Blue Jays Discussion: Alright, no more discontent. Just baseball | ST in Mtl: StL @ Tor | Mar 26/27 7pm ET/4pm PT

[Nineteen67]

Any word on VGJ playing this weekend?

 

[Garlando]

In a hypothetical scenario where the Jays took advantage of the weak market for Mike Moustakas and signed him to the exact same deal that he signed yesterday with the Royals, and then traded Josh Donaldson for prospects...what would the reaction be?

 

[Anthrax442]

In a hypothetical scenario where the Jays took advantage of the weak market for Mike Moustakas and signed him to the exact same deal that he signed yesterday with the Royals, and then traded Josh Donaldson for prospects...what would the reaction be?

Better question, is there really going to be a huge market for JDo as they expect? There will be a lot of other UFAs next season that expect big money, but looking at this year I don't think he will get an offer as good as they all predict he will.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Pack it in Jose

 

[Garlando]

Better question, is there really going to be a huge market for JDo as they expect? There will be a lot of other UFAs next season that expect big money, but looking at this year I don't think he will get an offer as good as they all predict he will.

Definitely a good point! There really aren't a lot of teams looking to compete that have a 3B hole, and then there is the question of how many teams are willing to invest big money in a guy who will be 33 at the start of the season in 2019. A lot of the high profile guys this offseason have had to settle for less. Maybe Donaldson will too? What will his market be?

 

[Discoverer]

In a hypothetical scenario where the Jays took advantage of the weak market for Mike Moustakas and signed him to the exact same deal that he signed yesterday with the Royals, and then traded Josh Donaldson for prospects...what would the reaction be?

Slightly more positive than if they traded Donaldson for prospects and didn't sign Moustakas. I like the Moustakas signing for the Royals a lot, but it would still be a pretty enormous downgrade from Donaldson. In any Donaldson trade, the key is going to be the pieces coming back. A temporary replacement is secondary.

 

[Discoverer]

The Jays would also be giving up a draft pick somewhere in the 55 overall range and $500,000 in IFA spending to sign Moustakas.

 

[Nineteen67]

The Jays would also be giving up a draft pick somewhere in the 55 overall range and $500,000 in IFA spending to sign Moustakas.

Did they change the draft pick rule a year or so ago - from 1st round to 2nd?

 

[zeke]

In a hypothetical scenario where the Jays took advantage of the weak market for Mike Moustakas and signed him to the exact same deal that he signed yesterday with the Royals, and then traded Josh Donaldson for prospects...what would the reaction be?

yay we replaced the best player in franchise history with a declining mediocrity.

 

[phillipmike]

The Jays would also be giving up a draft pick somewhere in the 55 overall range and $500,000 in IFA spending to sign Moustakas.

Wouldnt that be if he signed for more than $50M?

 

[Discoverer]

Wouldnt that be if he signed for more than $50M?

I thought of that, but what I read seemed to suggest the signing team forfeits the assets regardless of the contract and the $50 million cut-off only affects the return for the former team.

 

[Garlando]

yay we replaced the best player in franchise history with a declining mediocrity.

I agree it would be a huge downgrade in the short-term, Moustakas just put up a 2.2 WAR season last season with his worst defensive season which probably isn't a surprise after an ACL injury that ended his 2016 season. He's definitely a declining and mediocre player but he isn't useless, and the thought process of my initial question was that he signed for such a discount and would be a pretty solid stop gap. And if the Jays made a Donaldson trade where they were able to bring back a couple top 100 prospects+, that would certainly help you further build around the next core of Guerrero Jr. + Bichette + Alford + Stroman + Sanchez. I admit my initial thought process didn't include the draft pick compensation factor plus the loss of international amateur money which is a big factor, especially with the news of the Jays signing Orlevis Martinez who is one of the biggest names in this upcoming year's class. I'm not saying it's something I would have done or even seriously entertained for very long, but I thought it was a worthy discussion in terms of asset management.

 

[Discoverer]

I agree it would be a huge downgrade in the short-term, Moustakas just put up a 2.2 WAR season last season with his worst defensive season which probably isn't a surprise after an ACL injury that ended his 2016 season. He's definitely a declining and mediocre player but he isn't useless, and the thought process of my initial question was that he signed for such a discount and would be a pretty solid stop gap. And if the Jays made a Donaldson trade where they were able to bring back a couple top 100 prospects+, that would certainly help you further build around the next core of Guerrero Jr. + Bichette + Alford + Stroman + Sanchez. I admit my initial thought process didn't include the draft pick compensation factor plus the loss of international amateur money which is a big factor, especially with the news of the Jays signing Orlevis Martinez who is one of the biggest names in this upcoming year's class. I'm not saying it's something I would have done or even seriously entertained for very long, but I thought it was a worthy discussion in terms of asset management.

It's definitely worth discussing beyond a response like zeke's, but, like I said, I think the two topics (trading Donaldson and signing Moustakas) should be considered separately. If you decide there's an offer on the table that makes it worthwhile to trade Donaldson, then signing Moustakas as a stop-gap would make a lot of sense. But you shouldn't consider Moustakas as part of the equation when deciding whether or not to accept an offer for Donaldson.

 

[phillipmike]

In a hypothetical scenario where the Jays took advantage of the weak market for Mike Moustakas and signed him to the exact same deal that he signed yesterday with the Royals, and then traded Josh Donaldson for prospects...what would the reaction be?

When trading Donaldson it should be for only the return. If the return was suitable then you make the deal and look for an upgrade after rather than looking to trade Donaldson because you can get a 2.5 WAR player on a 1 year deal. Its potentially a 4 WAR loss... But im sure you have the same feelings. Trading Donaldson because you think you can get a much inferior player on a cheap deal screams Billy Beane and the Oakland A's.

The only time i would have considered dealing Donaldson to get mega assets was to sign Justin Turner last off-season - he was too good of bargain. I think i even said on these boards i would have signed him to play 1B and kept Donaldson too. I saw him as a 4-5 WAR player and the fact that he only got 4 years at 64M for his aged 32, 33, 34 and 35 season was ridiculously good when he was coming off 3 seasons that averaged out to 4.5 WAR over 650 PAs. Though i heard he was only set on re-signing with the Dodgers so much that he didnt clean his locker out at the end of the 2016 season - so that would explain the bargain they got and likely throw that option out the door for my Jays hope to land him last off-season.

 

[BlueForever75]

I really like the outlook of our team in the next 2-3 years. Janssen at C, Alford in CF, Bichette at SS, and Guerrero 3B/1B. Take into consideration that Travis at 2B if he can curb injuries is still young. Grichuk is only 25 yrs old playing RF. You really need to fill 3B or 1B and LF for position players. Depending on what is done with Donaldson cause we will still need veteran leadership. Your infield will either be set with him in it, or you will use him to acquire talent to help fill those holes.

When it comes to position players there is still some work to do, but the core is still there to build around and it is definitely a great promising one. This also doesn't take into account other positional players like Urena, Tellez, Hernandez, Biggio, Gurriel and Pompey that still have time to develop into something.

There hasn't been this much hype around position players with the Jays at this magnitude ever I don't think. I remember when the Stewart, Green, Rios, Wells and Delgado's were coming up....but nothing since. This is definitely a breath of fresh air. And if they do things correctly we can actually be full blown contending rather soon in the AL East!!!!

Remember we still have young pitching like Osuna, Stroman, Sanchez, Borucki, Pannone, SRF, and others that will carry us. But depending on what we get for players like Smoak, Estrada, Happ, Granderson, Pearce, Morales, Pillar if we fall out of the race this season. And what really happens with Donaldson....this can be a quick turnaround for the Jays.

Exciting times!!!!

 

[Nineteen67]

I really like the outlook of our team in the next 2-3 years. Janssen at C, Alford in CF, Bichette at SS, and Guerrero 3B/1B. Take into consideration that Travis at 2B if he can curb injuries is still young. Grichuk is only 25 yrs old playing RF. You really need to fill 3B or 1B and LF for position players. Depending on what is done with Donaldson cause we will still need veteran leadership. Your infield will either be set with him in it, or you will use him to acquire talent to help fill those holes.

When it comes to position players there is still some work to do, but the core is still there to build around and it is definitely a great promising one. This also doesn't take into account other positional players like Urena, Tellez, Hernandez, Biggio, Gurriel and Pompey that still have time to develop into something.

There hasn't been this much hype around position players with the Jays at this magnitude ever I don't think. I remember when the Stewart, Green, Rios, Wells and Delgado's were coming up....but nothing since. This is definitely a breath of fresh air. And if they do things correctly we can actually be full blown contending rather soon in the AL East!!!!

Remember we still have young pitching like Osuna, Stroman, Sanchez, Borucki, Pannone, SRF, and others that will carry us. But depending on what we get for players like Smoak, Estrada, Happ, Granderson, Pearce, Morales, Pillar if we fall out of the race this season. And what really happens with Donaldson....this can be a quick turnaround for the Jays.

Exciting times!!!!

This why I would have traded JD last year - to add a few more pieces that can grow with the core.

 

[BlueForever75]

This why I would have traded JD last year - to add a few more pieces that can grow with the core.

I understand your reasoning but I also believe that signing a Donaldson to a 5 year deal gives us the consistency and leadership that these kids will need to have the team succeed in the future. Its a double edge sword, you can win both ways.

I actually believe if there is a way that certain players have good to great seasons but we are still on the outside looking in come June-July you can still resign Donaldson and trade away other assets to get a good haul of prospects to fill holes. Some prospects that are maybe even close like we did with Liriano and got Hernandez.

I think players like Pillar, Smoak, Happ, Estrada, Granderson, Pearce and possibly Morales can be flipped into useful pieces as long as they have decent to great seasons leading up to trade deadline.

And none of those players are the BP arms that we can trade depending on which vets make the roster out of spring. If players like Clippard, Breslow, Alberquque make the team and have good seasons, we can still acquire talent like we did with Pannone from the Indians for Smith last season.

So I know that Donaldson would probably fetch us the most, but at the same time in the future we will need vet leadership that can still produce. And he may be that piece to go along with this current young core and anything else we acquire.

 

[zeke]

today:

Granderson
Travis
Donaldson
Smoak
Martin
Morales
Grichuk
Pillar
Diaz

don't like Donaldson dropping out of the 2 hole but I do like Morales not being auto-selected into the cleanup spot.

 

[TF97]

today:

Granderson
Travis
Donaldson
Smoak
Martin
Morales
Grichuk
Pillar
Diaz

don't like Donaldson dropping out of the 2 hole but I do like Morales not being auto-selected into the cleanup spot.

I would imagine that is very similar to what we will see opening day. However, I think I would go with...

1. Travis (R)
2. Donaldson (R)
3. Smoak (S)
4. Morales (S)
5. Granderson (L) / Pearce (R)
6. Grichuk (R)
7. Martin (R)
8. Pillar (R)
9. Diaz (R)

Morales/LF platoon and Grichuk/Martin could be flip flopped and I’d still be satisfied with the lineup.

 

[Discoverer]

I would imagine that is very similar to what we will see opening day. However, I think I would go with...

1. Travis (R)
2. Donaldson (R)
3. Smoak (S)
4. Morales (S)
5. Granderson (L) / Pearce (R)
6. Grichuk (R)
7. Martin (R)
8. Pillar (R)
9. Diaz (R)

Morales/LF platoon and Grichuk/Martin could be flip flopped and I’d still be satisfied with the lineup.

Morales down a couple spots would be helpful, too, unless it's a lefty.

 

[BlueForever75]

Where ever they place players in this lineup its going to be a productive one as long as everyone stays healthy and produces like the can.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I would imagine that is very similar to what we will see opening day. However, I think I would go with...

1. Travis (R)
2. Donaldson (R)
3. Smoak (S)
4. Morales (S)
5. Granderson (L) / Pearce (R)
6. Grichuk (R)
7. Martin (R)
8. Pillar (R)
9. Diaz (R)

Morales/LF platoon and Grichuk/Martin could be flip flopped and I’d still be satisfied with the lineup.

What about Solarte? I think he gets the start at SS opening day, not Diaz.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

What about Solarte? I think he gets the start at SS opening day, not Diaz.

I highly doubt that.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I highly doubt that.

I see, yes. I just looked both Diaz and Solarte up. I can see why Diaz would start. I wasn't so intimately familiar with both of them and I just thought Solarte was a SS and a better player. My bad.

 

[phillipmike]

Wow Carlos Gonzalez got a guaranteed 8M on his 1 year deal.

I get the age difference but if Gonzalez is getting 8M then Bautista could possibly make a case for getting 4-5M and i think that would be too much for him;

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