All-Time Best Generational Player Pyramid

[tinyzombies]

Broken up by generational talent (the best player over a large gap of time, basically, and then the tree follows), a fictitious categorization but it feels right somehow. How would you break it up differently?

Modified March 2024:

Modified Oct 2023:

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[tinyzombies]

Personally, I put Rocket over Beliveau. Feels a lot like Lebron vs MJ. Lafleur gets the same flak.

Lumping the Habs 70's dynasty with the 80's seemed better since they did bump up lightly against the Islanders and Oilers, though not really. They never did play against Orr, the other Habs dynasty did.

"Taylor" is just pre-NHL.

Left Matthew Tkachuk out - he deserves it.

Some goalies should be there too - Ullmark, Saros, Sarokin, Shesterkin, Oettinger, Hellebuyck... man there's a lot of good goalies out there right now.

 

[alko]

Very accurate.

 

[Albatros]

Well, if the definition of generational in this case is a dozen or so players that most defined the particular generation in North America, I don't think there should be any Europeans before Gen X although I guess one could debate about Salming. Boomers really should be one big generation. Bedard is a Zoomer just as much as McDavid, while Karlsson & co. are definitely Millennials.

 

[tinyzombies]

Well, if the definition of generational in this case is a dozen or so players that most defined the particular generation in North America, I don't think there should be any Europeans before Gen X although I guess one could debate about Salming. Boomers really should be one big generation. Bedard is a Zoomer just as much as McDavid, while Karlsson & co. are definitely Millennials.

I meant by generational talent, another fictitious categorization. And "Taylor" is just pre-NHL.

 

[Albatros]

Talent is really difficult to assess, of course historically but even with more recent players. For example, are players like Réal Cloutier or Mike Ribeiro generational talents in the sense of belonging to the dozen or so most talented players of their own generations in North America? Probably.

 

[tinyzombies]

Talent is really difficult to assess, of course historically but even with more recent players. For example, are players like Réal Cloutier or Mike Ribeiro generational talents in the sense of belonging to the dozen or so most talented players of their own generations in North America? Probably.

i don't get what you are saying.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Broken up by generational talent (the best player over a large gap of time, basically, and then the tree follows), a fictitious categorization but it feels right somehow. How would you break it up differently?

View attachment 749136

Good job, but I’m guessing you plain don’t care for Erik Karlsson. Iirc, the HoH ranked him ahead of Weber, Datsyuk, Marchand, Bergeron, Price, Toews, not to mention the brunt if not all of those “young’uns”.

Lundqvist’s also a notable omission, as is Lindros if we consider that Bedard’s there.

Are the red backgrounds for players who are between generations or something? Don’t really get that.

 

[Hawkieguy]

Broken up by generational talent (the best player over a large gap of time, basically, and then the tree follows), a fictitious categorization but it feels right somehow. How would you break it up differently?

View attachment 749157

I too thought this was a well laid out list in most cases, there is very little I would disagree with here...maybe Tony Esposito instead of Dryden

 

[bobholly39]

Don't mean to be too harsh, but this is kind of a mess. Players that fit in one generaiton vs another seems weird.

Lafleur/Dryden same generation as Gretzky/Bourque/Messier, but Roy/Lemieux/Hasek a different generation?

Also - Crosby a tier above McDavid? McDavid is pacing higher so far, but for tiers they are same level. Ovechkin too.

Also - what do the colors represent? Red seems to be for Habs...what about all the rest?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

McDavid should be the top of his own tier with the black cell players listed below him.

All the other tiers you have are about 10 years apart, which Crosby to McDavid fits. Crosby isnt the same generation as McDavid and the other black cell players, just happens to have overlap

 

[Michael Farkas]

Gretzky and Lemieux are in different pyramids, but Crosby and McDavid aren't?

Also, 0 points all time Bedard made it...?

(I also wish that the bottom row was 7 instead of 5...but that's just me being weird I think)

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I would question Morenz being the generational talent over Eddie Shore.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Also - what do the colors represent? Red seems to be for Habs...what about all the rest?

Ah of course they’re Habs… Unlike Mahovlich and Chelios, the former not making the cut having twelve fewer games than Weber for the team, and the latter mostly playing for other teams post-consolidation.

… Sorry for piling on with criticisms @tinyzombies: I think these pyramids are conceptually interesting, and I get that it’s tricky fitting all these players into neat generations, and if nothing else you’ve made for a very good conversation starter.

 

[VanIslander]

Broken up by generational talent (the best player over a large gap of time, basically, and then the tree follows), a fictitious categorization but it feels right somehow. How would you break it up

I have 10 points to make:

1. Taylor & Lalonde should be/were on the same level.
2. Pulford should not be on the 3rd list, but be with Bowie and that one-eyed leader of the Silver Seven dynasty before Taylor left diapers.
3. Davidson GTFOOH.
4. Morenz over Nighbor neither of them thought.
5. Lindsay below Apps?
6. I do appreciate the Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux "eras", though Esposito is clearly underappreciated.
7. But to put Crosby over OV (have they not been the same tier most of their careers?)
8. Trying to jam a 1 king per era narrative has skewed it away from reality.
9. Bowie or McGee? Taylor or Lalonde? Morenz or Nighbor? Howe or Richard? Gretzky or Lemieux? Hasek or Roy? Crosby or Ovechkin? THESE ARE THE STILL SALIENT QUESTIONS OF HISTORY. Among others.
10. The attempt to era-tier players is appreciated, generating discussion and perspective on all-time greats.

 

[tinyzombies]

Good job, but I’m guessing you plain don’t care for Erik Karlsson. Iirc, the HoH ranked him ahead of Weber, Datsyuk, Marchand, Bergeron, Price, Toews, not to mention the brunt if not all of those “young’uns”.

Lundqvist’s also a notable omission, as is Lindros if we consider that Bedard’s there.

Are the red backgrounds for players who are between generations or something? Don’t really get that.

I tended to ignore longevity in some cases. Price’s GSAA is far ahead of second place Lundqvist and the players consistently said he’s the best. I think he’s the most talented ever and the players would probably agree - tho goalies keep evolving and we have some dandies now. He’s have more bling if he played on another team. I’m restoring his legacy dammit. Same for Toews who was probably the most important player on a modern dynasty but injury and poor management ruined his legacy.

Karlsson showed he could play 2-way on a good team and was injured for it. His transition defense and stick checks are elite. Ironically Inthink he gets underrated. I’ll look again but I don’t think there’s room for me. I don’t care about stupid awards necessarily.same for Coffey., who openly mocked playing defense, which is fine when it’s working. It’s two of Marchand, Weber or Karlsson, so… Indunno.

I guess Inshould break it off and start a McDavid tree that will solve the other problems.

Red backgrounds are Habs, which is what this was done for - a Habs fb group.

Lindros has to be added, I agree.

Ah of course they’re Habs… Unlike Mahovlich and Chelios, the former not making the cut having twelve fewer games than Weber for the team, and the latter mostly playing for other teams post-consolidation.

… Sorry for piling on with criticisms @tinyzombies: I think these pyramids are conceptually interesting, and I get that it’s tricky fitting all these players into neat generations, and if nothing else you’ve made for a very good conversation starter.

More than welcome

 

[tinyzombies]

1. Taylor & Lalonde should be/were on the same level.
2. Pulford should not be on the 3rd list, but be with Bowie and that one-eyed leader of the Silver Seven dynasty before Taylor left diapers.
3. Davidson GTFOOH.
4. Morenz over Nighbor neither of them thought.
5. Lindsay below Apps?
6. I do appreciate the Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux "eras", though Esposito is clearly underappreciated.
7. But to put Crosby over OV (have they not been the same tier most of their careers?)

- Taylor and Lalonde - really? Not my impression. I’m a Habs fan so you don’t have to twist my arm.
- Pulford is on the first list. I’m lumping all pre-NHL together, there just weren’t enough players playing enough games.
- Davidson stays- longevity be damned!
- Morenz the young German looked up to the German Nighbor in his comments - almost everyone else thought Morenz was the man. I’m restoring him also!
- Apps I dunno. I tend to think Lindsay is a touch overrated because of coattails tho of course he was great. Apps was affected by the war but was a bull and considered the best. Same with Schmidt. Legacies restored- tho they are all next to each other on the tier.
-OV can’t carry Crosby’s jock. Also he’s right next to him, sort of

 

[tinyzombies]

Don't mean to be too harsh, but this is kind of a mess. Players that fit in one generaiton vs another seems weird.

Lafleur/Dryden same generation as Gretzky/Bourque/Messier, but Roy/Lemieux/Hasek a different generation?

Also - Crosby a tier above McDavid? McDavid is pacing higher so far, but for tiers they are same level. Ovechkin too.

Also - what do the colors represent? Red seems to be for Habs...what about all the rest?

Roy wasn’t Roy until the 90’s. He was sharing time with Hayward in the 80s.

Lemieux didn’t escape Gretzky’s shadow until he won those Cups. But ranking him second to Gretzky never seemed right to me.

Hasek is totally a different generation. The game changed drastically.

Habs not the same gen as Islanders and Oilers but it’s the same brand of hockey. The game didn’t change, and Gretzky buried Lafleur to oblivion, otherwise Guy could have been leading one of these tiers. Especially if Pollock had drafted Bossy like he should have.

That’s how I see it anyway!

Changes made, another tier could be added to the current stars.




Maybe I can split the first group into two smaller groups.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Gretzky and Lemieux were born 4.5 years apart.

And Ovechkin > Crosby

 

[tinyzombies]

Gretzky and Lemieux were born 4.5 years apart.

And Ovechkin > Crosby

The 80s was Gretzky, the 90s Mario took over - there’s a very clear break there, tho Gretz was still #2 despite that dirtbag Suter. What Mario did to poor Lafontaine was enough to get him into the Hall.

Not a chance - Crosby carried a team with no defense to b2b Cups.

These are all opinions of course

 

[Midnight Judges]

Not a chance - Crosby carried a team with no defense to b2b Cups.

Crosby produced at a 65 point / 21 goal pace as a minus player in the 2016 playoffs. He was a on a team whose defense was 6th in the NHL in terms of goals allowed that season.

Never change history revision forum.

 

[tinyzombies]

Crosby produced at a 65 point / 21 goal pace as a minus player in the 2016 playoffs.

Never change history revision forum.

Dude had no D behind him and a rookie goalie. I saw that team play several times - they were phenomenal on the rush but it was Crosby fixing things all over the ice. He did whatever was needed of him. They mocked his scoring so he popped 50. Sid could do anything, including adjust to a blistering pace and win Cups. And he had another great year last year at what is he now 36? Without much help on a poorly constructed team. Give him back those years stolen from him by cheap shots and injury and he’s even more ridiculous.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Their team defense was 6th in the NHL out of 31 teams in 2016.

 

[seventieslord]

Gretzky and Lemieux are in different pyramids, but Crosby and McDavid aren't?

This is exactly what I was going to say.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Can we please ban all Crosby vs. Ovechkin discussion from HoH? It's suffocating repetition.