Confirmed Trade: [ANA/VGK] Evgenii Dadonov, cond. 2023/24 2nd round pick for John Moore, Ryan Kesler [OFFICIALLY VOIDED]

[SpezDispenser]

Yes. When the list was submitted for this season, he was with Ottawa, so Ottawa had the list. Vegas likely took Ottawa’s word, or purposely played dumb once Vegas traded for him and noticed they didn’t receive the list.

Lol, sure it does. Vegas just didn't bother asking or checking. It's on them.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Wouldn't it be something if he was asked to waive for Anaheim BEFORE the trade was submitted to the league?

The article states he was asked to waive before the deadline, which I took to mean before it was submitted because the trade was sent in last minute. That could be a bad assumption on my part. Would love to know the timeline on that for sure.

 

[bbgobie]

It's still a red flag, no? Whether still accurate or not based on a void, a team should have done their due diligence regardless who is at fault.

Not really? Assuming teams don't rely on Capfriendly to make trades, why would you look? Its been reported they knew if the clause, but Ottawa told them it was void. NHL said there was no list filed so its void. Why would you go call the agent to ask if thats true? Even if he said its not, you got 30 mins left to make a trade, how do you sort that out?

Ottawa might have their own internal issues...hiring Pierre McGuire for example, but I don't fault them for Vegas' f*** up here.

Until definitive proof surfaces that confirms what Ottawa did or didn't tell Vegas, it's all conjecture. Regardless, Vegas had 9 months to verify his NTC status & chose not to.

Plus there's a quote in the LA Times that says Dadonov was asked to waive for Anaheim. So....

I think the NHL not having the list is proof Ottawa f'd it up.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Not really? Assuming teams don't rely on Capfriendly to make trades, why would you look? Its been reported they knew if the clause, but Ottawa told them it was void. NHL said there was no list filed so its void. Why would you go call the agent to ask if thats true? Even if he said its not, you got 30 mins left to make a trade, how do you sort that out?



I think the NHL not having the list is proof Ottawa f'd it up.

As has been said 100 times today, the NHL never sees the list,.

 

[Kane One]

Not really? Assuming teams don't rely on Capfriendly to make trades, why would you look? Its been reported they knew if the clause, but Ottawa told them it was void. NHL said there was no list filed so its void. Why would you go call the agent to ask if thats true? Even if he said its not, you got 30 mins left to make a trade, how do you sort that out?



I think the NHL not having the list is proof Ottawa f'd it up.

The NHL does not keep copies of the list.

 

[Nihiliste]

Shouldn’t there be some paper trail of the contract being void, if it really was? Internal docs at Ottawa or a letter of notice to the player stating that “condition x wasn’t met therefore the M-NTC is voided”. Lacking such documentation you’d have to assume it isn’t void. If the most basic common sense procedures were in place then there wouldn’t really be any question about this

 

[Craigo85]

Not really? Assuming teams don't rely on Capfriendly to make trades, why would you look? Its been reported they knew if the clause, but Ottawa told them it was void. NHL said there was no list filed so its void. Why would you go call the agent to ask if thats true? Even if he said its not, you got 30 mins left to make a trade, how do you sort that out?



I think the NHL not having the list is proof Ottawa f'd it up.

1) NHL doesn't keep the lists
2) Vegas' deal with Ottawa wasn't a deadline deal, lot more time than 30 mins to figure it out
3) leaving things to the last minute has consequences. i'm sure we've all been burned before
4) I don't think the NHL has said there's no list so it's void. there have been "reports" that Vegas/NHL thought it was voided, but has anybody asked Ottawa's side in this?
5) there seem to be reports out there that Vegas may have known the voided NTC wasn't a solid position
6) Uncertainty about if/when Vegas asked Dadonov about waiving his NTC
7) Sounds like Vegas doesn't get the benefit of the doubt based on how they treat players
8) I don't think there's been anything saying Ottawa explicitly said the NTC was void? That was supposedly how Vegas interpreted it.
9) Acquiring players with voided NTCs doesn't seem to be a common thing. This is something that we reasonably expect Vegas to verify shortly after acquiring Dadonov. Similarly, we'd expect their doctors to verify players medical condition was as stipulated before a trade too
10) #9 not happening is sketchy/ignorant/incompetence on Vegas' part. To me there is no doubt about this unless we get a recording of the initial trade call between Ottawa and Vegas

To me #9 should have been a win/win situation for Vegas. If Ottawa said or implied his NTC was void and the NHL thought the same thing, confirm it the next day. If it was true, you are now 100% certain (that's a win) and if not, launch a complaint and get compensation picks back from Ottawa.

The NHL likely would have been pissed at Ottawa for their actions, especially against the new expansion team, Melnyk would have been even more sketchy after.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I think the NHL not having the list is proof Ottawa f'd it up.

Nothing I've seen officially reported confirms this. Insider tweets are not the same, IMO.

Edit...it's also been reported that the NHL doesn't get a copy of the list.

 

[Larry Hanson]

To add to this, my guess is that once Vegas traded for him and noticed they didn’t receive the list, they thought that instead of confirming with his agent, they would try to pull a fast one on the league, Ducks, and Dadonov and blame Ottawa if they got caught. They sure as hell must have known what they were doing here.

They wouldn't have noticed that they didn't receive the list because they weren't expecting to receive a list, they didn't think that the list existed.

There are lots of reasons to dislike Vegas and the way they do business but this isn't one of them. I highly doubt they did this on purpose when they could have traded him to one of the other 21 teams and avoided this mess.

 

[The Marquis]

Shouldn’t there be some paper trail of the contract being void, if it really was? Internal docs at Ottawa or a letter of notice to the player stating that “condition x wasn’t met therefore the M-NTC is voided”. Lacking such documentation you’d have to assume it isn’t void. If the most basic common sense procedures were in place then there wouldn’t really be any question about this

Well, in doing proper due diligence (Also, props to whichever poster decided to change their name to this), you'd either want the list or proof that the list was invalid. You'd want it in writing for sure. As we saw, it was so easy for the agent to provide the proof it was sent properly and on time WITH ACKNOWLEDGMENT that you'd think Vegas would want to see the proof if they're being told that by Ottawa before either making the deal, or simply after the deal was done acknowledging that there may be 10 teams you can't trade the player to. I can't imagine a 10 team no-trade list is really a make or break thing for a vast majority of trades, even if the teams aren't aware of who is on them.

 

[Nihiliste]

Well, in doing proper due diligence (Also, props to whichever poster decided to change their name to this), you'd either want the list or proof that the list was invalid. You'd want it in writing for sure. As we saw, it was so easy for the agent to provide the proof it was sent properly and on time WITH ACKNOWLEDGMENT that you'd think Vegas would want to see the proof if their being told that by Ottawa before either making the deal, or simply after the deal was done acknowledging that there may be 10 teams you can't trade the player to. I can't imagine a 10 team no-trade list is really a make or break thing for a vast majority of trades, even if the teams aren't aware of who is on them.

Right while it (sloppily) may not have felt urgent for Vegas to follow up on this issue at the specific time of the trade with Ottawa, you’d have to think that trading Dadonov came up in internal discussions many times as the season unfolded. It’s totally unprofessional and inexcusable to not go and get the necessary documentation proving that the list is void (or not) at some point between the initial Ottawa trade and this year’s trade deadline

 

[Korpse]

Shouldn’t there be some paper trail of the contract being void, if it really was? Internal docs at Ottawa or a letter of notice to the player stating that “condition x wasn’t met therefore the M-NTC is voided”. Lacking such documentation you’d have to assume it isn’t void. If the most basic common sense procedures were in place then there wouldn’t really be any question about this

You'd think but the biggest story to come out of this mess is that the NHL has no procedure. Pierre LeBrun shared some stories in an article on The Athletic, one where an assistant accidently deleted a trade list and another were a GM was fired and a list for a player was not passed on to the new GM. He didn't share how those situations were resolved but the fact that things like that happen and can lead to a situation like this raises a lot of flags about how the NHL handles NTC's. Given the role of NHL Central Registry, it's bizarre they have no role in NTC's.

 

[Larry Hanson]

Nothing I've seen officially reported confirms this. Insider tweets are not the same, IMO.

Edit...it's also been reported that the NHL doesn't get a copy of the list.

You place a lot of faith in the LA Times article when every other source is saying the opposite. Not sure why you believe that one story over the guys who are actually connected to the teams and have proven to be reliable.

Also have to laugh that you are now saying "it's been reported that the NHL doesn't get a copy", that information came from the same insiders who you apparently don't believe.

 

[Kaizen]

What a terrible mess especially for the player.

I would say the league Ottawa and vegas all share responsibility. It isn’t enough for a team (Ottawa) to say no he didn’t submit. That has to be proven. Can’t just ask their word.

Seems sketchy by all parties and shame on them all

How do you prove a non-event?

 

[Nihiliste]

You'd think but the biggest story to come out of this mess is that the NHL has no procedure. Pierre LeBrun shared some stories in article on The Athletic, one where an assistant accidently deleted a trade list and another were a GM was fired and a list for a player was not passed on to the new GM. He didn't share how those situations were resolved but the fact that things like that happen and can lead to a situation like this raises a lot of flags about how the NHL handles NTC's.

NHL procedures apparently as airtight as my kid’s rec soccer league

 

[Korpse]

How do you prove a non-event?

By following up with the agent?

 

[Nihiliste]

How do you prove a non-event?

Like I said above, in any minimally professional process there should obviously be some notification to player/agent or internal documentation of list not being filed by deadline or other voiding factor. Like if your tenant doesn’t pay rent you have to notify them and not just change the locks. Or if you want to retain a tenant’s security deposit for damages, you have to notify them and give them an opportunity to respond

 

[pbgoalie]

So, the NHL stupidly allows the teams to manage to lists of teams that a player submits. There is a due date for said lists.

Dadanov’s list was submitted on time.
Seems accepted to this point

The BUTS or IFS
If Ottawa said there was no list submitted and the NHL accepted that, Dadanov has some measurable amount of value more than of ten teams were excluded
Yes, Vegas should/could have inquired of Dad or his agent on the list before trading him, but it seems pretty reasonable to believe that when the trade was approved (without a list) that they had the whole league to trade with.

If the list was in in fact, not shared (on purpose or oversight), the initial trade values were skewed.
Teams are mostly over secretive on trades to keep any advantage. The whole culture is weird on this.

IF Vegas knew about the list, then they should be penalized.....heavily. If it was held back, Ottawa should be

If it was missed, just throw this on the pile with the rest of the crap the NHL does to look foolish

 

[Boris Zubov]

You place a lot of faith in the LA Times article when every other source is saying the opposite. Not sure why you believe that one story over the guys who are actually connected to the teams and have proven to be reliable.

Also have to laugh that you are now saying "it's been reported that the NHL doesn't get a copy", that information came from the same insiders who you apparently don't believe.

I clarified my position in my post that referenced the Times article by stating "if the article is accurate". I don't give much credence to twitter, just my prerogative.

But even if the NHL had the list, then why isn't it also their responsibilty to verify that Vegas was given a copy? Since nobody can confirm with certainty what the standard procedure is, it would be premature to blame Ottawa.

 

[hatterson]

So, the NHL stupidly allows the teams to manage to lists of teams that a player submits. There is a due date for said lists.

Aren't there certain clauses that have different timeframes for lists? or clauses where the player has to provide a list of the team asks but not before that?

 

[Daz28]

The only plausible(aka bs) explanation is the willful ignorance of Vegas assuming that it was voided. Anything else, and someone has to face the malfeasance. This is how politics works.

 

[Daz28]

So, the NHL stupidly allows the teams to manage to lists of teams that a player submits. There is a due date for said lists.

Dadanov’s list was submitted on time.
Seems accepted to this point

The BUTS or IFS
If Ottawa said there was no list submitted and the NHL accepted that, Dadanov has some measurable amount of value more than of ten teams were excluded
Yes, Vegas should/could have inquired of Dad or his agent on the list before trading him, but it seems pretty reasonable to believe that when the trade was approved (without a list) that they had the whole league to trade with.

If the list was in in fact, not shared (on purpose or oversight), the initial trade values were skewed.
Teams are mostly over secretive on trades to keep any advantage. The whole culture is weird on this.

IF Vegas knew about the list, then they should be penalized.....heavily. If it was held back, Ottawa should be

If it was missed, just throw this on the pile with the rest of the crap the NHL does to look foolish

This is how lawyers operate. First, blame everyone else. If that fails, then blame it on a glitch in the matrix. If anyone questions that, then tie it up in the courts for years, until it's long forgotten, and holding anyone accountable at that point seems foolish. This is basically what's wrong with politics, justice, and the world in general.

 

[Mattb124]

Shouldn’t there be some paper trail of the contract being void, if it really was? Internal docs at Ottawa or a letter of notice to the player stating that “condition x wasn’t met therefore the M-NTC is voided”. Lacking such documentation you’d have to assume it isn’t void. If the most basic common sense procedures were in place then there wouldn’t really be any question about this

Absolutely. If the 10-team list was not received by Ottawa by the 7/1/21 deadline, a prudent person would have e-mailed Dadonov's agents to get their acknowledgment of that fact and that the M-NTC was resultingly invalid for the following 12-month period. When a trade of that player was subsequently made within that period, that acknowledgement would be forwarded along with the contract and other related documentation to the acquiring team (VGK).

If the acquiring team did not receive either the 10-team list or the acknowledgement by the player's agent the M-NTC was invalid as part of the trade doc package, a prudent person would have followed up with the other team to get the list or written confirmation the M-NTC was ineffective. If the other team could not produce that, a call to the player's agent for the list/acknowledgement would then occur.

This is not rocket science. In business when closing acquisitions, financings, etc. there is a closing check list and all items must be satisfied in writing prior to closing. No reasonable person would accept a verbal validation in lieu of a written. verifiable one any case.

 

[bbgobie]

No matter the exact situation a lot of the blame has to be on the NHL for not having a system to track these in place.

Eg. I go buy a house, my lawyer checks if there are no Liens on the house, if there are none the deal goes through.
If some creditor swings by and says, yes there is, here is proof, I have no idea why the central registry doesn't have it, and registry ends up saying oops we didn't have it, there's actually a valid Lien on the house than....

The amount of blame on each team we'll probably never know publicly unless the NHL actually hands out punishment.

But I'll throw this last jab in.

If the NHL offers Melnyk a $5000 fine or losing a 1st round pick he probably would rather lose the pick

 

[Golden_Jet]

No matter the exact situation a lot of the blame has to be on the NHL for not having a system to track these in place.

Eg. I go buy a house, my lawyer checks if there are no Liens on the house, if there are none the deal goes through.
If some creditor swings by and says, yes there is, here is proof, I have no idea why the central registry doesn't have it, and registry ends up saying oops we didn't have it, there's actually a valid Lien on the house than....

The amount of blame on each team we'll probably never know publicly unless the NHL actually hands out punishment.

But I'll throw this last jab in.

If the NHL offers Melnyk a $5000 fine or losing a 1st round pick he probably would rather lose the pick

Not a Senators problem.
Not like there was a time restraint on trade, as it was made in the summer. Vegas had oceans of time for due diligence, also LA Times says Vegas knew of NTC, and tried to push it through to Anaheim.