Speculation: All Things Pete DeBoer - Part II

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

Anyway, I think the Juniors are a completely different animal than the NHL where the big boys play.

What worked for Pete there is not exactly working(and that's putting it mildly) all that well here.

Yeah, I think that just like there are some players who can light it up in junior but who can't crack it in the NHL, there are some coaches who do fine in junior who can't translate to the NHL.

 

[njdevils1982]

Anyway, I think the Juniors are a completely different animal than the NHL where the big boys play.

What worked for Pete there is not exactly working(and that's putting it mildly) all that well here.

Yeah, I think that just like there are some players who can light it up in junior but who can't crack it in the NHL, there are some coaches who do fine in junior who can't translate to the NHL.

yes.


but it would be nice to see them have a chance regardless at this point for what its worth…….someone mentioned whitney a game or two just on the merit of his leading the A squad ………

…….the team needs a punch in the lou and we all agree.

 

[NJD Kula]

I don't necessarily agree that he hasn't worked younger players in though. Henrique, Merrill, and Severson have all taken on significant minutes as young players. Larsson got quite a bit of time as a very young player his first couple years. Gelinas played frequently despite defensive issues that eventually led to sheltered minutes or being a scratch. Josefson you can make a case for, but he's disappeared again after having a good stretch of play.

I just think the "bad with kids" thing is a bit overblown around here. I'm not saying Pete is amazing at developing kids, but I don't think he's nearly as bad as people claim he is either. I think with every coach you're going to get kids who work out and kids who don't. And I think it's too early to say whether or not our kids are being "ruined" by our coach. We seem to have just as many kids that are doing well as kids who aren't.

The main point is Deboer is bad. So why are they playing guys like Harrold and Gionta so much? Larsson needs to be in there. Josefson needs more yes. Who cares if Jacob isn't scoring, not like Gionta does anything amazing. Dude can't even win faceoffs but ya let's put him and Harrold on the ice in key defensive situations.

How many late game blown leads are needed to get career AHLers demoted? If we're going to lose with scrubs the point is why not let players with actual potential play and develop?

A new coach is needed because Deboer has lost this team and 100 of the past 160 games LOL

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

yes.


but it would be nice to see them have a chance regardless at this point for what its worth…….someone mentioned whitney a game or two just on the merit of his leading the A squad ………

…….the team needs a punch in the lou and we all agree.

I don't really mind some of our forwards in the AHL getting a call up. I don't mind them getting the experience, and I'd like to see what they could do more than watching some of our more useless veteran forwards attempt to skate around the ice.

I was more referring to Pete possibly not being able to make the jump from Junior coach to NHL coach in a particularly adept fashion. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The only reason Lou would keep Pete at this point is if he thinks the season is salvageable.

Since it isn't Pete needs to go. Lou won't keep him just to lose more, and I doubt he keeps him if the season is over this early.

 

[MadDevil]

The main point is Deboer is bad. So why are they playing guys like Harrold and Gionta so much? Larsson needs to be in there. Josefson needs more yes. Who cares if Jacob isn't scoring, not like Gionta does anything amazing. Dude can't even win faceoffs but ya let's put him and Harrold on the ice in key defensive situations.

How many late game blown leads are needed to get career AHLers demoted? If we're going to lose with scrubs the point is why not let players with actual potential play and develop?

A new coach is needed because Deboer has lost this team and 100 of the past 160 games LOL

Look, I'm not saying Pete should stay. His personnel management has been an issue and the fact is we're going to miss the playoffs for the third straight year. That alone should cost him his job.

My issue is with the "Won't somebody think about the poor kids" types who claim he's terrible with kids and that they're benched for every single mistake and never told why, when I think there's more narrative than anything else. Take one of the more "abused" kids around here in Gelinas. He came right out and said that the coaches give the players feedback all the time and that he knew what he needed to fix. Or a kid like Josefson who never once complained, stayed patient, and eventually it paid off for him (although he's since tailed off again). Merrill and Severson have made plenty of mistakes, but keep plugging along. Which brings us to the always hot button topic of Adam Larsson. I do think he's been treated a little unfairly at times, but not the point where he should be firing pucks at the coaches head as was suggested in one of the threads around here. Quite honestly I think he's just a slower developing player. Guys like Severson and Merrill, while young, have at least played in North America their entire lives and probably had a step up on Larsson because of it.

I also think you have to be careful with the "season is over, might as well play the kids" argument as well. If the kids look like they're ready, then yeah might as well see what they've got. But I don't think throwing a kid like Boucher on a bad team in garbage time is necessarily better for his development, especially when he looked completely lost when he got called up earlier. I would like to see what Matteau looks like though. Beyond that I don't think there's anybody in Albany that really needs a shot. Have we forgotten how terrible Whitney looked when he got called up last year?

 

[ScottyK]

Pete is "bad with kids" because some kids haven't lived up to the billing and angry fans need a escape goat.

 

[JerryGigantic]

Yeah, I don't know why Pete messed with success once this team finally found it in the Tampa game.

I have avoided all this because it is a depressing, never ending loop. And up until this season, the system seemed valid -- limit shots against, dominate zone time and wins will come.

But we don't really do either of those things well anymore.

And that Caps game was an utter abomination. If it wasn't Christmas, I would have fired Pete for that one.

Those lines were legit Pejorative Slured and the game was over before it began, basically. Whatever confidence and momentum we had struggled to find was brought back to square one.

Just plain stupid.

Pete is respected as a good hockey mind, is among the Team Canada core group and is close with several of the legendary coaches, who sing his praises.

But he is bashing his head against the wall here, coaching with too much desperation and no common sense.

I am very late to this party, because I actually like Pete's system. But we aren't even doing that. And he has no other ideas other than idiotic ones... So he has got to go.

Pete sucks. The end.

 

[JerryGigantic]

We dominated possession last year, just cycled the **** out of teams and we were a huge pain in the ass to play against. It didn't really result much offensively but we were competitive at least. I don't know why or what happened but we look completely different with our cycling/possession game.

I really have no idea what this teams approach is regarding a game plan/system anymore other than to just hope and pray something magically happens.

Everyone thought we'd be better than last year. I really can't stand Pete but icing 3/4 of an AHL roster due to injuries, all our vets falling off a cliff, general underachieving and awful discipline have all played a part.

It's just a complete dumpster fire, cluster ****, gong show train wreck at this point.

Pretty much spot on.

 

[JerryGigantic]

Pete has annoyed me more this year with his decisions but I can't rip on this guy. I've tried and it just doesn't feel right. He does not have the tools to properly do his job. End of story. I don't care what field you work in, you're not going to have success if you're not given the proper tools to work with. Our roster is just really really really bad this year. It is what it is.

He's a lame duck and everyone knows it. He's sticking around because this team has no hope for success this season and someone unfortunately has to do this job. He has the respect of the vets and when your roster is 437,000 years old, that's probably a good thing. I'd hate to see what this team would look like if they completely didn't give a **** and just went through the motions every game. I don't buy the notion that this team doesn't work hard. They're just a poor team.

A sad reality that makes this as much of a lost season as any I can remember... Lemaire made the JMac year exciting, actually. And last season we were relevant, at least, until about two weeks left.

We have been a rudderless ship with a broken mast from about a month into the season. This was over before it even started.

And just sucks out loud to watch.

 

[JerryGigantic]

Henrique, Larsson, Merrill, Gelinas, Severson...kids don't get chances here.

As much as Pete has to go, the whole "ruins young players" trope is entirely, 100%, unequivocally false.

And those that keep pushing it are willfully ignorant.

 

[Combat Koala]

Pete is "bad with kids" because some kids haven't lived up to the billing and angry fans need a escape goat.

Deboer has given us zero reasons to like him or the product of his coaching this season. Calling him a "scapegoat" is wrong since he is a mediocre coach at best. The "bad with kids" -part is extremely arguable and I don't feel like taking part in that because it only results in going back-and-forth with opinions based on an individuals personal views of his efforts as an NHL coach.

The reason I'm not personally satisfied with Deboer is because of his variable degrees of accountability and the fact that he never seems to be honest about what is actually happening on the ice. I know he knows, so why doesn't he just admit it and try to do something about it? Failing to recognize the blown leads as a recurring pattern, giving the team optional practices after blowout losses, making excuses (such as the laughable tough building comments)... Just be real for once.

I'm not saying he should butcher the team in front of the media or start calling names out, but it's right there on the tape; just say it how it is and try to fix it. The system has seen little to no changes at all despite not working this season. He is like a stubborn child with some of his decisions. His personnel decisions are also god awful from time to time, as evidenced by Gionta taking key faceoffs or Harrold playing twenty minutes on some nights.

And yes, I am very well aware of the roster sucking BIG TIME.

 

[hidek91]

I'm not defending DeBoer (he's to blame for this season) but you guys seem to bash him too much, while not speaking a word about performance of our GM. Are you surprised that we were dominated by Capitals? What did you expect? Their defence core are Alzner, Niskanen, Orpik, Green, Carlson, it's light years ahead of ours. I won't compare forwards because it's obvious.

This team isn't well built, and even that doesn't describe it accurately enough - we ice mix of AHL level and guys that are basically done, yet you expect good results.

I understand that there are some concerns with his personnel decisions, accountability, country club atmosphere and I agree with those opinions but let's not get crazy here - people here were crying about Tedenby and he turned out to be a bust. People here are crying about Josefson, however when you take off pink glasses, you'd see a player who is actually fast and better than Gionta in faceoff dot but can't finish, doesn't bring grit and looks like will be heading in the same direction as Brunner and Tedenby.

On the other hand, people didn't want Gomez and I guess they've changed their opinion. Where are 'space junk' opinions about Bernier? Gionta isn't that bad either - at least not for 4th liner and not for what he's paid. Those guys are used on 3rd line sometimes but that's because of injuries. I also don't understand bashing Harrold - he's perfect #7 d-man and when he's on the ice, he doesn't make stupid mistakes and while not being second Chara, he's generally solid.

Once again, he isn't perfect coach but looks like you're looking for scapegoat. His results were getting worse year after year but (suprisingly) so was the roster.

 

[Uli Hiemer]

did we think after the tampa game this team was going to go on some winning streak?

c'mon now.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

And just sucks out loud to watch.

Have you been sneaking in some Edmonton games to get your train fix?

 

[njdevil26]

I hope to see a TG tweet saying "Practice has started and Pete DeBoer is not here"

 

[Traitor Zach]

did we think after the tampa game this team was going to go on some winning streak?

c'mon now.

If we don't beat Carolina it might get real ugly the next week and a half. Rangers, Pens, Canadiens after Carolina up through Jan 2nd.

 

[NJD Kula]

As much as Pete has to go, the whole "ruins young players" trope is entirely, 100%, unequivocally false.

And those that keep pushing it are willfully ignorant.

You could spin it another way.

Thanks to Lou Pete no longer has Fayne, Tallinder, and Volchenkov to slot into the lineup ahead of the younger more talented guys. Merrill and Severson are in the lineup because these guys are gone.

If Salvador were healthy he'd be playing and sucking every night, just like Harrold has magically found his way into the lineup.

If Lou isn't going to fire Deboer then he needs to at least take away his toys.

 

[glenwo2]

Pete is "bad with kids" because some kids haven't lived up to the billing and angry fans need a escape goat.

I think many fans would actually WANT an "escape" goat to escape this situation.


But I guess you can say that Pete is indeed a SCAPEGOAT but that's how it usually goes, right?

Team sucks and isn't successful, it's the Coach who takes the fall. It's the same in every sport.

 

[Tretyak 20]

Pete is "bad with kids" because some kids haven't lived up to the billing and angry fans need a escape goat.

Pete is bad with kids because he treats kids like vets and vets like kids. Kids need to be allowed to play through their mistakes - while being taught what they did wrong and how to play situations correctly. Vets (who presumably know better) need to be benched. Pete has that completely backwards, and the results are showing it.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Pete is "bad with kids" because some kids haven't lived up to the billing and angry fans need a escape goat.

and the coach has nothing to do with them not living up to the billing?

 

[Devils Dominion]

If we don't beat Carolina it might get real ugly the next week and a half. Rangers, Pens, Canadiens after Carolina up through Jan 2nd.

Since 3-0, everything's been ugly but they do seem to play better at times vs tougher teams (Ex: TB, Chicago).

The Rags game @The Dump on Saturday night has the chance of being a true slaughter since they would like nothing better than to trounce and embarrass us.

Hopefully Pete pushes the right buttons for at least that night.

 

[Devs4L]

Pete is bad with kids because he treats kids like vets and vets like kids. Kids need to be allowed to play through their mistakes - while being taught what they did wrong and how to play situations correctly. Vets (who presumably know better) need to be benched. Pete has that completely backwards, and the results are showing it.

Depends on the makeup of the kid. This one-size fits all thinking that all kids need to be developed the same way is so out of whack, and yet it's become bible for some people.

It completely depends on a players confidence level, IQ, ability to retain what you're teaching him, if he can take it to the ice and execute it, skill set, response to adversity, what motivates the player, not to even mention what position he plays, and so much more. For example, you can't tell me a player like Severson and Tedenby have the same makeup, and can be coached the exact same way.

There's no blueprint, or step by step directions on how to develop a young player. Letting a kid play through any mistakes, telling him how to fix it, rinse and repeat, isn't always the way to do it.

 

[Devs4L]

and the coach has nothing to do with them not living up to the billing?

Can you honestly watch players that Pete has shouldered a gigantic portion of the blame for not developing, like Loktionov, Tedenby, and Josefson, and tell me there's no amount of scapegoating going on there?

And please, don't reference players like Larsson and Gelinas who we're a MINIMUM of 2-4 years away from knowing for sure what kind of players they are, how they were developed, and what effect that had on their game.

What Andy Greene was at 23-25 years old is miles away from what he is now as a 32 year old defenseman.

Greene was on the receiving end of many of the coaching decisions that players like Larsson and Gelinas currently are, by the way.

 

[EliasFTW]

Pete is "bad with kids" because some kids haven't lived up to the billing and angry fans need a escape goat.

Maybe they haven't but we are not the first fanbase to say "bad with kids" When he was signed flordia fans came in saying that he was bad with kids.