Rumor: ALL PURPOSE JT MILLER THREAD - New Update - (Post #1123)

[Canucks LB]

This thread is for ALL JT MILLER POSTS/NEW THREADS for the current time period.

PLEASE POST ALL RUMORS, VALUES, TRADES, EVERYTHING JT MILLER in this thread.

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[Buresflyingelbow]

Pierre LeBrun of The Athletic reports teams are calling Vancouver Canucks GM Patrik Allvin about a J.T. Miller trade with the Rangers being the most interested of those teams.

LeBrun feels a Miller trade could happen as early as this coming week if the right trade package comes up.

Looks like the Canucks are waiting until there are no HIGH END FA Forwards on the market, and hope a team gets desperate.

Really risky move, But no choice now honestly. Let's see if patience pays off.

If that report is correct that makes me happy as it’s the type of players we should be targeting in a Miller return. Hopefully the Rangers cave and if they do I see it being Lafrenier as the piece that comes here.

 

[benedictTavares]

The only sentiment I don’t agree with in this thread is the TDL option. I think van will either be in the playoffs or close by the TDL. How do you trade him in that scenario?

 

[Canucks LB]

The only sentiment I don’t agree with in this thread is the TDL option. I think van will either be in the playoffs or close by the TDL. How do you trade him in that scenario?

You don’t, that’s why the deadline is this off-season, or it’s going to be an absolute disaster, they know trust me, it’s all a big poker game

 

[elitepete]

JT is without question, the teams best, and most valuable player. It isn't debatable.

The fact that you don’t even think it’s debatable is ridiculous. Canucks have a guy named Thatcher Demko. Much more valuable to the team that Miller and plays a much bigger role in winning.

 

[Canuck86]

I have always been of the thought if we trade JT Miller its not about quantity coming back like 3-4 1st round picks. Its trying to fill a major need of a RHD who can play with Hughes for a few years at least, if we can get a young C back as well in the package that is great.

Canucks don't need a winger coming back in the deal, a RHD and a C would be ideal. 2 good pieces that can help the Canucks while hopefully getting younger

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

If that report is correct that makes me happy as it’s the type of players we should be targeting in a Miller return. Hopefully the Rangers cave and if they do I see it being Lafrenier as the piece that comes here.

Ok so can we as a fanbase move past opinions like this?

We aren't getting a player like that for one year of Miller, I understand that the sentiment is that Laf is somehow a bust now, but no team gives up a player they just drafted 1st OA for one year of a player they can't afford long term. It's illogical.

 

[Tempo]

There is no doubt in my mind the Nucks overplayed their hand and has already missed the boat on best return for JT Miller.

 

[Taluss]

If Drury didn’t give up Schneider for JT at the TDL I’m guessing he won’t now. Hopefully not at least.

 

[AHLdepth]

If Drury didn’t give up Schneider for JT at the TDL I’m guessing he won’t now. Hopefully not at least.

It's tricky though, I'm sure most Rangers fans would admit that this season was supposed to be "get in and see what happens/happy with whatever" but lo and behold you make the conference finals and compete really well with the juggernaut Lightning.

At the deadline it's easy to see how you can pass, but now that you have proof of concept how much more does it weigh in you that you could add a legit top line player that very arguably tips the scales of a series.

 

[settinguptheplay]

If Drury didn’t give up Schneider for JT at the TDL I’m guessing he won’t now. Hopefully not at least.

Likely the case but consider this. The Rangers were eliminated not because of their defense but because of their lack of offense. Schneider is stuck behind Fox and Trouba playing 10 minutes. Miller could be playing multiple roles at 20+ minutes a night. Miller helps you win today. Schneider barely moves the needle. Many of the Rangers top players are nearing the end of their prime years. Wait too long to make a big move and that window might close.

That said I generally agree that Schneider is too big a price to pay for what would likely be 1 year of Miller.

 

[irishlaxburger2]

Likely the case but consider this. The Rangers were eliminated not because of their defense but because of their lack of offense. Schneider is stuck behind Fox and Trouba playing 10 minutes. Miller could be playing multiple roles at 20+ minutes a night. Miller helps you win today. Schneider barely moves the needle. Many of the Rangers top players are nearing the end of their prime years. Wait too long to make a big move and that window might close.

That said I generally agree that Schneider is too big a price to pay for what would likely be 1 year of Miller.

The Rangers had statistically the worst defense in the entire playoffs. Igor just hid most of their issues.

Also, it’s highly, highly unlikely the Rangers move Lafreniere for Miller. Kakko? Sure.

 

[Peen]

I don't really get why the Rangers want to trade for JT. It really isn't what they need. They had the right approach at the TDL.

That being said, I do think they should look for a younger/cost controlled option who they won't need to re-sign, and I think the fanbase should be more willing to part with certain assets.

You can only pay so many players. The longer you hold, the potential aspect diminishes of a players value when they're limited by a lesser role or are just simply not actually that good. Canucks made the same mistake, albeit to a lesser degree in terms of value of assets ~12 years ago. Should have moved Cory Schneider, their picks, young "potential" to grab another asset or two for those few years at the top.

Maybe their best option is to just move Trouba so it elevates Schneider - I'm not really sure. You have a significant diminishing value of returns when you have a premium asset and big money tied up into spots behind Fox with where Trouba/Schneider are on the roster.

I think if the Flames lose Gaudreau here, the first call Drury should be making is to Calgary for Lindholm with two years left at 4.8, and then you offer them the motherload (Schneider, young roster forward, pick, whatever). Much more defensively responsible player than Miller, and you get an additional year of contract.

We'll see how things shake lose over the next week in free agency.

That being said, the Lundqvist + Chytil + 30th overall pick was always a stupid offer that the Canucks could replicate at the TDL in 2023. I think you obviously run the risk of injury, or bad mood JT returns, but I would personally take that risk because that offer sucks. Lundqvist is completely blocked and had meh stats in his d+4, and chytil has been the same producer for years. It's so bad.

 

[Love]

I don't really get why the Rangers want to trade for JT. It really isn't what they need. They had the right approach at the TDL.

They might not need Miller specifically but they’re not winning the cup with one top 6 centre. Whether it’s Miller, Copp, Kadri, Malkin, etc the point remains that they know they won’t get anywhere unless they pick up a guy like that.

 

[settinguptheplay]

I don't really get why the Rangers want to trade for JT. It really isn't what they need. They had the right approach at the TDL.

That being said, I do think they should look for a younger/cost controlled option who they won't need to re-sign, and I think the fanbase should be more willing to part with certain assets.

And this is why Tampa Bay wins Cups. Because they don't have a long term approach. They pay the price required to get over the top. They are willing to sacrifice to win now. Teams like the Rangers will generally not get over the hump if they take too cautious of an approach.

Do you think having Schneider wilt on the vine playing 3rd pairing minutes is the key to winning? The Rangers don't need more cost controlled assets to win today. They need impact players and Miller is an impact player. Would you rather your team reaches the Conference finals 5 years in a row or win a Cup and have mixed results otherwise. For me I take that Cup every time.

 

[Peen]

They might not need Miller specifically but they’re not winning the cup with one top 6 centre. Whether it’s Miller, Copp, Kadri, Malkin, etc the point remains that they know they won’t get anywhere unless they pick up a guy like that.

Yeah, but those players you mentioned are all completely different. Malkin plays 40 games a year and shouldn't be prime matchup. Miller is absolutely not good enough to play center matchup minutes - could probably do it with an elite defensive C while he's back at LW but even then, IDK. Kadri is old and wants term.

I get why Miller might end up being the most attractive option and that it's possible they (or other teams) may circle back, but the fit isn't good. I really do wonder how many evaluators in the industry see Miller's best position as LW and they don't want to pay a premium because they know Miller wants to be paid like a C and that the Canucks want a package indicative of trading a C.

And this is why Tampa Bay wins Cups. Because they don't have a long term approach. They pay the price required to get over the top. They are willing to sacrifice to win now. Teams like the Rangers will generally not get over the hump if they take too cautious of an approach.

Do you think having Schneider wilt on the vine playing 3rd pairing minutes is the key to winning? The Rangers don't need more cost controlled assets to win today. They need impact players and Miller is an impact player. Would you rather your team reaches the Conference finals 5 years in a row or win a Cup and have mixed results otherwise. For me I take that Cup every time.

I don't think Miller is the impact player that they need. You need matchup capable centers and Miller isn't that. He isn't defensively responsible enough. He's a difference maker, instant plug and play onto your best scoring line and top PP and is good for PPG+, but you have to factor in that the industry may not view his best position as C, he has a bad history of being whiney, and that he is going to likely sign a ~70MM/8y contract within the next twelve months. It's tough. There's a lot of context. I don't think it is as easy as "impact 100 point fwd" for some teams.

 

[settinguptheplay]

The Rangers were up 2 games to zero and then proceeded to score 5 goals over the next 4 games. A defense first Center does not help as much as a PPG multi purpose forward. As I said in my previous reply. You worry about this year and winning the Cup. If you are always looking too far ahead you will soon find your window closed and caught up in the cycle of mediocrity. Go big or go home.

TB blew up their cap every year. Forced to trade off good assets. Yet kept winning. Who's model do you think works best? Tampa's to hell with the Cap model that just won a few Cups or the Ranger's lets save our assets and fall short method. Kreider, Panarin and Zib are all basically in their 30's. How much longer do you think the Rangers window will be open?

 

[Love]

Yeah, but those players you mentioned are all completely different. Malkin plays 40 games a year and shouldn't be prime matchup. Miller is absolutely not good enough to play center matchup minutes - could probably do it with an elite defensive C while he's back at LW but even then, IDK. Kadri is old and wants term.

Haha I knew somebody would get into the specifics of those players. It’s not the point. The point is nobody wins the cup with one top 6 centre.

Also the bit about Miller not being good enough for “matchup minutes” is laughable at best. The guy was 9th in the league in points, he can matchup just fine.

 

[Profet]

The Rangers were up 2 games to zero and then proceeded to score 5 goals over the next 4 games. A defense first Center does not help as much as a PPG multi purpose forward. As I said in my previous reply. You worry about this year and winning the Cup. If you are always looking too far ahead you will soon find your window closed and caught up in the cycle of mediocrity. Go big or go home.

TB blew up their cap every year. Forced to trade off good assets. Yet kept winning. Who's model do you think works best? Tampa's to hell with the Cap model that just won a few Cups or the Ranger's lets save our assets and fall short method. Kreider, Panarin and Zib are all basically in their 30's. How much longer do you think the Rangers window will be open?

Wow... Someone explaining how the Rangers think too much towards the future, that the Rangers have trouble spending young assets to acquire established talent.

I've been here 20 years, and I thought I was done being shocked by posts.

 

[irishlaxburger2]

Using Tampa as a model is ridiculous.

If the Rangers could spend $15-20m over the cap using LTIR, of course they could fit Miller. Kane too!

 

[Anthony5967]

Ok so can we as a fanbase move past opinions like this?

We aren't getting a player like that for one year of Miller, I understand that the sentiment is that Laf is somehow a bust now, but no team gives up a player they just drafted 1st OA for one year of a player they can't afford long term. It's illogical.

The crazy thing is he scored 19 goals this season while playing 14 mins, had 31 points, no PP time. Everybody who watches hockey knows the 1st PP unit for the NYR stay on and generate most of their PP time and offense. The second unit is lucky if they see 25 seconds of the 2 minutes. Everything Laf has had to do is at even strength. He had a strong playoffs to boot. The ones that claim him to be a bust are the same clowns in their basement with Cheetos dust on their fingers as they hammer these same sentiments away behind their screen.

 

[Peen]

Haha I knew somebody would get into the specifics of those players. It’s not the point. The point is nobody wins the cup with one top 6 centre.

Also the bit about Miller not being good smooth for “matchup minutes” is laughable at best. The guy was 9th in the league in points, he can matchup just fine.

I'm saying teams should build balanced rosters where players fit in certain holes. Obviously not a one to one comparison, but considering that we already have Hughes, would I rather have McAvoy or would I rather have Letang? Not factoring in ages, just player types. It's obviously McAvoy.

That's my point with Miller and NYR. I just don't think he's EXACTLY what they need. I think they clearly need to get someone, but that's why I made the point about Lindholm if Gaudreau leaves - especially when you factor in Tkachuk maybe wanting out.

 

[settinguptheplay]

Wow... Someone explaining how the Rangers think too much towards the future, that the Rangers have trouble spending young assets to acquire established talent.

I've been here 20 years, and I thought I was done being shocked by posts.

Care to explain what is so shocking? I get that you might not agree but being shocked implies that something outrageous was said. What was so outrageous? Are you saying that the Rangers have always sold off assets for talent? Sure. But they were not in the position they are today. Ready to compete for the Cup. So circumstances are very different than previous when they were simply trying to make a mediocre team better. Middle of the road teams should not sell off assets. Teams ready to compete should.

 

[Cancuks]

The crazy thing is he scored 19 goals this season while playing 14 mins, had 31 points, no PP time. Everybody who watches hockey knows the 1st PP unit for the NYR stay on and generate most of their PP time and offense. The second unit is lucky if they see 25 seconds of the 2 minutes. Everything Laf has had to do is at even strength. He had a strong playoffs to boot. The ones that claim him to be a bust are the same clowns in their basement with Cheetos dust on their fingers as they hammer these same sentiments away behind their screen.

Except the Rangers have Panarin, Kreider, Lafreniere and soon Othmann all on the left side. Something needs to be done or you end up playing guys out of position. One of these guys will be traded and it won't be the first two.

 

[irishlaxburger2]

Except the Rangers have Panarin, Kreider, Lafreniere and soon Othmann all on the left side. Something needs to be done or you end up playing guys out of position. One of these guys will be traded and it won't be the first two.

Laf is already moving to RW.

 

[settinguptheplay]

Except the Rangers have Panarin, Kreider, Lafreniere and soon Othmann all on the left side. Something needs to be done or you end up playing guys out of position. One of these guys will be traded and it won't be the first two.

But but but.... In 5 years we are gonna need those players!!!! So it makes perfect sense to have talent fade away in the bottom 6 so they can replace the stars later on!