Player Discussion Anthony DeAngelo (Mod warning in OP and post 197. READ IT)

[NYR Viper]

DeAngelo should be playing with either Smith or Staal right now. There's really no question. I'm hoping to see him about half way through the year in NY

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

DeAngelo should be playing with either Smith or Staal right now. There's really no question. I'm hoping to see him about half way through the year in NY

Theres not? Hmmm

 

[NYR Viper]

Theres not? Hmmm

He received a shorter leash than Kampfer has who provides little to no offense.

 

[silverfish]

Do people really believe they sent him to the AHL and told him to forgo offense to focus on his defense and that's why he has 2 points in 10 games? Come on.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

He received a shorter leash than Kampfer has who provides little to no offense.

Tough argument when Kampfer has one less point.

 

[GAGLine]

He received a shorter leash than Kampfer has who provides little to no offense.

I'm sure the fact that Kampfer is playing and ADA is in Hartford has nothing to do with their offense. What we see on TV is only a small part of what the coaches see, so to say that ADA had a shorter leash is probably not accurate. We aren't seeing everything they are doing without the puck. We aren't seeing what they are doing in practice. We don't know everything they are supposed to be doing in AVs system. What might look perfectly fine to us on TV might be completely wrong in the given situation. And let's not forget that Ruff is handling the defense. I'm sure he has lots of say regarding who is playing.

 

[Trxjw]

Do people really believe they sent him to the AHL and told him to forgo offense to focus on his defense and that's why he has 2 points in 10 games? Come on.

It's an extremely common situation with players who have gotten by on offense alone for their entire career. So, yes, I do believe it's a possibility.

 

[silverfish]

It's an extremely common situation with players who have gotten by on offense alone for their entire career. So, yes, I do believe it's a possibility.

So we believe that the Hartford Wolf Pack are sacrificing one of their best offensive talents and purposefully making themselves worse? I have a very hard time believing this. I'm not watching the games, so I'll defer to someone who is. Is ADA:

Not playing on the PP?
Instead of rushing the puck up ice, is he dumping it in and not carrying it often?
How long is he holding on to the puck when he has it?

He's got 21 shots on goal in his 10 games. 2.1 per game. That's the 2nd highest among all Hartford d-men behind Sproul. Doesn't really seem to me like they're purposefully limiting his offense. But, I"m just stat-surfing.

Who is watching the games? Who knows for sure?

The excuses we come up with, man, they baffle me. It's okay to be underwhelmed by your own players. He's gotten off to a very slow start this season. It sucks. We don't need to make excuses for it, though.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

He received a shorter leash than Kampfer has who provides little to no offense.

Was the problem with this team when DeAngelo was in the lineup more about lack of offense or inability to defend?

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

So we believe that the Hartford Wolf Pack are sacrificing one of their best offensive talents and purposefully making themselves worse? I have a very hard time believing this. I'm not watching the games, so I'll defer to someone who is. Is ADA:

Not playing on the PP?
Instead of rushing the puck up ice, is he dumping it in and not carrying it often?
How long is he holding on to the puck when he has it?

He's got 21 shots on goal in his 10 games. 2.1 per game. That's the 2nd highest among all Hartford d-men behind Sproul. Doesn't really seem to me like they're purposefully limiting his offense. But, I"m just stat-surfing.

Who is watching the games? Who knows for sure?

The excuses we come up with, man, they baffle me. It's okay to be underwhelmed by your own players. He's gotten off to a very slow start this season. It sucks. We don't need to make excuses for it, though.

I'm not watching the games but multiple accounts on twitter that tweet about the game and plays in the game say he's been active offensively. I want to watch games but im not paying $200 to see ADA and Chytil

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Was the problem with this team when DeAngelo was in the lineup more about lack of offense or inability to defend?

Both. We were a dumpster fire in the first week or so. I think it's not fair to rate anyone on that first stretch or the stretch where we one 7 or 8 straight. realistically we are somewhere in the middle

 

[silverfish]

I'm not watching the games but multiple accounts on twitter that tweet about the game and plays in the game say he's been active offensively. I want to watch games but im not paying $200 to see ADA and Chytil

This is what I tend to believe. I don't think there's any way the Rangers send ADA to Hartford with the mission to forgo offense for defense. Maybe they told him they want to see stronger play in the defensive zone from him, that's entirely possible, but there's noooooooooo way they're "limiting" him to the point that it's an excuse for 2 points in 10 games. And as someone in the thread said earlier, it's a small sample size. He goes off in one game, and he's right back to where he should be.

Why can't we just say that he's been underwhelming?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

So we believe that the Hartford Wolf Pack are sacrificing one of their best offensive talents and purposefully making themselves worse? I have a very hard time believing this. I'm not watching the games, so I'll defer to someone who is. Is ADA:

Not playing on the PP?
Instead of rushing the puck up ice, is he dumping it in and not carrying it often?
How long is he holding on to the puck when he has it?

He's got 21 shots on goal in his 10 games. 2.1 per game. That's the 2nd highest among all Hartford d-men behind Sproul. Doesn't really seem to me like they're purposefully limiting his offense. But, I"m just stat-surfing.

Who is watching the games? Who knows for sure?

The excuses we come up with, man, they baffle me. It's okay to be underwhelmed by your own players. He's gotten off to a very slow start this season. It sucks. We don't need to make excuses for it, though.

It's a discussion. Not excuses. Like you said, nobody really has any real insight how he is playing since nobody seems to watch the games anymore so we are just speculating different things.

 

[Trxjw]

So we believe that the Hartford Wolf Pack are sacrificing one of their best offensive talents and purposefully making themselves worse? I have a very hard time believing this. I'm not watching the games, so I'll defer to someone who is. Is ADA:

Not playing on the PP?
Instead of rushing the puck up ice, is he dumping it in and not carrying it often?
How long is he holding on to the puck when he has it?

He's got 21 shots on goal in his 10 games. 2.1 per game. That's the 2nd highest among all Hartford d-men behind Sproul. Doesn't really seem to me like they're purposefully limiting his offense. But, I"m just stat-surfing.

Who is watching the games? Who knows for sure?

The excuses we come up with, man, they baffle me. It's okay to be underwhelmed by your own players. He's gotten off to a very slow start this season. It sucks. We don't need to make excuses for it, though.

I think you're confusing what I'm saying, and that's probably my fault because I write lazy posts from my phone. I'm saying that it's entirely common for a team to say to a player "work on your defense" and for that player to have difficulty adapting their game to new responsibilities. I'm not trying to imply that they deliberately put him in a role that doesn't take advantage of his abilities.

I'm just saying he's likely going to take time to find the middle ground, and dips in his production are completely normal.

 

[UnSandvich]

Unfortunately, it's somewhat difficult to gauge performance in the AHL aside from the use of eye test, because they don't release a lot of statistics, TOI among them. The volume he's shooting at leads one to believe that perhaps it's just a string of bad luck, because he's previously done a good job of generating rebounds. All I can tell from the game report is that he was on the ice with Sproul and with Gilmour when goals were scored. Assuming Graves still plays on HFD's 1st pair, this means ADA is getting either 2nd or 3rd pairing minutes, and unless he's with Sproul, he doesn't exactly have a good linemate.

 

[eco's bones]

I have a tendency to think that when a young player makes the team out of camp and plays several games--he's pretty close. We all know what the start of the year was like--it was shit and DeAngelo did not play very well--he had a lot of company on that but being a young player and with defensive issues didn't help him and practically every coach is going to start looking for different combinations when his team is losing and the young guys are scrutinized the hardest. Chytil went first.

I don't think DeAngelo's offensive skills have disappeared--more like the production isn't there and FWIW Graves, Pionk and Sproul aren't exactly setting the AHL on fire either. Depth at the forward positions in Hartford is not that good. The goaltending has not been that good and when you're chasing games constantly players get exasperated and it can get harder to score goals.

 

[silverfish]

I think you're confusing what I'm saying, and that's probably my fault because I write lazy posts from my phone. I'm saying that it's entirely common for a team to say to a player "work on your defense" and for that player to have difficulty adapting their game to new responsibilities. I'm not trying to imply that they deliberately put him in a role that doesn't take advantage of his abilities.

I'm just saying he's likely going to take time to find the middle ground, and dips in his production are completely normal.

I can get behind this.

 

[NYR Viper]

Was the problem with this team when DeAngelo was in the lineup more about lack of offense or inability to defend?

Was the inability to defend ADA's fault?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Both. We were a dumpster fire in the first week or so. I think it's not fair to rate anyone on that first stretch or the stretch where we one 7 or 8 straight. realistically we are somewhere in the middle

Fair enough. But the defensive structure of this team did repair itself when DeAngelo came out of the lineup. I just think too many people on the board are married to one type of defenseman. Guys who can "drive offense." That kind of redundancy isnt a good thing when a guy cant stop a nosebleed when the puck eventually comes back the other way. The Rangers have a much better version of DeAngelo in Shattenkirk and I think his signing, more than anything, torpedoed ADA staying in the lineup from the outset.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Was the inability to defend ADA's fault?

Nothing is totally someone's fault (unless you are AV, apparently), but the answer to your question is - yes, partially.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Do people really believe they sent him to the AHL and told him to forgo offense to focus on his defense and that's why he has 2 points in 10 games? Come on.

His defense was a known question mark at the time of the trade but what I think also hurts him is that he is a offensive defensemen minus a hard shot from the point. His skating is very polished. He can also pass. I think if he had a harder point shot coaches might give him a longer leach in regards to defensive miscues.

 

[NYR Viper]

Nothing is totally someone's fault (unless you are AV, apparently), but the answer to your question is - yes, partially.

I can understand wanting a player to develop more. I don't understand seeing a kid with nice upside in a position of clear value to both this organization and others not play in favor of Steve Kampfer

His defense was a known question mark at the time of the trade but what I think also hurts him is that he is a offensive defensemen minus a hard shot from the point. His skating is very polished. He can also pass. I think if he had a harder point shot coaches might give him a longer leach in regards to defensive miscues.

I don't think his shot is bad. He has a knack for getting the puck through and he shoots with his head up. He doesn't need to be able to shoot 100 mph if his shots get through and create rebounds and deflections

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I can understand wanting a player to develop more. I don't understand seeing a kid with nice upside in a position of clear value to both this organization and others not play in favor of Steve Kampfer

I wont argue that Kampfer is a better player than DeAngelo, but I will argue that the current makeup of the defense seems to work better with Kampfer in the lineup for now. Hes a stay at home guy who has been fairly steady and plays with an edge. When guys like Shattenkirk, McDonagh, and Skjei can chip in offensively, I think the dynamic that was missing earlier in the season was more in Kampfer's wheelhouse. With ADA in the lineup, the probability of the game turning into a track meet goes up, and that was not kind to the team the first few weeks.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Fair enough. But the defensive structure of this team did repair itself when DeAngelo came out of the lineup. I just think too many people on the board are married to one type of defenseman. Guys who can "drive offense." That kind of redundancy isnt a good thing when a guy cant stop a nosebleed when the puck eventually comes back the other way. The Rangers have a much better version of DeAngelo in Shattenkirk and I think his signing, more than anything, torpedoed ADA staying in the lineup from the outset.

Correlation vs causation. I think DeAngelo played well enough defensively to stay in the lineup. I think the rumors of AV being fired and a weaker schedule lead to the winning streak and tightening up the defense. We just weren’t ready for the season to start.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I don't think his shot is bad. He has a knack for getting the puck through and he shoots with his head up. He doesn't need to be able to shoot 100 mph if his shots get through and create rebounds and deflections

You have a point. Some guys who rack up a ton of points from rebounds do not have very hard point shots so maybe I should have been more specific. He hasn't shown the kind of shot that has produced a huge amount of points from the point. If you have a "offensive defensemen" to play he has to produce enough to overcome his defensive weakness. We had a guy a few years back that was considered a offensive defensemen because he shot every thing in sight. Despite his solid shot he did not really put up a lot of points. Since he did not produce points his defensive short comings were not overcome so he was a journeyman. I have been very impressed with AD skating. His feet are as polished as anyone on our team. I want to see him make it big for us. While I want him to get better defensively I think he should also concentrate on watching videos of guys like Leetch, Rafalski, Housely, etc so that he can also improve his offensive production.