All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread Part VIII - The Quest for a 3G

[Big Daddy Cane]

May be moving into the managing expectations stage or the gotcha..can't quite tell.

Posturing. The prices 13 days out are still probably sky high. Reality for sellers sets in about a week out, historically.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

As long as Jarvis is cold and Martinook is playing on the second line, we have a hole in our forward lineup. I agree with @TheRillestPaulFenton that a left wing would be a priority along with a defenseman or in place of a defenseman. Unfortunately, unless someone goes, I can't see how we do both with the cap issues we have right now.

This kind of trade would kill two birds with one stone. All that you would need is a 3rd team like Buffalo to take a small pick in exchange for a double-retain on CDH.

Carolina-Chicago Trade - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[AD Skinner]

Didn't Waddell say pretty much the same thing the year they added vatanen skjei and trocheck? I know injuries were a big part of forcing his hand there but I don't necessarily believe he is always being honest about these things when asked

 

[Svechhammer]

This kind of trade would kill two birds with one stone. All that you would need is a 3rd team like Buffalo to take a small pick in exchange for a double-retain on CDH.

Carolina-Chicago Trade - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Brendan Smith, Lorentz, Rees, a 2023 1st and a 2022 3rd for a pending RFA and a pending UFA who absolutely will not resign with us after how we treated him last time?

lol no

 

[A Star is Burns]

We may or may not do anything, but there isn't much reason for Waddell to telegraph anything. I think they'll make a depth move or two at the very least.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Brendan Smith, Lorentz, Rees, a 2023 1st and a 2022 3rd for a pending RFA and a pending UFA who absolutely will not resign with us after how we treated him last time?

lol no

A pending RFA that the Canes can likely re-sign for much cheaper than Nino for at least a couple of seasons? I could see it. CDH is the only true rental here, and honestly, it would be a really cool redemption story for both sides.

 

[tarheelhockey]

This kind of trade would kill two birds with one stone. All that you would need is a 3rd team like Buffalo to take a small pick in exchange for a double-retain on CDH.

Carolina-Chicago Trade - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

So after adding Buffalo, that's three draft picks, a good prospect, and two roster players... pretty steep cost for what is basically a depth upgrade.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

So after adding Buffalo, that's three draft picks, a good prospect, and two roster players... pretty steep cost for what is basically a depth upgrade.

Kubalik has the potential of being more than a depth upgrade for at least a couple more seasons after this one. The slightly elevated cost here is mainly about him, who IMO is a buy-low candidate.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I doubt I make that move either. Perhaps Kubalik explodes again on a better team, or perhaps he continues his downward trend in production. If he's not cheaper than that, I'd probably look elsewhere. I'd maybe consider a mid-pick for CDH as depth, but I'd probably look for other options first.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Kubalik has the potential of being more than a depth upgrade. The increased cost here is mainly about him, who IMO is a buy-low candidate.

I'm interested in Kubalik if he really can be signed as a lower-cost Nino alternative. Just don't know about the price on that trade. If we break it down as two deals, I guess it's Smith + 3rd for CDH and Lorentz + Rees + 1st for Kubalik? Plus a pick to [insert team] to make it work financially?

Smith + 3rd for CDH would make some sense to me, in that CDH can probably challenge Cole for playing time and would be better suited against certain opponents. Lorentz + Rees + 1st + another pick is really sacrificing organizational depth. Kubalik is probably the best player in the trade so it's not completely off-putting. But man, we'd be running out of expendable assets at that point.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I'm interested in Kubalik if he really can be signed as a lower-cost Nino alternative. Just don't know about the price on that trade. If we break it down as two deals, I guess it's Smith + 3rd for CDH and Lorentz + Rees + 1st for Kubalik? Plus a pick to [insert team] to make it work financially?

Smith + 3rd for CDH would make some sense to me, in that CDH can probably challenge Cole for playing time and would be better suited against certain opponents. Lorentz + Rees + 1st + another pick is really sacrificing organizational depth. Kubalik is probably the best player in the trade so it's not completely off-putting. But man, we'd be running out of expendable assets at that point.

Carolina has one of the deepest farms in the entire league, at least in terms of sheer quantity (and quality when compared to other contending outfits). They're one of the select few contending teams that can make a trade like this and simultaneously not mortgage the future.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

This kind of trade would kill two birds with one stone. All that you would need is a 3rd team like Buffalo to take a small pick in exchange for a double-retain on CDH.

Carolina-Chicago Trade - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Just when you think you know everything… I would’ve bet $10,000 that this trade included Hagel.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Just when you think you know everything… I would’ve bet $10,000 that this trade included Hagel.

I intentionally did not talk about Hagel here . Hagel will be more coveted, and of course would be my target #1, but it's also way more likely that Chicago views him as mostly untouchable (emphasis on the mostly).

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Kubalik is having an underwhelming year statistically and offers no cost certainty to go with his control (expiring RFA). He's the anti-Blake Coleman in that regard, what I assume the idea is modeled after. A valuation north of Sam Bennett would be a surprise.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Kubalik is having an underwhelming year statistically and offers no cost certainty to go with his control (expiring RFA). He's the anti-Blake Coleman in that regard, what I assume the idea is modeled after. A valuation north of Sam Bennett would be a surprise.

Two seconds (what Sam Bennett returned) is similar to the very-late 1st/3rd value that I placed on Kubalik. I would also argue that the Kubalik situation is, at least a little bit, a form of cost-control, because it's relatively obvious that he's not going to make as much as Nino's current cap hit in the next couple of seasons.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Carolina has one of the deepest farms in the entire league, at least in terms of sheer quantity (and quality when compared to other contending outfits). They're one of the select few contending teams that can make a trade like this and simultaneously not mortgage the future.

That's true, but we're also entering the phase of development where we stop having blue-chip prospects. Just taking the Athletic's list as a point of reference (since it had us #2 and validates the strength of our system), our top 4 prospects by their measures are already on the NHL roster. #5 is Bokk, who appears to have busted.

So on that list, our top 2 prospects are Suzuki and Rees, who is to be traded in this proposal. After that we're into the Gunler, Robidas, Morrow tier of guys who are long shots to stick as regular NHL'ers (for whatever reason they have Drury #11, I think we all agree that he's a high-floor low-ceiling type who's likely to make the roster soon) and then into the guys who are long shots to do anything. I actually really like the Canes' approach to creating a lot of volume, so hopefully one or more of those guys turns into a really good contributor... but right now it's hard to see where that's going to come from. It feels more like we have 3-4 solid prospects (Drury, Suzuki, Rees, maybe Kochetkov) and a bunch of raffle tickets, so dealing someone out of the top tier is no small sacrifice.

In terms of draft picks, we didn't have a 2021 1st and have already dealt our 2022 1st. This deal would also have us trading our 2023 1st, and our 2022 3rd, and an unknown pick for retention. It just feels like this would be a break from the philosophy of stockpiling assets, and more like something we would do at the very end of our competitive window when tomorrow doesn't matter any more. It's a big bite to take out of our future for the sake of Kubalik... it only works if he really steps it up and also signs a team-friendly deal, and I don't know the player well enough to know if either of those things is likely?

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

That's true, but we're also entering the phase of development where we stop having blue-chip prospects. Just taking the Athletic's list as a point of reference (since it had us #2 and validates the strength of our system), our top 4 prospects by their measures are already on the NHL roster. #5 is Bokk, who appears to have busted.

So on that list, our top 2 prospects are Suzuki and Rees, who is to be traded in this proposal. After that we're into the Gunler, Robidas, Morrow tier of guys who are long shots to stick as regular NHL'ers (for whatever reason they have Drury #11, I think we all agree that he's a high-floor low-ceiling type who's likely to make the roster soon) and then into the guys who are long shots to do anything. I actually really like the Canes' approach to creating a lot of volume, so hopefully one or more of those guys turns into a really good contributor... but right now it's hard to see where that's going to come from. It feels more like we have 3-4 solid prospects (Drury, Suzuki, Rees, maybe Kochetkov) and a bunch of raffle tickets, so dealing someone out of the top tier is no small sacrifice.

In terms of draft picks, we didn't have a 2021 1st and have already dealt our 2022 1st. This deal would also have us trading our 2023 1st, and our 2022 3rd, and an unknown pick for retention. It just feels like this would be a break from the philosophy of stockpiling assets, and more like something we would do at the very end of our competitive window when tomorrow doesn't matter any more. It's a big bite to take out of our future for the sake of Kubalik... it only works if he really steps it up and also signs a team-friendly deal, and I don't know the player well enough to know if either of those things is likely?

TBF, Bokk kind of "self-busted" by choosing to go back to Europe. I know that's a funny way to put it, but maybe he needs to be back on comfortable European soil to get his confidence back. Still, though, I agree with what you're saying. I just think that the Canes have more room to trade assets for good players in this particular year because they drafted 13 times last draft and there's multiple opportunities for guys that have already been drafted to elevate their values in the coming seasons.

 

[To Be Determined]

i know the old guard is long gone, but i still find myself thinking things like, yeah, probably rees and a second for marc staal.

in a dark timeline where pk never sold, i'm pretty sure the final staal would be on his way to quebec city in the next week to play with jordan and a signed this past offseason eric.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

Waddell not looking to change Hurricanes before NHL Trade Deadline

 

[mikeyfan]

The wings just waived DeKeyser, would picking him up be better on the 3rd pairing than what we have now? It wouldn’t cost a pick or player

 

[A Star is Burns]

The wings just waived DeKeyser, would picking him up be better on the 3rd pairing than what we have now? It wouldn’t cost a pick or player

I'd much rather have what we have now/make no moves. DeKeyser is expensive and bad.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Dreger on Insider Trading listed us among 7-8 teams still heavily interested in Chychrun. Says the price is still high and it will likely come down to deadline day on whether he's traded or not by the deadline.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Chychrun or bust for us

 

[NotOpie]

I agree, he’s likely to want a bridge deal over a deal 5 years or more, but if they could get him at $6M x 8, I hope they would.

To me the perfect deal for Necas is either a 1 year deal (yes, you gamble on a break-out) or a 3 year deal (my preference)....and I don't think he'd get much more than $4 to $4.25 million per year. A two year deal, as others have said, gets us to the Aho, Turbo, Pesce, Skjei, and now Jarvis year. That scares me.

Oh, fully agreed. There's very little chance that trading Necas ends well for us in the long term. Unless you get a guaranteed perennial all star elite player, there's a slim chance we'll end up with the best player in the deal, and if you're trading Necas, you absolutely need to end up with the best player in the deal.

I'd say we'd absolutely need to end up with the best player for the next 3 years or so.....if one believes in windows.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Alright folks, time to fess up if you're a little freak who's watched more than 1 Coyotes game this year.

Well, I was think there may be people in 1 of 3 categories.

1) Posters like Blueline Bomber who has to watch games of many different teams as part of his job.
2) People that are interested in acquiring Chychrun so they went out to watch him (much like people watch games of upcoming draftees).
3) Gluttons for punishment.