Andrew copp

[norrisnick]

It's wild that people think Copp was signed under a belief he was anything other than who he's always been. He's a defensively sound half a point per game 2/3C. The kind of guy a coach can trust to play in any situation if needed and not be a complete trainwreck. Can he carry offensively? Of course not, never could. Is he expensive? Yup, but that's what the market was in '22. He's gonna ride out this contract and coach will never say a bad word about him, because he's a good soldier and takes any assignment given to him. And then he'll sign an extension...

 

[wingerdinger]

Not at all. The UFA market is so incredibly thin, we would just be throwing the same money at some other players of relatively equal caliber.

I genuinely do not understand why fans seem to think we are going to be rescued by some white knight UFAs if we only save every potential dime of cap space. It isn't going to happen, sorry.

Don't care about the cap more so the term, cap space combo. We lost all our flexibility to make moves, trades included, when we tie ourselves to these mediocre players for 3+ years to contracts no other team would offer.

While stunting our own prospects that have higher ceilings than these donkeys. Example it's a joke that Edvinsson isn't on the team while I have to watch some of these clowns.

 

[wingerdinger]

Not particularly, no. Definitely not to the hyperbolic extremes exhibited here on HFboards.

It's two copies of the same player. With one getting more PP time and a bit more time with offensively gifted wingers. Likely because one is shooting way above his career average as a Wing and the other well below. Once averages normalize... it's a wash.

Here's a nice example of this dynamic in play. Take the prevailing opinions of Veleno and Rasmussen's play this season. Then look at their statlines.

View attachment 795349

There's some weird shit going on in people's heads where pre-conceived notions or expectations or hateboners or whatever else is clouding the view of what's actually happening.

There's more to hockey than counting stats. Veleno has carried play, been a lot better on zone exits and entries.

Stats are apart of the story, but I do believe when evaluating players there needs to be a combination between the eye test and the stats.

 

[SantosHalper]

Hes gonna have to. Why make any draft picks then. This team only takes a step up once the kids are inserted

Because none of them(except Ed) is ready to play in NHL, let alone carry the team. Next summer we'll see where they at, i can only see Edvinsson and Berggren starting in NHL next season. The rest stay in GR.

 

[Henkka]

Don't care about the cap more so the term, cap space combo. We lost all our flexibility to make moves, trades included, when we tie ourselves to these mediocre players for 3+ years to contracts no other team would offer.

Ehh... what is this crap?

We still have flexibility, there's 4 million in cap space for flexibility and some pending UFA is easy to move for extra flexibility.

And there's 30M flexibility for next summer.

 

[19 for president]

Ehh... what is this crap?

We still have flexibility, there's 4 million in cap space for flexibility and some pending UFA is easy to move for extra flexibility.

And there's 30M flexibility for next summer.

There is flexibility in the sense we could replace a current player with a different one of the same price range but the Wings 30 mil in flexibility next season is largely an illusion.

Conservative Estimates on RFAs: (18.5 mil)
Seider- 8 mil per
Ray- 6 mil per
Ras- 1.75 mil per
Veleno- 1.75 mil per (one of Ras/Veleno could be a little cheaper vs the other a little more expensive)
Berggren- 1 mil

That takes us to 76 mil spent add in ED and that is up to 76.9. So that leaves you 10.6 mil at an 87.5 cap to fill 3/4 forward spots. The Wings would barely be able to bring back Kane, Sprong, Ghost, and Fischer on their current deals, and 3 of the 4 are likely looking for raises.

Realistically if the Wings want to improve the roster in any area they will need to deal out a contract like Copp (Fabbri, Chiarot, Holl, Petry, Maata, Husso are other options) to upgrade any spot over what we currently have and maybe even to maintain better pieces for next year.

 

[letsgowings9999]

Because none of them(except Ed) is ready to play in NHL, let alone carry the team. Next summer we'll see where they at, i can only see Edvinsson and Berggren starting in NHL next season. The rest stay in GR.

Johansson will be 23 soon I think hes ready to play a role. Mazur plays a style I think can get him into the lineup as well and soderblom with his size can be useful and I think hes one of those players who plays better in the nhl with better players

Either way we need to see these kids by seasons end for a stretch of 3-5 games and see what we have. We need to move players to make this happen. Were far from a playoff team

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Don't care about the cap more so the term, cap space combo. We lost all our flexibility to make moves, trades included, when we tie ourselves to these mediocre players for 3+ years to contracts no other team would offer.

While stunting our own prospects that have higher ceilings than these donkeys. Example it's a joke that Edvinsson isn't on the team while I have to watch some of these clowns.

You seriously think that was the first offer Yzerman made to him and that no one else in the league wanted him? I would encourage you to study how markets work. When we signed him our second line center was literally Michael Rasmussen. If your expectation is that a noncompetitive team will be able to sign whatever UFA they want for less than three years (especially players hitting UFA status for the first time), you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Copp isn't stunting or blocking anyone.

 

[heyfolks]

The development process used by the Wing is often said to be better to long than too short in the minors. The League is getting younger, so this approach needs to be modified accordingly. Copp had a craer year to get that contract. More solid than Abby, but still Abby 2.0.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

The development process used by the Wing is often said to be better to long than too short in the minors. The League is getting younger, so this approach needs to be modified accordingly. Copp had a craer year to get that contract. More solid than Abby, but still Abby 2.0.

https://www.ahltv.com/#/

There is absolutely nothing in GR that belongs in the NHL except for Ed

 

[SantosHalper]

Johansson will be 23 soon I think hes ready to play a role. Mazur plays a style I think can get him into the lineup as well and soderblom with his size can be useful and I think hes one of those players who plays better in the nhl with better players

Either way we need to see these kids by seasons end for a stretch of 3-5 games and see what we have. We need to move players to make this happen. Were far from a playoff team

I don't see Johansson as nearly as ready people here see, today is actually he's 23 b-day. No games in NHL yet either and Wings are stacked with LHDs, he's gonna start in GR next year. Unless he gets traded in the summer, personally i don't see much use for him other being a tradebait. Edvinsson is better and Wallinder will be better, and then there is still Walman and Chiarot.

I think by end off a season Mazur will look even more readier but he's gonna be the 1st call up next season. Fabbri gets traded at the 2025 TDL or he gets injured for rest of the season, then Mazur gets his spot.

Söderblom is not NHL player unfortunately, next season in GR and after that it's either 1-year extension or back to Sweden.

And i agree im sure the kids gets to play some games after the TDL if Wings are sellers but a good off-season training often does wonders so i believe that Yzerman leaves one spot open for the kids next season.

Yzerman signs a plug forward, Tyler Johnson or someone like that. And a PTO guy, just in case if the kids ain't ready and if the kids ain't ready, PTO becomes a 13th forward. And the plug takes the line up spot. But if one of kids is ready to play, the plug becomes 13th forward and PTO gets released. And i have a feeling that there is a kid who makes the team next year and that's Berggren, he should work out like possessed next off-season.

Kid/Plug - Larkin - Ray
Cat - Comp - Kane
Fabbri - Veleno - Sprong
Ras - Copp - Fischer
Plug/PTO

Walman - Seider
Chiarot - Ghost
Ed - Petry
Holl

 

[Gniwder]

I don't see Johansson as nearly as ready people here see, today is actually he's 23 b-day. No games in NHL yet either and Wings are stacked with LHDs, he's gonna start in GR next year. Unless he gets traded in the summer, personally i don't see much use for him other being a tradebait. Edvinsson is better and Wallinder will be better, and then there is still Walman and Chiarot.

I think by end off a season Mazur will look even more readier but he's gonna be the 1st call up next season. Fabbri gets traded at the 2025 TDL or he gets injured for rest of the season, then Mazur gets his spot.

Söderblom is not NHL player unfortunately, next season in GR and after that it's either 1-year extension or back to Sweden.

And i agree im sure the kids gets to play some games after the TDL if Wings are sellers but a good off-season training often does wonders so i believe that Yzerman leaves one spot open for the kids next season.

Yzerman signs a plug forward, Tyler Johnson or someone like that. And a PTO guy, just in case if the kids ain't ready and if the kids ain't ready, PTO becomes a 13th forward. And the plug takes the line up spot. But if one of kids is ready to play, the plug becomes 13th forward and PTO gets released. And i have a feeling that there is a kid who makes the team next year and that's Berggren, he should work out like possessed next off-season.

Kid/Plug - Larkin - Ray
Cat - Comp - Kane
Fabbri - Veleno - Sprong
Ras - Copp - Fischer
Plug/PTO

Walman - Seider
Chiarot - Ghost
Ed - Petry
Holl

Burger has to clear waivers next season, so he will be on the roster if he's not traded. Kane and Sprong need new contracts. Mazur will be in GR next season, Burger is in GR putting up way more points than Mazur.

But it's basically the same team next season, with the same results, lol. If they can;t make the playoffs this season, then might as well not watch next year at all.

 

[letsgowings9999]

I don't see Johansson as nearly as ready people here see, today is actually he's 23 b-day. No games in NHL yet either and Wings are stacked with LHDs, he's gonna start in GR next year. Unless he gets traded in the summer, personally i don't see much use for him other being a tradebait. Edvinsson is better and Wallinder will be better, and then there is still Walman and Chiarot.

I think by end off a season Mazur will look even more readier but he's gonna be the 1st call up next season. Fabbri gets traded at the 2025 TDL or he gets injured for rest of the season, then Mazur gets his spot.

Söderblom is not NHL player unfortunately, next season in GR and after that it's either 1-year extension or back to Sweden.

And i agree im sure the kids gets to play some games after the TDL if Wings are sellers but a good off-season training often does wonders so i believe that Yzerman leaves one spot open for the kids next season.

Yzerman signs a plug forward, Tyler Johnson or someone like that. And a PTO guy, just in case if the kids ain't ready and if the kids ain't ready, PTO becomes a 13th forward. And the plug takes the line up spot. But if one of kids is ready to play, the plug becomes 13th forward and PTO gets released. And i have a feeling that there is a kid who makes the team next year and that's Berggren, he should work out like possessed next off-season.

Kid/Plug - Larkin - Ray
Cat - Comp - Kane
Fabbri - Veleno - Sprong
Ras - Copp - Fischer
Plug/PTO

Walman - Seider
Chiarot - Ghost
Ed - Petry
Holl

Johansson won't be back in grand Rapids. Pretty sure I read somewhere hed go back to sweden and I dont blame him. None of these kids can be expected to play when yzerman brings in all these guys.

we need to move guys to play some kids and see what we have. Wallinder is still a question mark. Walman might end up pricing himself out if he continues to get stats and demands 7+ longterm. Maata chiarot etc... have 0 longterm future in Detroit and should be moved asap

mazur probably starts in g.r with the way yzerman has been doing things but if he plays a handful games and plays good with the style he plays it wouldnt shock me to see him in the lineup game 1

Think soderblom with his size cracks the lineup. Can see him being at least a 15-20 goal guy

1 spot open for the kids next season? That's it? I dont know this team will only get good when the kids start getting inserted in and we need to do it gradually. We can't make kasper danielson mazur soderblom join the lineup in 2 years at the same time with barely any nhl experience and be shocked after that were a bottom 10 team

Tyler johnson? Jesus christ lol pass ... last thing I want is yzerman to go nuts unless guys are moved out. Hes shown he wont move guys regardless what hes said. Berggren should already be on the team this year and got screwed over by yzerman's off season

That roster you put is basically the same one this year and were a mess. It would be the same story next season

 

[wingerdinger]

You seriously think that was the first offer Yzerman made to him and that no one else in the league wanted him? I would encourage you to study how markets work. When we signed him our second line center was literally Michael Rasmussen. If your expectation is that a noncompetitive team will be able to sign whatever UFA they want for less than three years (especially players hitting UFA status for the first time), you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Copp isn't stunting or blocking anyone.

Im saying no one would offer him that deal at this moment. That we couldnt move him if we wanted to without eating a chunk of his salary.

We shouldnt have bought high on a 2nd/3rd line tweener and we should have had the discipline to wait for a deal that works for us. Like the DeBrincat deal.

When Im talking about stunting develop I'm not just talking about the Copp deal. Signing all these bottom 5-6 dmen blocking edvinsson is horrible asset management.

 

[Ricelund]

It's wild that people think Copp was signed under a belief he was anything other than who he's always been. He's a defensively sound half a point per game 2/3C. The kind of guy a coach can trust to play in any situation if needed and not be a complete trainwreck. Can he carry offensively? Of course not, never could. Is he expensive? Yup, but that's what the market was in '22. He's gonna ride out this contract and coach will never say a bad word about him, because he's a good soldier and takes any assignment given to him. And then he'll sign an extension...

This. People treat Copp like Weiss 2.0. Weiss was signed to be a clear cut 2C. Copp wasn't.

 

[Gniwder]

This. People treat Copp like Weiss 2.0. Weiss was signed to be a clear cut 2C. Copp wasn't.

Yeah, I'm sure that's why everyone gave me so much shit last season when I said Copp isn't a 2C. He's the 3rd highest paid forward, and second highest paid center. Whatever he's signed to be, he isn't living up to his contract.

Not sure why so many people are trying to defend the contract, it's going to look worse every season. Copp's game is on a downtrend, not sure if it's age or the core injury but he's gone totally soft and barely touches anyone now.

As for contract comparison, it's probably closer to Nielsen than Weiss. The last 2 years will be horrendous.

 

[wingerdinger]

This. People treat Copp like Weiss 2.0. Weiss was signed to be a clear cut 2C. Copp wasn't.

Then we shouldnt have paid him 2nd line money.

 

[SantosHalper]

But it's basically the same team next season, with the same results, lol.

Yeah but the other option is to blow it up and we know that's not going to happen.

Johansson won't be back in grand Rapids. Pretty sure I read somewhere hed go back to sweden and I dont blame him.

Well bye.... weak character.

we need to move guys to play some kids and see what we have. Wallinder is still a question mark. Walman might end up pricing himself out if he continues to get stats and demands 7+ longterm. Maata chiarot etc... have 0 longterm future in Detroit and should be moved asap

Walman most likely prices himself out but that's not going to happen until 2026, by then Wallinder will be ready. Chiarot and Määttä has been acquired to play certain role in Detroit and AlJo isn't playing that role. Ghost is the man to beat, by the looks of it Johansson is no where near doing that.

Detroit is already the softest team in NHL, take Chiarot away and Wings manages to become even softer. Wings really cannot afford to send Seider and Ed to go after all the rats. And Chiarot been good this season, the hate is ridiculous. Määttä will be moved, to make room for Ed.

Think soderblom with his size cracks the lineup. Can see him being at least a 15-20 goal guy

He's not even in a 10-goal pace in AHL right now. He needs more work before we can even consider him in Fischer's role.

1 spot open for the kids next season? That's it? I dont know this team will only get good when the kids start getting inserted in and we need to do it gradually. We can't make kasper danielson mazur soderblom join the lineup in 2 years at the same time with barely any nhl experience and be shocked after that were a bottom 10 team

Technically 2, one spot goes to Ed.

This team will never get good if all the kids gets just "inserted" in the lineup, especially when they ain't ready. Perfect way to ruin a prospect, a la Edmonton, Buffalo.

That roster you put is basically the same one this year and were a mess. It would be the same story next season

Like i said only other option is to blow it up and that's not happening. Only mess is the goalies and defensive structure. First one will be fixed, second part is up to Fester. Wings has scored 3rd most goals in NHL, offence doesn't need much change and i believe Edvinsson brings a necessary change in defense.

Husso -> Gibson(hopefully)
Reimer -> Lyon
Määttä -> Ed
Perron -> Berggren/Mazur/Kasper/UFA
Kostin -> UFA

Only player changes we need, the rest is up to the coach.

 

[Ricelund]

Yeah, I'm sure that's why everyone gave me so much shit last season when I said Copp isn't a 2C. He's the 3rd highest paid forward, and second highest paid center. Whatever he's signed to be, he isn't living up to his contract.

Not sure why so many people are trying to defend the contract, it's going to look worse every season. Copp's game is on a downtrend, not sure if it's age or the core injury but he's gone totally soft and barely touches anyone now.

As for contract comparison, it's probably closer to Nielsen than Weiss. The last 2 years will be horrendous.

Nielsen signed a 6-year deal that started in his age 32 season. Copp signed a 5-year deal that started in his age 28 season.

We get it, you don't like Copp's contract. Everyone on this board knows that.

Even if it is a bad contract (FWIW, I don't think it's so bad), it just doesn't really matter.

Then we shouldnt have paid him 2nd line money.

Because that extra $2M in cap space would've gone so far for this team? It doesn't matter.

 

[Baszie]

 

[Gniwder]

Nielsen signed a 6-year deal that started in his age 32 season. Copp signed a 5-year deal that started in his age 28 season.

We get it, you don't like Copp's contract. Everyone on this board knows that.

Even if it is a bad contract (FWIW, I don't think it's so bad), it just doesn't really matter.

Yeah, and his last season was bought out, so it wound up being 5 years.

Copp's on a downtrend, despite the 4 year difference in age his Wings career will probably wind up very similar to Nielsen. You're arguing with me now, but in 3 years you'll just pretend it didn't happen, lol. It's like all of the Zadina and Cholo threads in the past. I have no idea why people like to defend garbage players. I'd rather have the team move on, find better players and win a Cup.

 

[wingerdinger]

Nielsen signed a 6-year deal that started in his age 32 season. Copp signed a 5-year deal that started in his age 28 season.

We get it, you don't like Copp's contract. Everyone on this board knows that.

Even if it is a bad contract (FWIW, I don't think it's so bad), it just doesn't really matter.


Because that extra $2M in cap space would've gone so far for this team? It doesn't matter.

If you over pay on enough contracts then it does end up mattering.

 

[LarKing]

Every time Copp touches the puck I just hope we get it deep because I know the offense is dead in that moment anyway.

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

Wasn't Weiss bought out too?

This is why Kasper or Danielson need to hit, the Wings track record on FA 2C's is trash, regardless of who the GM is.

 

[Ricelund]

Yeah, and his last season was bought out, so it wound up being 5 years.

Copp's on a downtrend, despite the 4 year difference in age his Wings career will probably wind up very similar to Nielsen. You're arguing with me now, but in 3 years you'll just pretend it didn't happen, lol. It's like all of the Zadina and Cholo threads in the past. I have no idea why people like to defend garbage players. I'd rather have the team move on, find better players and win a Cup.

I won't pretend like it didn't happen. It just won't really matter. The rebuild lives and dies with how good Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson, Cossa, Kasper, ASP, Danielson, etc. become. Andrew Copp having a bad contract for the next 2-3 years won't matter by then. But feel free to let it keep bothering you. Maybe just stop posting about it every day.

If you over pay on enough contracts then it does end up mattering.