All-Time Best Generational Player Pyramid

[MadLuke]

The format force things to be a bit unnatural and strange obviously, but that part of the challenge and exercise.

Birthdate of each pyramid top:

1902
1928
1948
1961
1965
1987

A feel like McDavid (1997) could have his own and maybe Jagr (1972) instead of a split Gretzky-Lemieux, but a lot of people were being born by year in the mid 50s to mid 60s, so it could be more natural to have more pyramid close around that time. If we go with a Gretzky-Jagr-Crosby-McDavid

1948
1961
1972
1987
1997

Bedard (05) to Crosby (87) his a long time in hockey generation and the pyarmid seem to get too close.

Some are hard to choose, but I feel that despite Clarke being 2 year old than Lafleur. Clarke feel more Lafleur than with Bobby Hull, when Clarke scored 100pts the first time Hull was out of the NHL while Lafleur was about to do so.

Dryden was born 2 years before Clarke was drafted 5 years before and played his first nhl game in 1971, Clarke in 1970.

But hard cut off will always create those issue, maybe it is what it is.

Because the lemieux-gretzky are so close, we end up with Iginla that had is rookie season the year of Lemieux second retirement season, would it start with Jagr maybe it feel more natural.

 

[tinyzombies]

The format force things to be a bit unnatural and strange obviously, but that part of the challenge and exercise.

Birthdate of each pyramid top:

1902
1928
1948
1961
1965
1987

A feel like McDavid (1997) could have his own and maybe Jagr (1972) instead of a split Gretzky-Lemieux, but a lot of people were being born by year in the mid 50s to mid 60s, so it could be more natural to have more pyramid close around that time. If we go with a Gretzky-Jagr-Crosby-McDavid

1948
1961
1972
1987
1997

Bedard (05) to Crosby (87) his a long time in hockey generation and the pyarmid seem to get too close.

Some are hard to choose, but I feel that despite Clarke being 2 year old than Lafleur. Clarke feel more Lafleur than with Bobby Hull, when Clarke scored 100pts the first time Hull was out of the NHL while Lafleur was about to do so.

Dryden was born 2 years before Clarke was drafted 5 years before and played his first nhl game in 1971, Clarke in 1970.

But hard cut off will always create those issue, maybe it is what it is.

Because the lemieux-gretzky are so close, we end up with Iginla that had is rookie season the year of Lemieux second retirement season, would it start with Jagr maybe it feel more natural.

I agree Clarke and Dryden straddle. The better Dryden comes earlier but there was no room whereas his dynasty years do make it. And Clarke beat (a one-legged) Orr head to head.

 

[sdf]

There are idiots who seemingly likes such untalented clown as ovechkin due to some nonehockey factors. Like being fachionated by him because he's charismatic, despite that he's absolutely not, and because they just extremly loves such bullcrap as hockey statistics and trophies itself, more than the the actual game

 

[tinyzombies]

Crosby produced at a 65 point / 21 goal pace as a minus player in the 2016 playoffs. He was a on a team whose defense was 6th in the NHL in terms of goals allowed that season.

Never change history revision forum.

Thanks for making Sid’s case for him! It’s not like I excluded Ovie, he’s one spot over. Apples and oranges. Sid led a young team that beat maybe the best new rules team then was the fixer for a b2b team. Not many in history compare to that let alone Ovie. Took Ovie a long time to get a clue.

 

[tinyzombies]

i included Bedard for fun, it’s not hard to see what’s coming. Michkov leads the K in P/60 now also…

 

[Neutrinos]

There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to the tier system

 

[Bear of Bad News]

There are idiots who seemingly likes such untalented clown as ovechkin due to some nonehockey factors. Like being fachionated by him because he's charismatic, despite that he's absolutely not, and because they just extremly loves such bullcrap as hockey statistics and trophies itself, more than the the actual game

I say this with all due respect: what?

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

I tended to ignore longevity in some cases. Price’s GSAA is far ahead of second place Lundqvist and the players consistently said he’s the best. I’m restoring his legacy dammit. Same for Toews who was probably the most important player on a modern dynasty but injury and poor management ruined his legacy.

I’ve got time for Price over Lundqvist for their peaks — I mean, why not? — but it’s hardly as if Lundqvist’s got longevity as a mere “good goaltender”; he’s got impressive longevity as arguably the best in the game. Perhaps next to Price, but they at least belong together.

Karlsson showed he could play 2-way on a good team and was injured for it. Ironically Inthink he gets underrated. I’ll look again but I don’t think there’s room for me. I don’t care about stupid awards necessarily.same for Coffey., who openly mocked playing defense, which is fine when it’s working. It’s two of Marchand, Weber or Karlsson, so… Indunno.

I struggle seeing how Karlsson and — another omission — Doughty shouldn’t rank ahead of Marchand and Weber. They were clearly better players, but that’s just me.

 

[tinyzombies]

I’ve got time for Price over Lundqvist for their peaks — I mean, why not? — but it’s hardly as if Lundqvist’s got longevity as a mere “good goaltender”; he’s got impressive longevity as arguably the best in the game. Perhaps next to Price, but they at least belong together.



I struggle seeing how Karlsson and — another omission — Doughty shouldn’t rank ahead of Marchand and Weber. They were clearly better players, but that’s just me.

Agree but there’s barely room for Price. Who does Lundqvist kick out? I’m a goalie and was at his first (exhibition) game at msg and am a big fan. He was an instant crowd fav. That was also Thomas’s first game and first post lockout game (and he took the first trapezoid penalty - tho none of that counts of course).

I agree about Doughty. So who goes? I took out Marchand.

Added another row of new guys.

Updated chart in first post after you open it up.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Agree but there’s barely room for Price. Who does Lundqvist kick out? I’m a goalie and was at his first (exhibition) game at msg and am a big fan. He was an instant crowd fav. That was also Thomas’s first game and first post lockout game (and he took the first trapezoid penalty - tho none of that counts of course).

I agree about Doughty. So who goes?

It’s not as neat a pyramid, but I think here’s mine:

Crosby

Ovie

Bergeron - Chara - Datsyuk - Doughty - Karlsson - Kane - Keith - Lundqvist - Malkin - Price - Thornton - Toews

Marchand, Weber are the odd men out of your modified pyramid. I also wonder where I’d have Getzlaf and Kopitar with respect to those two.

 

[tinyzombies]

It’s not as neat a pyramid, but I think here’s mine:

Crosby

Ovie

Bergeron - Chara - Datsyuk - Doughty - Karlsson - Kane - Keith - Lundqvist - Malkin - Price - Thornton - Toews

Marchand, Weber are the odd men out of your modified pyramid. I also wonder where I’d have Getzlaf and Kopitar with respect to those two.

Ok I’ll do that. I’ll do that for Makar, Lalonde and Hasek too. And that opens the door for some of the others to get in.

 

[Neutrinos]

Pronger peaked as the best Dman of his generation

He's the only Dman since Orr to win the Hart, he's the only player since Gretzky to lead the league in +/- multiple times, and he was the best player on each of the 3 teams he went to the Finals with in a 5 year span

 

[tinyzombies]

Pronger peaked as the best Dman of his generation

He's the only Dman since Orr to win the Hart, he's the only player since Gretzky to lead the league in +/- multiple times, and he was the best player on each of the 3 teams he went to the Finals with in a 5 year span

I moved him up some.

 

[weaponomega]

There seems like there should be a pyramid between Gretzky and Orr? Dryden and Lafleur and arguably Robinson don't really make sense in Gretzky's pyramid

 

[sdf]

If my post was not immediately deleted then it is probably was writed incorrectly

 

[rmartin65]

It's an interesting idea, for sure. I don't know if I agree with some of the pyramid choices (I'll echo the Gretzky/Lemieux thing, Dryden in Gretzky's pyramid looks odd, get Bedard out of there, etc), but I think the concept is a good one.

I have some real bones to pick with the pre-NHL pyramid, though. Taylor at the top, fine. But I'd definitely bump Malone down a row, if not two, and probably Stuart down one as well. I'd replace them in the second row with Vezina and Bowie. Boucher (Georges, right?) probably shouldn't be in this category (he would be in the Nighbor group, IMO), Davidson doesn't make my list either. I'd propose something like the following, players listed alphabetically-

Taylor
Bowie, Lalonde, Vezina
Campbell, Johnson, McGee, Phillips, Stuart
Grant, Malone, Moran, L. Patrick, Pulford, A. Smith, Young
​

I probably missed someone just typing this out quickly, but this is the general idea.

EDIT- looks like I have two too many names in my bottom row. Oh well.

 

[MadLuke]

looks like I have two too many names in my bottom row

May as well, I am not sure why the pyramid theme is so strongly followed but not for the last row

 

[tinyzombies]

There seems like there should be a pyramid between Gretzky and Orr? Dryden and Lafleur and arguably Robinson don't really make sense in Gretzky's pyramid

Lafleur was a year or two away from having his own pyramid but the dynasty took a toll and teams started going after him.

His injuries after the dynasty:

This is what happened to his longevity:

Significant Injuries

Missed part of 1974-75 season with broken left index finger, an injury suffered when he was slashed by Darryl Sittler during Montreal's Feb. 12, 1975, game at Toronto. He did not return until Montreal's March 7, 1975, game vs. Washington. ...

Then a long stretch of health during the dynasty.

Then:

Missed part of 1979-80 regular season with strained ligament in knee, an injury suffered during Montreal's Feb. 19, 1980, game at Washington. He did not return until Montreal's March 6, 1980, game vs. Edmonton. ... Missed remainder of 1980 playoffs with bruised left knee, an injury suffered when he was kneed by Pat Boutette in Montreal's April 11, 1980, playoff game at Hartford. ... Missed start of 1980-81 season with pulled right hamstring, an injury suffered during Montreal's practice on Oct. 8, 1980. He did not make his 1980-81 season debut until Montreal's Oct. 18, 1980, game vs. Vancouver. ... Missed part of 1980-81 season with tonsillitis, diagnosed on Nov. 20, 1980. He did not return until Montreal's Nov. 29, 1980, game vs. Minnesota. ... Missed part of 1980-81 season with scratched right eyeball, suffered when he was caught by Charlie Simmer's errant high stick during Montreal's Dec. 30, 1980, game vs. Los Angeles. He did not return to action until Montreal's Jan. 10, 1981, game vs. Quebec. ... Missed part of 1980-81 season with bruised right ankle, an injury suffered when he blocked a shot by Dave Pichette during Montreal's Jan. 10, 1981, game vs. Quebec. He did not return until Montreal's Jan. 24, 1981, game vs. Philadelphia. ... Missed part of 1980-81 season with charley horse, an injury suffered when he was kneed by Denis Potvin during Montreal's March 17, 1981, game at N.Y. Islanders. While he was out with the injury, he suffered facial injuries in a March 24, 1981, car accident. He did not return until Montreal's April 3, 1981, game vs. Hartford. ... Missed part of Montreal's 1981 training camp with sprained back, an injury suffered during the 1981 Canada Cup. ... Missed part of 1981-82 season with eye injury, suffered when he was struck by Mark Hardy's errant stick during Montreal's Nov. 10, 1981, game at Los Angeles. He did not return until Montreal's Nov. 19, 1981, game vs. Quebec. ... Missed part of 1981-82 season with bruised bone in left foot, an injury suffered when he was hit by teammate Gaston Gingras' shot during Montreal's March 11, 1982, game vs. Chicago. He did not return until Montreal's April 3, 1982, game vs. Buffalo. ... Missed one game of 1982-83 season with injured right eye, suffered when he was facewashed by Dale Hunter's glove during Montreal's Oct. 11, 1982, game at Quebec. ... Missed part of 1982-83 season with broken right pinky toe, an injury suffered when he collided with Steve Payne during Montreal's Nov. 9, 1982, game at Minnesota. He did not return until Montreal's Dec. 4, 1982, game vs. Boston. ...

First retirement.

Missed part of 1988-89 season with broken bone on the outside of his left foot, an injury suffered when he was hit by a shot during N.Y. Rangers' Dec. 10, 1988, game at Boston. The injury sidelined him for the Rangers' Dec. 17, 1988, game at Montreal -- which would have been his first homecoming -- and he did not return until the Rangers' Jan. 7, 1989, game at N.Y. Islanders. ... Missed part of 1989-90 season with bruised left ankle, an injury suffered when he was hit by a shot from teammate Iiro Jarvi during Quebec's Nov. 14, 1989, game vs. Winnipeg. He did not return until Quebec's Dec. 23, 1989, game vs. Buffalo. ... Missed part of 1989-90 season with broken left cheekbone, an injury suffered when he was checked from behind into the boards by Dean Kennedy in Quebec's Jan. 30, 1990, game vs. Buffalo. Lafleur's face slammed right into the glass on the play, and Quebec coach Michel Bergeron initially said the injury might be career-ending. Lafleur did not return untli Quebec's March 24, 1990, game vs. Toronto.

 

[The Panther]

Dryden and Gretzky in the same pyramid when they never played in the NHL together is jarring.

 

[tinyzombies]

Dryden and Gretzky in the same pyramid when they never played in the NHL together is jarring.

Ok fixed

Maybe an overall color scheme to show that the eras aren’t all equal.

 

[wetcoast]

Gretzky and Lemieux are in different pyramids, but Crosby and McDavid aren't?

Also, 0 points all time Bedard made it...?

(I also wish that the bottom row was 7 instead of 5...but that's just me being weird I think)

1,3,5,7 makes for a better pyramid technically I guess but Firsov looks pretty iffy at the bottom of his row of 5 and it would still likely be so with 7 guys.

 

[tinyzombies]

1,3,5,7 makes for a better pyramid technically I guess but Firsov looks pretty iffy at the bottom of his row of 5 and it would still likely be so with 7 guys.

I can do that

 

[Neutrinos]

What's the rationale for Keith in a tier above Karlsson, Doughty, Weber, and Chara?

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I have 10 points to make:

1. Taylor & Lalonde should be/were on the same level.
2. Pulford should not be on the 3rd list, but be with Bowie and that one-eyed leader of the Silver Seven dynasty before Taylor left diapers.
3. Davidson GTFOOH.
4. Morenz over Nighbor neither of them thought.
5. Lindsay below Apps?
6. I do appreciate the Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux "eras", though Esposito is clearly underappreciated.
7. But to put Crosby over OV (have they not been the same tier most of their careers?)
8. Trying to jam a 1 king per era narrative has skewed it away from reality.
9. Bowie or McGee? Taylor or Lalonde? Morenz or Nighbor? Howe or Richard? Gretzky or Lemieux? Hasek or Roy? Crosby or Ovechkin? THESE ARE THE STILL SALIENT QUESTIONS OF HISTORY. Among others.
10. The attempt to era-tier players is appreciated, generating discussion and perspective on all-time greats.

Literally everyone puts crosby over ovechkin lol come on your really surprised?

 

[tinyzombies]

What's the rationale for Keith in a tier above Karlsson, Doughty, Weber, and Chara?

None - he got shuffled as I was moving things around. This thing is hard to read now with two extra rows..

actually, i think he's fine. I added Hedman ahead of him who was a big omission.

Chart updated in original post.