All Things AHL Part V

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Robb_K

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Why what?

In my model, each individual player is compared to their self, not to others.

What is the expectation of Player A relative to expectations placed upon Player A?

Think of an individual player as a group. The measurement occurs within the group, not across groups.

About seven or eight years ago, a former moderator of this board, Irish Blues, argued against my assertion that we (fans, management etc) demonstrate an "expectation bias" toward an individual player relative to the round in which they were drafted.

He argued that it doesn't matter after the fact (the draft) and I argued that the round in which a player was drafted does matter in terms of relative expectations of that player, with the acknowledgment that late-round draftees can enjoy a high degree of success (Datsyuk and Zetterberg come to mind).

I just think it would be cool if there was a mechanism by which to measure a player's production relative to their perceived expectations, whether those expectations are valid or not. After all, what expectations are actually realistic?

The entire NHLdom expected Patrik Stefan to be awesome because he was the #1 overall draft pick in his draft year.

Did we actually expect 7th-rounder, Henrik Zetterberg, to be a near ppg player?

No.

Measuring production/success/whatever relative to salary cap hit is pretty cool and is in line with the sentiment of my idea expressed above. Player A's production is being measured relative to his own salary, not Player B's. It is a within-group measurement.

To take that point further, the highly-paid Player A is highly paid because he has produced at a level to warrant and justify his high salary relative to the cap.

If he fails to produce at the higher cap hit (Ville Leino), then we can say that this player has not performed at a level commensurate to his cap hit.

But the player is measured against himself, his cap hit, his skating ability, his shot accuracy, his draft status, his vision, his passing ability etc etc.....

Fun discussion.

Zetterberg was drafted by The Red Wings in The 7th Round because only Detroit was scouting heavily in Europe, and the other NHL teams didn't know much about him, and ALL European players were drafted at least 2-3 rounds lower (if not more) than their talent would warrant, because very few of them were willing or easily able to leave their homelands to play in North America at that time. So, they were risky to have a high round choice used on them. So, using European players' drafted with low-round choices before 2000 makes for poor examples for your point.
 

ChicagoBlues

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Zetterberg was drafted by The Red Wings in The 7th Round because only Detroit was scouting heavily in Europe, and the other NHL teams didn't know much about him, and ALL European players were drafted at least 2-3 rounds lower (if not more) than their talent would warrant, because very few of them were willing or easily able to leave their homelands to play in North America at that time. So, they were risky to have a high round choice used on them. So, using European players' drafted with low-round choices before 2000 makes for poor examples for your point.
How about Joe Pavelski (drafted 2003)?

How about Carl Gunnarsson (drafted 2007 and has logged 503 games)? Pretty good career for a 7-th rounder! Isn't this what we would say?

Surely, Sweden had been heavily scouted by 2007.

If I keep digging, I will find more very good players drafted in the 5-7 round range.

We already know that the likelihood of having an NHL career diminishes greatly in draft rounds 3+.

Jason Demers and Cam Atkinson in 2008.
 
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Robb_K

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How about Joe Pavelski (drafted 2003)?

How about Carl Gunnarsson (drafted 2007 and has logged 503 games)? Pretty good career for a 7-th rounder! Isn't this what we would say?

Surely, Sweden had been heavily scouted by 2007.

If I keep digging, I will find more very good players drafted in the 5-7 round range.

We already know that the likelihood of having an NHL career diminishes greatly in draft rounds 3+.
Gunnarsson dropped several rounds because there was a big risk that Swedes would not want to come to North America. They are at home in Sweden, and have a pretty good level top league, can earn lots of money and live a high quality of life. I work part year in Sweden, my brother lives there. Had I pursued my hockey career, I'd probably have preferred to play in The SEL to playing in The NHL if it meant living mainly in US cities.

Pavelski is a better example, because in his case, there was no risk no tangible risk factor related to continent residence preference. Pavelski, or any Canadian or other American player would choose to play in Europe or Russia over playing in The NHL.
 

STL fan in MN

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Aug 16, 2007
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Yes. He was a 5th Rounder. Hard to believe so many teams passed him for 4 rounds. I wonder what they thought were his shortcomings?

He played in the BCHL his draft year and put up good but not great numbers. He was originally planning on playing college hockey but then joined the WHL his Draft + 1 year. So just a little under the radar and a bit of a late bloomer.
 

PiggySmalls

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Mar 7, 2015
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Yes. He was a 5th Rounder. Hard to believe so many teams passed him for 4 rounds. I wonder what they thought were his shortcomings?

His skating sucked. So bad that Jordie told teams the only way that he would play for them is if Jamie could be on the team. Jamie is a true testament of work ethic and commitment. His story is awesome, love watching him play. He is the Lindros of this era.
 
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joshyhockey26

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He could be flipped again but currently it looks like Andrew Hammond should be sent to the Rampage as a result of the Matt Duchene deal. Curious to see if this effects Husso’s starts at all.
 

MortiestOfMortys

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It would make sense for COL to trade one of Hammond or Bernier to Vegas for one of their dmen, but it's hard to say what will actually happen. Ironically, with Vegas' goalie situation, the one other team that really needs goalie help is the Chicago Wolves.
 

MissouriMook

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It would make sense for COL to trade one of Hammond or Bernier to Vegas for one of their dmen, but it's hard to say what will actually happen. Ironically, with Vegas' goalie situation, the one other team that really needs goalie help is the Chicago Wolves.
I expect that if Vegas doesn’t deal for one of Hammond or Bernier then Husso will be loaned to Chicago and become their #1. Might actually be the best outcome for all.
 

Ranksu

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I thought Husso was the heir apparent as the NHL back-up after Hutton. As soon as next season. Why would they trade him?
I still see that it would be best for Husso play 50gp at AHL before he should jump to NHL I don't see good for to his develope curve to sit in benched B2B to season and then re-evalute 'sheet, how we managed to f up good goaltender prospect.'

Bluesy way to develope prospects.
 
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Zamadoo

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Apr 4, 2013
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After checking the Rampage stats, I decided to come here to make a few comments. Turns out you guys are right on topic. Husso with 4 games and a higher SV%. Schmaltz has 7 points in 10 games and is a +6. Meanwhile Walman is not doing so hot in Chicago. Blais and Kostin each have 6 points (although Kostin only has 1 goal). Barbashev has 2g/2a in 4 games since being sent down to Chicago.
 

Halak Ness Monster

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I thought Husso was the heir apparent as the NHL back-up after Hutton. As soon as next season. Why would they trade him?

I really want Husso to play 50+ games in the AHL next year. Not backup Allen and only play 20-25 games in the NHL.

Poor guy has been jerked around this year and last. It's a shame because he is a really good prospect with an NHL future IMO.

I think he needs to be the everyday starter for the Blues AHL squad next year. Then be a backup for one year. Then we'll evaluate where Husso and Allen are at.
 
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Ranksu

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I really want Husso to play 50+ games in the AHL next year. Not backup Allen and only play 20-25 games in the NHL.

Poor guy has been jerked around this year and last. It's a shame because he is a really good prospect with an NHL future IMO.

I think he needs to be the everyday starter for the Blues AHL squad next year. Then be a backup for one year. Then we'll evaluate where Husso and Allen are at.

Finally someone else talk realistically in this case.
 

PiggySmalls

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Finally someone else talk realistically in this case.

I dont think you will find any Blues fan on here that will disagree with you in terms of Husso being better suited to play 50+ games in the AHL. I just hope he sees last week he is one incident away from being with the big team. This keeps his spirit up.
 

Dbrownss

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I really want Husso to play 50+ games in the AHL next year. Not backup Allen and only play 20-25 games in the NHL.

Poor guy has been jerked around this year and last. It's a shame because he is a really good prospect with an NHL future IMO.

I think he needs to be the everyday starter for the Blues AHL squad next year. Then be a backup for one year. Then we'll evaluate where Husso and Allen are at.
Agreed, plus Hutton has been a Stud...and one hell of a locker room guy. Keep him for awhile
 
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