All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread Part VII - The Steals Weren't There

[tarheelhockey]

I feel like the borg have to have slavin on the hurricane for life list with Aho and Brind'Amour

I could easily see Aho finishing his career elsewhere. Svech too. Don't get me wrong, they should be here through the entirety of our window of contention. But when they're 30, 32, 34 they will get to a point where the points stop coming and the team isn't winning any more. At that point you start thinking, maybe this guy's name and remaining ability will get us a 1st+ at the deadline. Maybe we don't invest the money and opportunity-cost to keep him here forever, knowing we have another core coming in. That's where you end up trading an Eric Staal and people are broadly OK with it, under the circumstances.

Slavin is the one I can't see them ever moving, notwithstanding something truly heartbreaking like a major injury/decline. There's no reason he shouldn't still be a first-pairing guy in his mid 30s, maybe beyond. He's a tone-setter for the entire organization, in the same way Jordan Staal has been the past few years. He'll never get paid crazy money because of his lack of points, which will translate to lack of Norris votes and attendant hype. In all likelihood he's the next guy up for the C if he wants it. You really cannot replace a guy like that with the next shiny new draft pick. I really think he's the leading candidate to be the first guy to wear a Canes jersey for 1000 games.

 

[Borsig]

I mean given that past events are still likely to keep TDA's contract value suppressed, the smart decision is to try and re-sign him rather than go with just about anyone else who might be available.

I said this last summer.
TDA wants to be in a market where he feels "welcome". That's likely Nashville, Carolina and or Florida. He has said he wants to play for RBA.
He's putting up numbers.
He likes hearing his name chanted. He's that kind of guy.

We are stupid if we don't see that he is a good fit here. Pay the man. What was it they were offering Hamilton again? TDA can probably easily be had for 5-6 AAV. I'll take this performance for that all day long.

 

[Svechhammer]

I could easily see Aho finishing his career elsewhere. Svech too. Don't get me wrong, they should be here through the entirety of our window of contention. But when they're 30, 32, 34 they will get to a point where the points stop coming and the team isn't winning any more. At that point you start thinking, maybe this guy's name and remaining ability will get us a 1st+ at the deadline. Maybe we don't invest the money and opportunity-cost to keep him here forever, knowing we have another core coming in. That's where you end up trading an Eric Staal and people are broadly OK with it, under the circumstances.

Slavin is the one I can't see them ever moving, notwithstanding something truly heartbreaking like a major injury/decline. There's no reason he shouldn't still be a first-pairing guy in his mid 30s, maybe beyond. He's a tone-setter for the entire organization, in the same way Jordan Staal has been the past few years. He'll never get paid crazy money because of his lack of points, which will translate to lack of Norris votes and attendant hype. In all likelihood he's the next guy up for the C if he wants it. You really cannot replace a guy like that with the next shiny new draft pick. I really think he's the leading candidate to be the first guy to wear a Canes jersey for 1000 games.

Hmmm ok you bring up a good point. When I say a guy is a 'Cane for life' I think he's going to be an intricate thread in the fabric of the Canes culture going forward, and even if he does finish his career elsewhere, he'll always be primarily tied here. Put it this way, I'd consider someone like Cam Ward a Cane for life even though he finished out his career in Chicago. Hell, I'd say Tom Brady is a Patriot for life even though he is in Tampa now and won the Super Bowl with them.

In that vein is why I would say that Aho and Svech are probably Canes for life. They may have 1 or 2 geriatric seasons toward the end where they finish out their careers elsewhere, but they'll always be Canes. The Borg won't let them go unless there really isn't an option to keep them around.

As for Slavin, fully agreed. He's going to anchor our defense until the day he retires. Aho probably gets the C next, but I wouldn't be shocked if Slavin ends up with it. He plays the kind of game that can be effective into his late 30s, and who knows, by the time he's there we might have guys routinely playing into their 40s.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Put it this way, I'd consider someone like Cam Ward a Cane for life even though he finished out his career in Chicago.

Not sure what this means. I don't remember Cam Ward playing in Chicago.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Hmmm ok you bring up a good point. When I say a guy is a 'Cane for life' I think he's going to be an intricate thread in the fabric of the Canes culture going forward, and even if he does finish his career elsewhere, he'll always be primarily tied here. Put it this way, I'd consider someone like Cam Ward a Cane for life even though he finished out his career in Chicago. Hell, I'd say Tom Brady is a Patriot for life even though he is in Tampa now and won the Super Bowl with them.

In that vein is why I would say that Aho and Svech are probably Canes for life. They may have 1 or 2 geriatric seasons toward the end where they finish out their careers elsewhere, but they'll always be Canes. The Borg won't let them go unless there really isn't an option to keep them around.

As for Slavin, fully agreed. He's going to anchor our defense until the day he retires. Aho probably gets the C next, but I wouldn't be shocked if Slavin ends up with it. He plays the kind of game that can be effective into his late 30s, and who knows, by the time he's there we might have guys routinely playing into their 40s.

Something that makes me unsure about Aho, is whether he would get a bit cranky about the team falling out of contention again. Most NHL players are very competitive people and would prefer to play on a winner, but Aho strikes me as being very competitive to the point that I think he would actually struggle to exist in a declining atmosphere. I'm sure he likes it here and has no issue with the organization itself, but if (when) we come to the point of obviously entering a rebuild I could see him wanting out.

 

[Svechhammer]

Not sure what this means. I don't remember Cam Ward playing in Chicago.

Neither do the Blackhawks. Well, to be fair, they've apparently forgotten a lot of what has happened in that organization over the past 10 years or so.....

 

[tarheelhockey]

Neither do the Blackhawks. Well, to be fair, they've apparently forgotten a lot of what has happened in that organization over the past 10 years or so.....

 

[Borsig]

Slavin plays a DFD game, and a positional one vs a super hardcore physical one. He's rarely hurt, not injury prone, and quietly very conditioned. He's conservative player.

He can easily go to late 30's or even 40 given no injuries.

 

[AD Skinner]

Yeah. I know this is a rabbit hole but I feel like the consensus is that Aho will wear the C next and while I wouldn't have any issue with that, if I were in charge I'd give it to Slavin and not think twice

 

[chaz4hockey]

Slavin plays a DFD game, and a positional one vs a super hardcore physical one. He's rarely hurt, not injury prone, and quietly very conditioned. He's conservative player.

He can easily go to late 30's or even 40 given no injuries.

If only he was 6’9” we could have him for decades.

he does plays game dependent on speed though so as he ages that will decline.

 

[mikeyfan]

Saw this on Cap Friendly trade proposal machine and wanted your thoughts. My thoughts is it wasn’t a bad offer
To Arizona: Brady Skjei, Scott Morrow, and Canes 2023 1st

To Carolina: Jacob Chychrun

 

[WreckingCrew]

If only he was 6’9” we could have him for decades.

he does plays game dependent on speed though so as he ages that will decline.

I thought Raleigh had plenty of that to go around

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Something that makes me unsure about Aho, is whether he would get a bit cranky about the team falling out of contention again. Most NHL players are very competitive people and would prefer to play on a winner, but Aho strikes me as being very competitive to the point that I think he would actually struggle to exist in a declining atmosphere. I'm sure he likes it here and has no issue with the organization itself, but if (when) we come to the point of obviously entering a rebuild I could see him wanting out.

I see no reason why we can't have an extended run of sustained success during Aho's career like the Bruins, Red Wings, Blackhawks, Penguins, Capitals, Lightning, etc. have had in the past 20+ years or so. We have the core players in place along with an owner who really seems to "get it" when it comes to building a winning organization. No I'm not saying we'll have multiple Cups, there's a lot that goes into winning the cup in any given year and we'll need at least some luck here to even get 1 in the coming years. But with the core pieces we have in place, the prospect pool, our front office/coaching and ownership, etc. I think we can be one of these teams that makes the playoffs pretty much every year for 1-2 decades. Why would Aho leave that as long as we make him a reasonable offer on a long term deal?

I could theoretically see the team not valuing Aho as much as we think they should, and I think it would be a huge mistake but in theory Aho isn't really the perfect fit for Rod and if he is demanding like $11M/yr+ maybe they let him go. I doubt it though as he's the face of the franchise right now and getting better but I don't see Aho jumping ship due to competitive reasons.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Saw this on Cap Friendly trade proposal machine and wanted your thoughts. My thoughts is it wasn’t a bad offer
To Arizona: Brady Skjei, Scott Morrow, and Canes 2023 1st

To Carolina: Jacob Chychrun

I think going from Skjei to Chychrun is much closer to a lateral move than people think and I wouldn't do this trade. Even if it's a slight upgrade it's not nearly enough of one to move the needle and give up our best RHD prospect (could be extremely important for our cap to have him in a few years). I think if we're seriously looking at Chychrun it's to upgrade the D significantly by adding to the current core pieces (which Skjei is right now), not just for a slight upgrade replacing one of them.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Yeah. I know this is a rabbit hole but I feel like the consensus is that Aho will wear the C next and while I wouldn't have any issue with that, if I were in charge I'd give it to Slavin and not think twice

Can't go wrong either way but I like Slavin with the A, he's more of a quiet leader glue piece. I'd like our next C to be a fiery competitor and Aho fits the bill there.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I think going from Skjei to Chychrun is much closer to a lateral move than people think and I wouldn't do this trade. Even if it's a slight upgrade it's not nearly enough of one to move the needle and give up our best RHD prospect (could be extremely important for our cap to have him in a few years). I think if we're seriously looking at Chychrun it's to upgrade the D significantly by adding to the current core pieces (which Skjei is right now), not just for a slight upgrade replacing one of them.

His -31 is kinda concerning too when the next worst on his team is -13

 

[bleedgreen]

I think going from Skjei to Chychrun is much closer to a lateral move than people think and I wouldn't do this trade. Even if it's a slight upgrade it's not nearly enough of one to move the needle and give up our best RHD prospect (could be extremely important for our cap to have him in a few years). I think if we're seriously looking at Chychrun it's to upgrade the D significantly by adding to the current core pieces (which Skjei is right now), not just for a slight upgrade replacing one of them.

I think he’s more than a slight upgrade in offensive ceiling and that team set itself on fire this off season. I think nothing of his plus minus this year. If you can get Chychrun it’s an obvious choice. The player and the contract are exactly what we look for. We need another guy at this level. People get hurt all the time. Having Skjei play on the third pair is a luxury we’ll find a way to survive with. Maybe we swap someone out for a righty moving forward if Tony doesn’t work out.

 

[mikeyfan]

I think going from Skjei to Chychrun is much closer to a lateral move than people think and I wouldn't do this trade. Even if it's a slight upgrade it's not nearly enough of one to move the needle and give up our best RHD prospect (could be extremely important for our cap to have him in a few years). I think if we're seriously looking at Chychrun it's to upgrade the D significantly by adding to the current core pieces (which Skjei is right now), not just for a slight upgrade replacing one of them.

And while you may be right as far as the upgrade I also looked at having Chychrun for 3 years at 4.6 million vs Skjei at 2 years at 5.25 million. To me that was the persuader.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I think he’s more than a slight upgrade in offensive ceiling and that team set itself on fire this off season. I think nothing of his plus minus this year. If you can get Chychrun it’s an obvious choice. The player and the contract are exactly what we look for. We need another guy at this level. People get hurt all the time. Having Skjei play on the third pair is a luxury we’ll find a way to survive with. Maybe we swap someone out for a righty moving forward if Tony doesn’t work out.

It's a tradeoff, yes he's much better offensively but I think he's quite a bit of a drop off defensively. Plus his offense would have to be underutilized here with TDA holding down PP1. Skjei has been pretty under the radar this year but he's been holding down the fort defensively on that 2nd pair with Pesce struggling a bit. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to add Chychrun. But not at the expense of Skjei and Morrow plus a 1st. I just don't see the point in trading current core pieces for a slight upgrade, if we go for him we should be adding him to our roster not just swapping him out for someone like Skjei. So it'd have to be picks/prospects for me to like it. Necas, Jarvis off the table and I'd strongly prefer to hold onto Morrow but if we could get Chychrun for Morrow + other picks/prospects I would consider it. I really doubt we can pull it off though, other teams will offer more.

And while you may be right as far as the upgrade I also looked at having Chychrun for 3 years at 4.6 million vs Skjei at 2 years at 5.25 million. To me that was the persuader.

Fair point. Still not enough of a benefit in my opinion to give up Skjei and Morrow. Skjei and a 1st and like Bokk or something? Maybe but still wouldn't love it, I'm really high on Skjei admittedly.

 

[mikeyfan]

Can't go wrong either way but I like Slavin with the A, he's more of a quiet leader glue piece. I'd like our next C to be a fiery competitor and Aho fits the bill there.

Is there anyway we will make this happen next season? Doesn’t matter to me who wears the “C” but it would mean Staal would be replaced by Koko.

 

[Primetime8]

Slavin plays a DFD game, and a positional one vs a super hardcore physical one. He's rarely hurt, not injury prone, and quietly very conditioned. He's conservative player.

He can easily go to late 30's or even 40 given no injuries.

Nicklas Lidstrom had a similar style of play and was still elite up until he retired at 41 years old.

 

[Borsig]

Nicklas Lidstrom had a similar style of play and was still elite up until he retired at 41 years old.

I was going to make the comparison, LITERALLY to Lidstrom, except Salvin I don't think will ever be a 50 point per season guy like Lidstrom was. Their positional style is probably similar?

 

[htdoc]

There was an ease that Lidstrom covered the d zone that is an awful huge compliment to Slavin to be compared to... not sure Slavin is anywhere near as smooth or effortless looking and I am a huuuuuuge Slavin fan... Lidstrom could be physical but it neve looked like he was exerting himself that much. He could cover ice so effortlessly in his prime that you wondered how the heck he got to point b from point a when it looked like he barely took a step/stride... Lidstrom also has a better shot from the point than Slavin..

A lot of what Slavin does with his stick to strip a puck or get in a lane or tip a puck away harmlessly is reminiscent of Lidstrom's coverage...

Not sure Slavin even if he was being completely honest with you and not being as unassuming as he often is would really say he is quite on Lidstroms level... Slavin is world class and our MVP and the biggest reason our D is as good as it is... but comparisons are hard and this one, while sort of making sense from some stylistic aspects isn't quite a fair one.... yet....

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Lidstrom could be physical but it neve looked like he was exerting himself that much. He could cover ice so effortlessly in his prime that you wondered how the heck he got to point b from point a when it looked like he barely took a step/stride...

I mean, you saw Slavin ether that guy when he lost his stick, right?

Won't deny that Lidstrom had better offensive upside, but defensively, I think Slavin is absolutely on that level. As in, the best defensive defensemen that some teammates and opponents have ever seen, by their own admission.

 

[Svechhammer]

Slavin makes some really, really difficult things look easy. To the extent that you almost take for granted that the cross ice pass is just not going to happen when he's on the ice, and if you are 1 on 1 with him, you might as well pull back and wait for help because you will not win that battle. And on top of that, he's beginning to show a willingness to throw his weight around a little and lay some guys out rather than just going for the poke check.

If ever there was a modern equivalent of Lidstrom, its him. Maybe the offense game isn't quite there, but it is coming around quickly. He's absolutely a guy you would trust to play 30 mins a night during a playoff run knowing that he can not only handle the workload but also dominate play when he's out there. The fact that he's not in the Norris conversation every year is, quite frankly, an indictment on how ridiculous that award has become, because there are few who swing a game in their own team's favor from the blue line more than Slavin.