All Things AHL Part VI

[Blueston]

Calling Edmundson a 3rd pairing defenseman is kinda funny. I could understand saying he was a 2nd pairing, which honestly probably what he is But calling him a 3rd pairing is just criminally underrating him.

But, he is the best LHD we have right now. Gunner is a 2nd pairing at best and Jbo is a shell of his former self. And then Dunn is just young. There is no LHD on this team that I would trade with Ed's minutes if we would to trade him.

You explain well why he is playing above his talent level. He is real nice 3rd pairing, acceptable 2nd pairing player. He is fine. And we don't today have anyone better to put in that role, agreed. But just because JB got old quick doesn't make JE a core player. It means we need Dunn (and maybe eventually Walman) to play up or we need to go find a real quality LD.

Bringing this back to AHL, while we lack talent up front today, you look at talented youngsters coming (RT, JK, KK, TT, Blais, Barbashev, maybe even Sanford) and we could be in strong position up front within 2 years. Not sure we can say the same on D unless Walman really comes through, as along with Dunn he is only guy we have who shows potential to be better than 2/3 pairing guy.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

He's nowhere near as good as either of those Chicago guys were during their Cup years.

It’s a role. I’m smarter than to try and change your mind.

 

[David Dennison]

You explain well why he is playing above his talent level. He is real nice 3rd pairing, acceptable 2nd pairing player. He is fine. And we don't today have anyone better to put in that role, agreed. But just because JB got old quick doesn't make JE a core player. It means we need Dunn (and maybe eventually Walman) to play up or we need to go find a real quality LD.

Bringing this back to AHL, while we lack talent up front today, you look at talented youngsters coming (RT, JK, KK, TT, Blais, Barbashev, maybe even Sanford) and we could be in strong position up front within 2 years. Not sure we can say the same on D unless Walman really comes through, as along with Dunn he is only guy we have who shows potential to be better than 2/3 pairing guy.

Yeah, some fans seem to be hanging onto Edmundson's production during the playoffs and early this season rather than looking at the rest of his career where he is a below average offensive/transition player. Im not convinced that he is that much better than Borts. Big, physical, can skate, but lack skill/vision/patience, just Edmundson gets to play with Parayko and Petro and Borts plays with Carl/Bouw/rookie Dunn/etc.

But a bubble of a lot of youngsters all coming up at once does scare me, I am not sold that we are going to be competitive with three or four 19-21 year olds getting top 9 ice time in the next 2-3 years.

 

[stl76]

Not sure where this idea came from that JE is a top defenseman. He is 3rd in even strength icetime and second on PK, but has the worst GA/60 at both even strength and PK of all of our defensemen. He has a negative relative Corsi and relative Fenwick. He has lowest on-ice save percentage of any of our defensemen (which could be partially luck). Last year his numbers looked better, but he wasn't asked to do as much and was only 5th in even strength ice time and 4th on PK. Watching nightly, my eyes confirm the stats- he is a decent player being asked to play a larger role than he is ideally suited for. I don't mean to suggest he should be dealt for scraps, but that he is a complimentary piece and is hardly irreplaceable.

Where are you getting these stats? According to corsica, Ed has played 129.78 mins on the PK, which is the most of any Blues defenseman. For reference, Pietrangelo and Parayko are the next highest with 121.7 and 109.93 minutes played on the PK respectively. On the PK, Ed has been on ice for 15 GA on the PK while Pietrangelo and Parayko have been on ice for 14 and 12 repsectively.

Ed may have a slightly higher GA/60, but I think a fair amount of that has to do with him playing a greater quanity and more difficult minutes on the PK. Ed's TOI%QoC on the PK is 48.37, which is lower than Pietrangelo's 49.32 but higher than Parayko's 47.26. Their QoC numbers 5v5 are similar, except Ed's numbers are much closer to Pietrangelo's than Parayko's.

All of this is really besides the major point, because if you are comparing Ed to your other 2 best defenseman, and he plays similar minutes, then he is pretty much by definition not a bottom pairing guy. Not saying he should be considered untouchable, but who do you think is replacing the minutes that Edmundson plays?

 

[Blueston]

Where are you getting these stats? According to corsica, Ed has played 129.78 mins on the PK, which is the most of any Blues defenseman. For reference, Pietrangelo and Parayko are the next highest with 121.7 and 109.93 minutes played on the PK respectively. On the PK, Ed has been on ice for 15 GA on the PK while Pietrangelo and Parayko have been on ice for 14 and 12 repsectively.

Ed may have a slightly higher GA/60, but I think a fair amount of that has to do with him playing a greater quanity and more difficult minutes on the PK. Ed's TOI%QoC on the PK is 48.37, which is lower than Pietrangelo's 49.32 but higher than Parayko's 47.26. Their QoC numbers 5v5 are similar, except Ed's numbers are much closer to Pietrangelo's than Parayko's.

All of this is really besides the major point, because if you are comparing Ed to your other 2 best defenseman, and he plays similar minutes, then he is pretty much by definition not a bottom pairing guy. Not saying he should be considered untouchable, but who do you think is replacing the minutes that Edmundson plays?

My stats were from Hockey Reference and TOI was per game. Because Petro was hurt his per game is higher even though he has played a bit less overall. The GA/60 was broken out by ES and by PK. So that is why the numbers differ a bit from yours.

We are weak on LD at this point, with more depth than quality, and this has meant Ed plays above his talent. I don't doubt he is playing tough minutes. I am not even arguing that we should be playing one of our other LD in those minutes. I would merely suggest that we are lucky he is playing them mostly with either Petro or Parayko because if he were playing those tough minutes with someone like himself we would be in real trouble.

 

[Stealth JD]

I'm hoping a Mikkola-Parayko pairing comes to fruition and is the envy of the league in 3 years.

 

[Blueston]

Just because I said JE wasn't a cornerstone player was no reason for him to go out and get hurt! He's still better than Jaybo or Gunner.

 

[The Note in MI]

Just because I said JE wasn't a cornerstone player was no reason for him to go out and get hurt! He's still better than Jaybo or Gunner.

Placing blame solely on you sir haha

 

[ezcreepin]

Oh f***, bring in Mikkola! Walman! Anyone but Bouw! Someone hit the panic button!!

 

[stl76]

Just because I said JE wasn't a cornerstone player was no reason for him to go out and get hurt! He's still better than Jaybo or Gunner.

Total bummer about Ed, hope he doesn’t miss too much time. Maybe we can get Walman or Schmaltz some time with the big club now. Could be beneficial in the long run I guess (trying to find a silver lining).

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Total bummer about Ed, hope he doesn’t miss too much time. Maybe we can get Walman or Schmaltz some time with the big club now. Could be beneficial in the long run I guess (trying to find a silver lining).

Schmaltz is hurt. He hasn’t been playing with SA lately. It would be the perfect time though unfortunately.

I assume we’ll just go with

Gunnarsson-Pietrangelo
Bouwmeester-Parayko
Dunn-Bortuzzo

 

[simon IC]

I'd like to see Dunn-Pietrangelo as the 1st pairing. Why not? I think Dunn is ready, and it's a temporary situation anyway.

 

[ezcreepin]

I'd like to see Dunn-Pietrangelo as the 1st pairing. Why not? I think Dunn is ready, and it's a temporary situation anyway.

What are the chances that Walman gets called up AND lights up the league. I dont know of many players that do that (with the trouble hes had), but this would be an ideal time if he was called up.

 

[The Note in MI]

What are the chances that Walman gets called up AND lights up the league. I dont know of many players that do that (with the trouble hes had), but this would be an ideal time if he was called up.

Highly unlikely

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

Personally, if it's really true that Edmundson is out with a broken wrist (definitely looked that way based on where the puck hit him and how he was holding his arm), I'd rather see Walman brought up and given a shot. Bouwmeester still isn't right and he needs to be 100% to be effective at all anymore. This 70 or 80 that he's operating is a detriment.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I too think Eddie is likely gone about a month with a break. I suspect we’ll find out sometime today for sure.

As long as it’s not a super bad break, it shouldn’t be a huge problem as he’d be back well in time for the playoffs but it likely means Bouw, Gunnar and Dunn play every game now.

With Schmaltz hurt I suspect Walman would be the callup but I don’t think they’d insert him right into the lineup over the other 3 unless one of the other 3 get injured or perform poorly enough (and Walman performs well enough in practice) to justify sitting one of them for Walman.

The only other remotely viable option is Butler.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Butler it is.

Eddie RW-evaluated in 6 weeks. Had surgery on his forearm last night.

Ugh.

 

[Blueston]

Butler makes sense. Schmaltz is hurt and Walman is still finding his game. Let Butler sit and see how things play out. Perhaps get Walman up here for a bit but he doesn't need to sit every day. Once JS is healthy can reevaluate.

 

[Oberyn]

I doubt Walman would get into any games if he got called up. Blues are trying to stay in the playoff picture, now is not the time to throw Walman into the lineup to get his feet wet.

 

[MissouriMook]

I doubt Walman would get into any games if he got called up. Blues are trying to stay in the playoff picture, now is not the time to throw Walman into the lineup to get his feet wet.

I doubt Butler does either. This might be an opportunity to send Walman to San Antonio and take over Butler's role there, especially his PP minutes.

 

[The Note in MI]

I doubt Butler does either. This might be an opportunity to send Walman to San Antonio and take over Butler's role their, especially his PP minutes.

Not sure we could do that? San Antonio is pretty thin on D tho

 

[cgf]

Not sure we could do that? San Antonio is pretty thin on D tho

I was gunna say; you didn't have to wait for Butler to get called up for there to be a spot for Walman in SA

*sigh*

 

[David Dennison]

Butler makes sense. Schmaltz is hurt and Walman is still finding his game. Let Butler sit and see how things play out. Perhaps get Walman up here for a bit but he doesn't need to sit every day. Once JS is healthy can reevaluate.

Schmaltz cant catch a break.

 

[The Note in MI]

Kostin is on the 4th line in San Antonio tonight...

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Kostin is on the 4th line in San Antonio tonight...

Not like he was doing much on the 1st line.