in every locker room, but I think the difference is outspokenness and aggressiveness of opinion. He just seems like a confrontational dude, which isnt something I want inside the locker room.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

If he's so good why don't the Oilers trade Bouchard and a first + for him? You guys only have Bear down the right side and Barrie who after a year will want big money, he seems like a great fit. We on the other hand don't want to trade a cost controlled RD for him, and you skipped over big parts of the post about why the trade makes literally no sense. Like trading Gaudreau for what will in short time be a bad contract and adding for that privilege.


Also you weren't watching Gio at 24 don't lie, you've already said he's not good defensively which is completely wrong so I don't think you actually know anything about him. Also secondly who gives a f*** if Deangelo is better at the same age, Gio's progression is unique in that he kept improving well into his 30s. Most d-men currently in the NHL were better than Giordano at the same age.

It doesn’t work like that, Bouchard > Valimaki and we got our capable veteran offensive defencemen with barrie as you’ve already noted. Next year bouchard will take over barries spot if he doesn’t re-sign with us.
I didn’t miss the gaudreau part and basically explained your basis of not wanting to trade him is based on a fantastical scenario of Kreider not being worth his contract . He scored 45 in 63 and is signed long term, key words: being signed long term is the reason why a Kreider and Gaudreau swap makes sense. It wouldn’t make sens for the flames if they had the same term. He will provide to more of that badass persona the Flames team wants with Monahan, Big Save dave, Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm, Gio and now Kreider


No offence but I’ve probably watched more flames games than you since Gio left for the KHL. I watch every flames game unless they overlap with the Oilers. Gio is weak defensively and ADA is on par with him and actually outperforming him at the same age.

 

[JT Kreider]

Typical HF playbook

All your players suck Rangers fan

We won't give anything for them

Team trades for a Rangers player

What a steal. He was misused and is great now.

Even though the Rangers cut bait on most of their players at the perfect time other than Miller who would never have reached a PPG ceiling here in NY,
and McDonagh when taking contract into account. Mac will be great for Tampa's window of the next 2 or so years but then that contract becomes a huge problem while the Rangers hopefully are just opening their own window.

Stepan blows, Brassard has been on half the teams in the league since, Nash couldn't even finish out the rest of the season without another concussion, Grabner did nothing in NJ and just got bought out, Zucc is on a horrible contract and will never come close to living up to it in Minnesota, etc.

 

[Djp]

Okay people, everybody has had a chance to within if not beyond the boundaries make their points about ADA off ice issues. For some they are a nothing burger and for others they have signif.

As I said in prior post dominant consideration for most clubs will be value esp short term at <5m x 2 yrs seeking production from RD, versatile to LD also.

-------------
With this in mind can we now focus on what constructive discourse gets us a couple of interesting win win deals?

_______________




Haven't micro crunched this to 9th degree, I applaud what appears on surface attempt to give to get.

Still. must vote no as is, b'c I wanna keep Kreider and NY needs his tufness. However, I would like to explore counter-proposal. NY's interests best served w/max # of competing bids.

Inclusion of Andy is signif, and tho that doesn't help much w/future cap mgmt unless we can then move Trouba which is problematic short term, he is an asset under contract for long term. Granted, I don't think we'd have a prob moving him. I appreciate you including him, but shoe on the other foot, I think Flames need to keep him at present.

I think we may both be best served with futures. I also remember some on your side required something that at least contributes to cap neutral for current yr at min. With that in mind...

In a prior thread, someone from your side approved something like this:
(disclaimer, I don't remember who or what the package was exactly)

Deangelo 4.8 x 2 + conditional 2023 + 2024 3rds
for
2021 CGY 1st
Kylington rfa rights
cap dump Derek Ryan, 3.125 expiring
+ conditional 2023 + 2024 2nds

The conditional picks would have 2 yrs of Flames upgrading Rangers from 3rds to 2nds, x 2, but would be dependent on
- if Deangelo extended
- statistical measure of production reaching mutually agreed targets

NY gets bankable futures in universally useful currency;
Kylington possible add for LD mix;
can see what if Ryan has in the tank, can send down/deal etc if not much

Flames get their guy while keeping core roster.

Deal?

Calgary doesn’t have the cap space.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Some Rangers fans say he's going to win a Norris.

No they don't. No more than some Buffalo Sabres fans think Rasmus Ristolainen will win a Norris (actually, there would be more of those).

 

[Fatass]

Beloved in the locker room..?

I thought Ranger fans could shed a little light on ADa as he’s seen by his teammates.

 

[Heckler81]

I mean the Coyotes just dealt with this situation where they take a guy despite his character issues and it comes back to haunt them. The whole point is that ADA's value is not as high as it would be based solely on his ability because many teams won't want to take on the headache that he is.

The guy from Arizona is on a whole other level compared to ADA. ADA was a douche in his early years. He wasn’t making a kid eat candy that came out of a toilet bowl. ADA didn’t severely bully a kid in HS. The Arizona kid is a borderline psychopath.