Rugby: All rugby discussion

[Morozov]

Aussie went good for 40 minutes but that's all they had in the tank, they looked shattered in that second half and got butchered in the process.

Teams still haven't figured this out, you aren't beating the All Blacks kicking penalties. If you want a chance then when you get into prime positions you need to come away with five or seven.

You need to roll the dice and go for the tries, sure you might screw it up, but often if you screw it up you maintain great territory to try to keep pressure on and if you screw it up and lose oh well, you're going to lose kicking penalties anyway because you will not keep up with the All Blacks on the scoreboard. At least if you try to roll the dice you give yourself a chance. Aussie for all the control they had in that first half only came away with 6 points. We nearly removed that in one quick strike at the end of the half but Barrett missed the conversion, but early in the second we scored another try and all that 40 minutes of hard work is now eradicated because they didn't have the points to show for it. They dominated the half and yet all they had to show for it would have been stripped away in the final minute had Barrett made the conversion.

I've said it before but Ireland showed everyone this, and they beat us. But even they then reverted back to the norm the week after, and then lost.

 

[Ivan13]

It's always nice to see cowardice rewarded with an L. Not to mention seeing Cheika lose, few things feel as good. Playing negative footy against the AB is pretty much a death sentence, the Irish as you correctly pointed out didn't resort to having Sexton just kick everything but rather piled on the pressure and made the ABs work. It also helps that they have one of the brightest players in the game in Connor Murray who like Smith runs the team and not Sexton even though everyone probably sees Sexton as the engine that makes everyone go.

 

[Siamese Dream]

With a mention of Connor Murray is probably a good chance to share this relatively new channel I found on YouTube for rugby analysis with a bit of comedy thrown in. It's quite impressive coming from a random scrawny English kid who just needs to slow the videos down a little bit, it's certainly better than listening to Austin Healey on BT Sport anyway.

 

[Ivan13]

Love that kid, coincidently I haven't seen the Murray video, but I did watch the one about Warburton the other day. Would recommend.

He needs to lay off coffee though, or whatever else he is on

 

[Siamese Dream]

Is it just his goal kicking that's holding back Beauden Barrett from surpassing Dan Carter as the best 10 in the history of the game?

 

[Ivan13]

Beaudean bleeping Barrett, dear God lad you're just not fair. If he keeps this up he'll for sure surpass Carter and challenge McCaw for the title of the best rugby player ever (not counting Jonah who wasn't human).

 

[Morozov]

Is it just his goal kicking that's holding back Beauden Barrett from surpassing Dan Carter as the best 10 in the history of the game?

DC was the better tactical kicker/game manager. Stronger physically, and people forget what a running threat DC was in his early years with a great fend

BB undoubtedly the better broken play player. His cover defense is superb also. The speed is obviously electric.

DC is the more complete 10, BB is more of a freak athlete who plays 10,

To me DC is the best Rugby player ever as far as an overall skill set and attributes is concerned.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Danny Cipriani is in very good form at the moment for Gloucester and looking in the mix for the England starting squad, and Eddie Jones has said he is not too bothered about his off the field issues and will let his play do the talking. Uncertainty around the #10 shirt is probably the last thing they need a year before the World Cup, when Eddie Jones will want to get his starting squad cemented after the Autumn tests for the 6 Nations. This was exactly the same issue Stuart Lancaster had in the last world cup and was ultimately England's downfall. IMO the Ford at 10 and Farrell at 12 experiment is over, it worked for a little while but it seems other teams have figured England out now, so all 3 will be going for the #10 shirt, or maybe he tries Cipriani at 10 and Farrell at 12.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Not sure how the Springboks managed to hold on to that one

Another win for the Pumas as well, surprising considering they were easily beaten by Wales' B team and smashed by Scotland in the summer.

 

[Ivan13]

 

[Morozov]

SA played well, as I've mentioned before, if you want to beat the All Blacks you need to push for points and score in fives and sevens which they did. Always happy to see teams be rewarded for doing just that.

At the same time, the All Blacks had a very off night by there standards. Multiple out of character mistakes, that big pass from Jordie that gifted them a try. ALB gifted them another try on an intercept after a poor decision to take the quick tap by Smith, Scott Barrett lineout off the top to nobody when everyone had committed to the drive, multiple times they spilled the ball at important moments when on the attack. Beauden had a horrible night, he isn't the greatest kicker usually but that one was a shocker, and they still only lost by two with multiple chances to take the game right until the final whistle. Good eye opener for the All Blacks just to shake them up a bit, but nothing major to worry about. They're allowed to lose sometimes.

And as good as Scott Barrett looks like he might be, he is no Retallick. There is no other Retallick. Best player in the world, always feel his absence when he isn't there.

Best part is now we have a very juicy game in South Africa.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Rugby hot take of the week:

If they're going to keep dishing out these soft red cards they should change the rules so that you play down a man for 10 minutes the same as yellow card and then you can bring on a replacement for the player who got the red card and go back to 15 men. Kind of similar to a 5+game or match penalty in hockey. This way they can still punish the player but can't completely kill off the game by sending someone off in the first half unless it's the All Blacks, making it pointless to watch the rest of the game in most cases. Maybe they could implement this just as something in-between a yellow card and the current red card, and use the current red card rule for the genuinely bad, deliberate stuff rather than the zero tolerance no discretion type red cards.

Or maybe the players will eventually adapt and it's only going to spoil a lot of games in the short term, as was the case with tip tackles and challenges in the air, who knows.

 

[Elliman]

NZ / Ireland should be a cracker.

 

[Morozov]

A shame Murray is out.

Couple of first choice players out for the All Blacks too though, but Murray is so influential and I want the AB's to play Ireland with him there.

 

[Roughneck II]

NZ / Ireland should be a cracker.

Lived up to the hype. Don't usually expect games with five penalties and only one try to be super exciting, but this would be one of them.

Toner's hit on Retallick set momentum for the first half, O'Mahony's snag saved the last 40. Typically the All Blacks came storming back in the last 20, being able to hold them off shows why this Ireland team is better than any they've had before.

 

[Morozov]

It's weird the amount of ball the All Blacks have kicked away these last two games. That and the drop goals both weeks and just overall departure from the usual gameplan makes me think Hansen has been using this tour as a sort of training/experiment because there entire approach is different from earlier in the year when they ran wild.

 

[I am not exposed]

Huge win for England in Dublin.

Massive statement game.

 

[Morozov]

England win a game and to the surprise of nobody suddenly think they're World Cup favourites again.

The statement from England will come when they can actually consistently win games against good teams again. They were trash last year, I'll need more than one game at the start of the season to be paying any attention.

 

[Siamese Dream]

England win a game and to the surprise of nobody suddenly think they're World Cup favourites again.

The statement from England will come when they can actually consistently win games against good teams again. They were trash last year, I'll need more than one game at the start of the season to be paying any attention.

I don't know, I think England actually have a very good team this year and actually have some semblance of a direction in terms of who they're going to select and where. As a Wales fan this is the first time that I genuinely feel afraid of an England team coming to Cardiff and turning us over with a convincing win like they did to Ireland this weekend.

Of course they're not actually favourites yet but they are close, I think to be up there with the All Blacks (and Ireland in terms of consistency) the only tools they need to add are a more experienced specialist 7, and a 9 who is actually a running threat and has a decent kicking game. If you look at the tools they have got it's quite intimidating, they've got some real nasty bastards in the pack like Itoje, complete bulldozers like the Vunipola brothers and Sinckler. Farrell at 10 a good goal kicker, great leader who can control a game both as 10 and captain, strong defensively. A crash ball 12 whether it's Te'o or Tuilagi, with a playmaker like Slade outside them and you can even slot Daly in at 13 if he's not in the back 3, that guy can smash a penalty over from 60 metres, which is always useful to have.

 

[Morozov]

They won 50% of their games last year and one of those was against Japan. I don't think they're close at all. Show me the ability to consistently beat good teams and then I'll entertain them.

Itoje is actually good. The rest of the big guys you mentioned are just that, big but there isn't all that much beyond that. That's fine against weaker teams.

Just being a crash ball 12 isn't enough. You need a 12 with more to his game than that, and ideally one who can kick as well.

I still don't see the creativity or x factor in their backs and really don't find their forwards all that threatening with the ball either.

They always go further into their shell when it comes to big occasions as well. As I said, I'm going to need much more than one game to suddenly start respecting a team that could only win 50% of games last year. One game isn't a statement for me.

England and their media would do well to just shut the f*** up and come into the tournament as under the radar as possible, try to be the underdogs and embrace that. But they won't, because the English don't do that. They win one game, think they're hot shit and start talking about World Cup aspirations, and they'll flame out as disappointments once again. Surprised the "it's coming home" thing hasn't reignited already.

 

[Ivan13]

Farrell is pretty damn bad defensively. He loses structure, plays undisciplined, abandons the line and pushes too far up quite often etc. He is definitely their weak spot and teams have already exploited that in the past.

Sinckler is key to their play, they do so much through him. If he goes down or has a poor game they are screwed.

I still like Ireland and the AB as two best sides going into the WC, with the advantage obviously being on the ABs side.

 

[Siamese Dream]

From a Wales perspective I still can't wrap my head around why they insist on starting Anscombe at 10, especially with Halfpenny not there to kick

 

[Siamese Dream]

 

[Morozov]

If they continue through the Six Nations like these last two weeks, then I'll start paying them a bit more attention for the WC.

 

[Siamese Dream]

France are a shambles but usually with this matchup no matter the difference in quality on paper, the other team can always turn up, grind away and slow the game down, culminating in easily the most boring fixture almost every year. England absolutely embarrassed them this time though.