Andrew copp

lgrws91

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Jun 14, 2023
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If it was my way I'd love to see copp be dealt for a 6th or 7th and even if yzerman and the brass have to eat 1.5 mil per year for the next 3 seasons on his contract so be it. That guy is a bad signing. Can't handle pucks it's as if it's a hot patatoe. Any line he's on u know their going to be hemmed in their own zone or just defending pretty much. Bad signing and it happens to every gm. He's only 28 but for me if copp was 35 he'd be on the same boat as abdelkader was at 5 mil per year at age 35. At 5.8 mil per year u gota bring some offense. I'm not even asking for a 50 point season. But he was signed as a 2nd line centre for the Wings. But that's been a big swing and a miss. Gave him the benefit of the doubt cuz of his major surgery last season but now it's like ugh ya this guy sucks. Panerin made him look good for 2 months on the nyr and playoff run and yet the rangers still chose to sign trochek and pay him more over copp. (Ps don't care for trochek but stating a fact) ok rant done
 

Hen Kolland

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Feb 22, 2018
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In addition to trading for DeBrincat, we signed Compher and Kane to figure into the top 9. Raymond looks better, Veleno has taken a positive step, Fabbri is back from an injury. The depth has altered what role Copp fills on this team. In a healthy lineup, he is your 3rd line center taking defensive matchups and a primary penalty killer. Compared to last season, his even strength ice time is slightly down, his powerplay ice time is slightly down, and his penalty kill ice time is up.

All the while, he's still right around a 0.5 point per game clip.

I think it's become popular for some people to rag on Copp, but he's probably an unsung hero of sorts for this team because he handles all of the shit that allows Larkin's line to be matched up advantageously and push offense. You could say that you wish you paid him a million or million and a half less, but there were no guarantees that our roster evolved the way it did this year. I'd happily pay the extra money for him every day of the week just for the peace of mind.
 
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the contract is awful.

He works hard, I'm never gonna question his work ethic, or commitment, but he's just not very good, and has limited skill in terms of NHL players. If he was making $2.5, and was played on the 4th line, than sure, but the fact that he makes $5.6 is a bit ridiculous. He has no idea what to do when he gets the puck in the offensive zone, and is one of the least creative players in the NHL.

but he works hard

Copp, Chiarot and Holl were all terrible signings by Steve Yzerman.
Ghost, Lyon, Sprong, Compher, Perron, Fischer were good signings though. When you're as active as he's been, you're not gonna hit a homerun on all of them.

Overall, he's done well with his signings, but yes Copp makes too much, Holl is redundant and irrelevant and Chiarot is inconsistent.
 
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Lazlo Hollyfeld

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This seems a particularly oddly timed thread given the Wings top two centers are out right now and Copp was one of the only ones not getting destroyed on faceoffs last night. If you think this stretch has been rough, it would've been worse without Copp.

He wasn't brought here to be an offensive dynamo. The Red Wings are 2nd in the league in Goals For. Think about that. 2nd in the whole friggin league. Who would've predicted that???

They don't need Copp scoring more. They need stability, faceoffs and defensive responsibility and he brings that. And even when he makes a nice play, like on what became Fabbri's go ahead goal, no one here seems to notice.

Holl i'm with you guys but people also seem to be judging Chiarot based on his play last year. He's been good this season.
 

Hammettf2b

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Copp is doing what he was signed to do. I don't know what ppl are expecting of him. Larkin and Compher being out has forced a bigger role into Copp which of course is a little bit out of his ability but once the teams healthy again, he goes right back to being the good roll player he is.
 

19 for president

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Apr 28, 2002
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Copp was a bad signing. Too long and too much for what amounts to at best a 3rd line center. We will struggle to further upgrade this forward group without dealing him, unless it's production from rookies. As I mentioned in the trade thread, we basically have to deal him or Fabbri if want to upgrade this roster at forward (outside of a rental). Just resigning our UFAs/RFAs outside of Perron/Reimer puts us at or over the cap next season.

Chiarot has been ok this year, although terrible last year. He'd be ok if a tad overpaid on this roster if we also didn't have Holl, Petry, and Maata. At max you need two of the four.

Holl was redundant because of the already having Maata and Chiarot. Then we added Petry too.

We need to trade at least 2 of these guys soon to make room for Ed and the plethora of other young dman we have in GR.
 
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Lazlo Hollyfeld

The jersey ad still sucks
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Copp was a bad signing. Too long and too much for what amounts to at best a 3rd line center. We will struggle to further upgrade this forward group without dealing him, unless it's production from rookies. As I mentioned in the trade thread, we basically have to deal him or Fabbri if want to upgrade this roster at forward (outside of a rental). Just resigning our UFAs/RFAs outside of Perron/Reimer puts us at or over the cap next season.

Chiarot has been ok this year, although terrible last year. He'd be ok if a tad overpaid on this roster if we also didn't have Holl, Petry, and Maata. At max you need two of the four.

Holl was redundant because of the already having Maata and Chiarot. Then we added Petry too.

We need to trade at least 2 of these guys soon to make room for Ed and the plethora of other young dman we have in GR.

In terms of cap space it's supposed to go up $4 million next year, plus Vrana's $2.6 million retention comes off the books. Perron is likely gone ($4.75 million). Even though he's been good Ghost is probably gone too ($4.125). Reimer is relatively cheap but will be gone too ($1.5 million).
 

Detroit Knights

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This seems a particularly oddly timed thread given the Wings top two centers are out right now and Copp was one of the only ones not getting destroyed on faceoffs last night. If you think this stretch has been rough, it would've been worse without Copp.

He wasn't brought here to be an offensive dynamo. The Red Wings are 2nd in the league in Goals For. Think about that. 2nd in the whole friggin league. Who would've predicted that???

They don't need Copp scoring more. They need stability, faceoffs and defensive responsibility and he brings that. And even when he makes a nice play, like on what became Fabbri's go ahead goal, no one here seems to notice.

Holl i'm with you guys but people also seem to be judging Chiarot based on his play last year. He's been good this season.
This.

We are in a crazy new position that we don't need to worry about scoring because we are one of the best teams in the league at scoring. So going after a guy that is still producing with points but is one of our better PK'ers and defensive forwards just because is a bit silly. I want to use him as a trade chip and I've said that multiple times, but that is because the other end of that trade is someone better, not because i don't like him on the team. Take points out of it, copp produces pretty well in a lot of other areas to justify or at least have a rational argument about how much he is getting paid.

I agree with the chiarot hate. It makes no sense. Last year he was the worst signing, but this year he may be considered one of our better signing from last year because he is playing like the chiarot that we were kind of expecting him to be last year? Maybe he needed an old face (petry) to play differently/better?
 

jaster

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In addition to trading for DeBrincat, we signed Compher and Kane to figure into the top 9. Raymond looks better, Veleno has taken a positive step, Fabbri is back from an injury. The depth has altered what role Copp fills on this team. In a healthy lineup, he is your 3rd line center taking defensive matchups and a primary penalty killer. Compared to last season, his even strength ice time is slightly down, his powerplay ice time is slightly down, and his penalty kill ice time is up.

All the while, he's still right around a 0.5 point per game clip.

I think it's become popular for some people to rag on Copp, but he's probably an unsung hero of sorts for this team because he handles all of the shit that allows Larkin's line to be matched up advantageously and push offense. You could say that you wish you paid him a million or million and a half less, but there were no guarantees that our roster evolved the way it did this year. I'd happily pay the extra money for him every day of the week just for the peace of mind.
I find this reasonable take offensive to my I-just-want-to-complain-and-not-get-pushback sensibilities.
 

Hen Kolland

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Feb 22, 2018
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Copp was a bad signing. Too long and too much for what amounts to at best a 3rd line center.

As it stands today, Copp's is tied for 44th highest cap hit among veteran centers. This doesn't account for the time of the signing, so it doesn't consider the economics of the league at the time nor the signing status of a player. There are players who signed with term that have discounted cap hits because their team was buying RFA years at a discount. This places him firmly in the 2nd line center bracket. His output might place him as a 2nd to 3rd line tweener. Under no circumstances is his "best case" a third line center. That's more in line with the floor of his game.

He was not a bad signing, his contract is within reason. You paid open market prices for a UFA center when, at the time, you had Larkin and nobody else behind him playing above a 4th line level. You couldn't afford to not bring in help, and he continues to provide help that you might just elect to ignore because it isn't in a box score every night.
 

Rzombo4 prez

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May 17, 2012
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We paid market price for him as a UFA. We sucked and he wasn't about to give us a discount. The UFA markets have become super thin as of late and the cost of labor is only moving in one direction, especially for anyone with any potential ability to play center.

I am starting to think that no one actually watched him in the Peg or NY before we signed him. I have a lot of time for him. Smart, versatile player. I can see why coaches like and trust him. Given this is HFboards, however, the vast majority of posters will not be able to talk about him without talking about his salary.
 

19 for president

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Apr 28, 2002
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As it stands today, Copp's is tied for 44th highest cap hit among veteran centers. This doesn't account for the time of the signing, so it doesn't consider the economics of the league at the time nor the signing status of a player. There are players who signed with term that have discounted cap hits because their team was buying RFA years at a discount. This places him firmly in the 2nd line center bracket. His output might place him as a 2nd to 3rd line tweener. Under no circumstances is his "best case" a third line center. That's more in line with the floor of his game.

He was not a bad signing, his contract is within reason. You paid open market prices for a UFA center when, at the time, you had Larkin and nobody else behind him playing above a 4th line level. You couldn't afford to not bring in help, and he continues to provide help that you might just elect to ignore because it isn't in a box score every night.
I don't necessarily disagree with what you wrote in terms of it being a fair market price for a UFA but I do believe it was a bad signing for years and amount for this team. You have to overpay in the UFA world to land guys. Its why it is almost impossible to build a team via UFA. Stevie gambled in the same way he did with Compher. Take a chance on a solid defensive guy that will hopefully have an upward tick in offensive after a career year. He has returned more to his norm though, and that is a bit of a problem.

He may have the 44th highest cap hit in the league for centers but he is the 87thish in terms of point production for centers. The year before 72nd (148th all skaters), Even in his best season with Panarin (59th for centers, 100th for skaters). He statistically produces at a 3rd line level.

On teams that have a true number 1 but not franchise elite center ala Larkin, I would argue that you need you number 2 center to produce at least in the higher end of #2s. Copp is not someone that can produce at that level consistently. Even in his best season he was still close to that mid to lower end of that 2nd C group. If he played say Draper level defense, I think you could give those lower offensive numbers a pass but he doesn't. He's good defensively, but he is not elite.

Now when you look at our cap situation go forward we already have 57.4 mil wrapped up. Conservatively to resign Seider (8mil), Ray (5.5 mil), Berggy (1 mil), Ghost (4.5 Mil), Kane (4.5 mil), Veleno (2mil), Ras (2 mil), Fischer (1.26or equiv), and bring up Ed (.897) next season you are looking at probably close to 29.6 mil that puts us at 87 mil. If we want to bring back Sprong you are looking at probably 89.5. That would put us over the cap or just under it with cary over if we were to do some funky Kane 35+ magic.

So if the Wings want to bring in good top 4 or top 6 players they have to move out some of these overpaid (for their role) players to make room.

I should note that I don't think Copp is a bad player. He is a very solid 3rd line, 1st pk guy. If he were the Wings only overpriced guy, it would not be a big deal because you can usually get some savings on other young or rookie contracts.
 
Yup, the ones criticizing the OP are spot on. There isn’t much more to be said. 3 more things maybe: our top 9 is undersized for the most part and lots of our forwards are terrible defensively, he balances that out a bit. Plus, look at our killers without Copp. It’s not only thin but also very top heavy with our 2 top centers on it. I don’t want to tax them too much.
 
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Gniwder

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Whipping boys stay whipping boys and do everything wrong in people's eyes and favorites get special treatment forever.
Not true. People here turned on Zadina and Cholo, just took 2 seasons, lol.

Chiarot has turned it around this season, Holl wouldn't have been signed if the Petry trade had happened earlier. If anything, Maatta has been the disappointing one, after playing well with Hronek.

Copp is an overpaid 3C, he's not 2C on any current playoff contending team. Plays literally die on his stick. If he was paid $1.5M less with 2 less years on the contract and threw a few checks, I would probably like him though.

If you think this stretch has been rough, it would've been worse without Copp.
The team has only won one game since DBoss got injured. So it could only be worse by one loss.


Don't know why people are getting so attached to him, he's not finishing his career in Detroit. He'll finish out his career playing 4C for cheap somewhere like Gagner or Helm.
 
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Lazlo Hollyfeld

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Not true. People here turned on Zadina and Cholo, just took 2 seasons, lol.

Chiarot has turned it around this season, Holl wouldn't have been signed if the Petry trade had happened earlier. If anything, Maatta has been the disappointing one, after playing well with Hronek.

Copp is an overpaid 3C, he's not 2C on any current playoff contending team. Plays literally die on his stick. If he was paid $1.5M less with 2 less years on the contract and threw a few checks, I would probably like him though.


The team has only won one game since DBoss got injured. So it could only be worse by one loss.


Don't know why people are getting so attached to him, he's not finishing his career in Detroit. He'll finish out his career playing 4C for cheap somewhere like Gagner or Helm.

Zadina and Cholo were high draft picks that busted. Copp is a known quantity that's playing like what he's always been.

Saying people are attached to Copp is misrepresenting what we've been saying. I have zero attachment to copp. I just don't think he's got an awful contract and is wildly underperforming. If there was a trade involving Copp that improved the team, I'd help him pack his bags.

"It could be worse by one loss" is a reductive argument. They would have been even less competitive in any of the games.
 
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Gniwder

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"It could be worse by one loss" is a reductive argument. They would have been even less competitive in any of the games.
In the end though the standings is all that matters. One game dude. Though that one game might be the difference between making the playoffs or not.

Copp really has no offensive talent, if I'm paying $5.6M for a 3rd liner, that guy better be able to knock Joseph into the next galaxy. Aside from being overpaid, he rarely throws a check.
 
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Lazlo Hollyfeld

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In the end though the standings is all that matters. One game dude. Though that one game might be the difference between making the playoffs or not.

Copp really has no offensive talent, if I'm paying $5.6M for a 3rd liner, that guy better be able to knock Joseph into the next galaxy. Aside from being overpaid, he rarely throws a check.

I'm not sure why you're continuing to focus on those handful of games for that one offhand comment.

As I said earlier, Copp isn't here for goals nor was he expected to provide offensive talent. This team has plenty of offense but is not exactly strong defensively. Copp is 2nd in minutes on the PK. Can play on the PP (though ideally he would not be). 3rd in taking faceoffs.

And what does his AAV have to do with hitting someone? Wouldn't it make more sense to expect the 6'6" 220 lbs guy to be more physical?

That's the thing. You're not paying $5.6 million for a 3rd liner. Ilitch is. So until the Wings are in some cap crunch who cares?

I get that you don't like Copp. In terms of the problems the Wings have, he's not near the top of the list.
 

Henkka

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Andrew Copp feels same like Ryan Callahan was for Tampa. Yzerman wanted him on purpose. Was same kind of gritty attitude guy, leader, not scoring anyhow near for his contract value, but doing those defensive things and did spend many years there. And maybe created some right culture which did turn to winning Cups after he was gone.
 
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lgrws91

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Jun 14, 2023
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In the end though the standings is all that matters. One game dude. Though that one game might be the difference between making the playoffs or not.

Copp really has no offensive talent, if I'm paying $5.6M for a 3rd liner, that guy better be able to knock Joseph into the next galaxy. Aside from being overpaid, he rarely throws a check.
This! Signed as a 2nd line centre and now an overpaid 3rd line centre and cannot make any plays. He should be a menace out there throwing hits if u cant score etc. He's just so blah. I don't get the pple who think he's good at a 3rd line role etc etc. That can be had for way cheaper and a player who plays better. He's overrated.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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I think another part of the Copp and Compher plan is that they have a history of being good when flexed out on the wing as F1 forecheckers and keeping pucks down low. They also have different shot hands, they setup to help transition Kasper and Danielson at the ends of these contracts.

The core issue has left him just a step behind the guy I have seen in Winnipeg and New York. I actually think he has been getting better and better lately. He is a smart player with a ton of versatility. When a young guy is ready to displace him he can kick outside and help with draws. I still totally see why he was brought in and where he fits in Yzerman’s vision.
 

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