Golf: All Purpose Golf Thread | 2017-18 PGA Tour schedule in post #1

[Pavel Buchnevich]

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Excellent. You're a life saver. Thank you

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Throwback Wednesday to Yesterday when I passed up taking Rahm for the picks contest cause so few picks.


Here i'll start a new controversy cause this thread has been quiet lately.

Rahm is better than McIlroy. At this point. Strictly at this point right now. At the end of his 62 round and probably will be at the end of this full season. Don't say "Rory has 4 majors". Rahm smashed the Tour last year. Probably better than Jordan right now too.


OWGR according to me

1. DJ
2. JT
3. Rahm
4. Spieth?
5. Rory/Hideki/Rose
6. Stenson
7. Day
12-15 range. Cantlay/Hossler


everyone else

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Damn,

Rahm, Hossler, Wise, Landry, McNealy

this event is the coming out event for the next gen

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Throwback Wednesday to Yesterday when I passed up taking Rahm for the picks contest cause so few picks.


Here i'll start a new controversy cause this thread has been quiet lately.

Rahm is better than McIlroy. At this point. Strictly at this point right now. At the end of his 62 round and probably will be at the end of this full season. Don't say "Rory has 4 majors". Rahm smashed the Tour last year. Probably better than Jordan right now too.


OWGR according to me

1. DJ
2. JT
3. Rahm
4. Spieth?
5. Rory/Hideki/Rose
6. Stenson
7. Day
12-15 range. Cantlay/Hossler


everyone else

Form fluctuates so much. Its possible Rahm is the most in form player right now, but I tend to think "best" is more of an all-encompassing type of designation. It's really up to each individual person what that criteria entails, but I'd say it should be more than just form off a few weeks or a few months.

Here was the performance of Rahm in 2017 compared to those others you named.



He played four more events than Johnson, two more than Spieth and Thomas. He won less events than Thomas and Johnson, and the same number as Spieth. All three earned more OWGR points. Rahm had a great season, but what is the argument that he had a better season based on?

Now, if you want to say that Rahm might be better this season than those players, he very well might be. Thomas started off last season in a similar position to Rahm this year, and he won PGA Tour POY, so its possible that Rahm could do something similar. Right now, I don't think he goes above any of those three on anything other than "form", and its not like DJ's form is so bad right now, he beat Rahm to win the TOC.

I don't believe we can really include Rory in the discussion. We just don't have enough information. We can't say he's better than these players or worse. He was playing injured last season. His performances this year will make a determination where he stands in the sport. But surely majors do matter if its close between players when comparing career accomplishments and even season to season accomplishments.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

DJ is the best in the world right now, comfortably. Spieth second. I still want more consistency from Thomas before I say he's a contender for best in the world. His best game is clearly at that level, but when he doesn't bring his best his results are pretty bland. The same can't be said for DJ and especially Spieth.

As for Rahm & Rory, I think I might buy into the idea that Rahm's got a bit of an anger management problem on the course too much, but it's something to watch for this year. Last year was a sort of a grace period for him at the majors as he was still pretty much a rookie and as such was not expected to be a contender. This year he won't get that benefit of the doubt and it should be interesting to see how he handles the added pressure and expectations. Rory has those expectations at every major he plays in no matter his form and he hasn't done well in those circumstances since the 2014 PGA. Last year was definitely a write-off due to his injury and it's a popular take right now that he's going to have a monster year to prove his doubters wrong. I'm a little hesitant on that since Rory is in the "I'll believe it when I see it" camp right now at the majors for me. But we'll see.

I guess I'll offer my predictions for the top-5 OWGR point earners this year. Spieth is a lock, so is DJ probably. One of Rahm and Thomas won't make it; I'll say Rahm has a strong year and Thomas has a relative letdown similar to Spieth's 2016, only to a greater extent. I'll take Day to have a bounceback year and for the 5th guy it needs to be somebody unexpected who takes the next step... I'd like to take Fleetwood but his putter is just garbage. Pieters is an enigma. Cantlay isn't there yet and I have a hard time trusting guys with histories of back injuries. No faith whatsoever in Rickie reaching the top tier. I'll go with Koepka.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

DJ is the best in the world right now, comfortably. Spieth second. I still want more consistency from Thomas before I say he's a contender for best in the world. His best game is clearly at that level, but when he doesn't bring his best his results are pretty bland. The same can't be said for DJ and especially Spieth.


I guess I'll offer my predictions for the top-5 OWGR point earners this year. Spieth is a lock, so is DJ probably. One of Rahm and Thomas won't make it; I'll say Rahm has a strong year and Thomas has a relative letdown similar to Spieth's 2016, only to a greater extent. I'll take Day to have a bounceback year and for the 5th guy it needs to be somebody unexpected who takes the next step... I'd like to take Fleetwood but his putter is just garbage. Pieters is an enigma. Cantlay isn't there yet and I have a hard time trusting guys with histories of back injuries. No faith whatsoever in Rickie reaching the top tier. I'll go with Koepka.

@the bolded, You guys may think I'm out to lunch for saying this, but I'd like to see more from Day before I'm entirely sold on him. He is a great putting and long hitter, but he can't hit fairways consistently. I'm still not entirely sold on him being elite, I think he needs a 3-4 win season before I am. I wouldn't be surprised to see him regress to a 1.5 win/season player. I think he had this career year and peaked and is going to coast a few wins into his late thirties. I'm honestly more sold on JT, if for no other reason than age.

@Pavel Buchnevich My somewhat unbiased hyping of Rahm is heavily based on his potential. In basically his rookie year, he won two events against strong fields, everything but beat DJ in the matchplay final, and again finished behind DJ in the Mexico WGC. A few different bounces for him or DJ and he could've nabbed both those events. He's solid all around, hits long (seems to be a prerequisite to be elite these days, all these guys average over 300 except Jordan I think) and is no slouch with the putter. Maybe he has some anger problems, but I like it. I like the fire inside him, it will be tamed with time, and he has a good support system in the Mickelson's who can get him help if it starts harming his performance.

I don't think it's unreasonable to say we've seen Rory's peak. I think the Open-WGC-PGA win streak is his peak. That's insanely impressive and better than Jordan's Master's-US Open wins. I think Rory grabs two more majors in his career, but I think his raw best may be behind him. It honestly all hinges on his putting though, and I think he knows it, if he improves it, he can get 10 majors.

The jury is still out on Rickie. I think he gets a major, but maybe only one. My gut says maybe Rickie can't disconnect himself from his inner party lifestyle in a way Jordan and JT can. Not that that's a problem, I'd be living it up if I were in his shoes too. I may be wrong in this comparison, but at this point I think Rickie and Hideki can be compared against eachother, from here on out to see who has a better career. I'd bet Hideki but it can go either way.

I'd like to see Rose get another major FWIW. He's my favourite "family man" on Tour I think. Think he can get one?

Obviously all of the above can change if Tiger finds his 2000-2005 form somehow. Then it's a whole different ball game.

@Soliloquy of a Dogge

Also if u guys can like, quote or tag me when u respond I'd appreciate the notification, just in general for the whole thread since it's much easier to see the notification vs check the empty thread.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Let me give my opinion.

I think Rory's being really underrated. We can all give our own opinions, but the stats don't lie. Rory's been elite compared to his peers over the course of his career. He's streaky, we can pretty much conclude that these streaks will happen. He will have years where he's the best player in the world, and years where he's very average, but I don't think he's all of a sudden done, and I think he's due for a good season.

I'm slightly worried about DJ's putting. It completely fell off after the Masters last year. It was back to typical DJ. I know he just won, but I don't expect him to be one of the few best players in the world this year. He never has a bad year, he wins like every year and contends in big tournaments, but I don't think he's going to win 3, 4, 5 times. I think maybe he gets another win, maybe not. I don't think he's going to have a big year, although I don't expect a terrible year. Safely top 10 this year, but I don't think he'll be one of the sport's main characters in 2018.

I actually expect a big year from Rahm. I think he's going to win many times, and contend in a major, maybe a few majors. Pretty much everyone fails to win a major the first time they contend. Occasionally some don't, but I would expect the first major he contends in he won't win. Still, 3 or 4 wins, and one of the best players in the world this year is what I think he'll do. Is he better than the best players? No, and I didn't think Thomas was last year. You gotta prove yourself. Rory has 4 majors, Jordan has 3, DJ wins every year. Prove yourself for more than one season.

I think Thomas will have a down year, I think he'll win an event, maybe two, but he won 5 times last year. I also don't think he's shown such great consistency yet. His good golf is really good, but he doesn't really grind out rounds too well yet to make the cut when he's not playing well, and then back door a good finish. I think he'll have a let-down year, and I'm not convinced he'll ever show consistency.

Jordan's seasons are always very reliable. 2016 was a "down" year, and he still won twice, nearly won a major, ranked top 5 in like every big category, so his "down years" are better than others down years. And an average year like last year is still first in OWGR points gained, including a major, so I would say you can reliably say Jordan will put up one of the better years of any of these golfers. If the putting comes around, he'll probably be the best player this season. If not, he'll likely still be one of the best in the world.

I'm not convinced anyone else is breaking into the top level. Day could have a bounce back year, but I don't expect him to be back to the top of the sport. Matsuyama could win some events, but unless he fixes the robotics in his game, its a problem. Rose is solid. Good enough for a great year? I don't know. Fleetwood is the player who's game I can't get a handle on. He's really good, but I can't figure out why. He's an excellent ball striker, but what else is he really good at? He gets results though, been very impressive. Hossler, Schauffele and Cantlay aren't ready to make that level of breakthrough, in my opinion. They'll probably have good seasons, but I don't expect them to be top players this season. I'm hoping for a big year from Patty Reed, maybe Berger, as well. Tyrrell Hatton is another who I think could have a very good season.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

@Pavel Buchnevich

I would agree with most of the above honestly, I think it is a good analysis in general.

I disagree on Thomas, I think he will do fine, but will have a "down year" but if he wins once, that's fine. I think before he broke out it was an open secret on tour that he had the goods to bring home some titles. He might not be a OWGR top ten guy for next 20 years, but he will get 15 career wins I would bet easily.

Cantlay I think can breakthrough, he was Amateur #1 for like a year. He was looking like he was amazing then back injury, caddie died etc.. Rough few years, give him time to process it all and get his mojo back. Maybe not next year but I think he can be elite.

What do you mean by Hideki's robotics?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

@Pavel Buchnevich

I would agree with most of the above honestly, I think it is a good analysis in general.

I disagree on Thomas, I think he will do fine, but will have a "down year" but if he wins once, that's fine. I think before he broke out it was an open secret on tour that he had the goods to bring home some titles. He might not be a OWGR top ten guy for next 20 years, but he will get 15 career wins I would bet easily.

Cantlay I think can breakthrough, he was Amateur #1 for like a year. He was looking like he was amazing then back injury, caddie died etc.. Rough few years, give him time to process it all and get his mojo back. Maybe not next year but I think he can be elite.

What do you mean by Hideki's robotics?

I don't mean that Thomas will suck, I think he's pretty clearly a top 5 or so talent in the sport, but 5 wins including a major, POY? No, I don't expect that again. I don't think he has that consistency in his locker. He had a really good year, and won nearly all the tournaments he contended in. Usually that doesn't happen. And I expect way more than that throughout his career. 40 wins, 5 majors, something like that. He'll be a top 20 golfer of all time, in my opinion.

Cantlay can breakthrough, but usually breakthroughs happen in steps. He just finally won a few months ago. I'm not expecting 3, 4 wins, any majors, nothing like that. Maybe another win this season, close to top 10 by the end of the year.

Matsyuama plays like a robot. His golf swing, his putting stroke. Everything looks like its been developed in a factory. I think this is why he struggles to win majors. Its so reminiscent of Westwood.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

I don't mean that Thomas will suck, I think he's pretty clearly a top 5 or so talent in the sport, but 5 wins including a major, POY? No, I don't expect that again. I don't think he has that consistency in his locker. He had a really good year, and won nearly all the tournaments he contended in. Usually that doesn't happen. And I expect way more than that throughout his career. 40 wins, 5 majors, something like that. He'll be a top 20 golfer of all time, in my opinion.

Cantlay can breakthrough, but usually breakthroughs happen in steps. He just finally won a few months ago. I'm not expecting 3, 4 wins, any majors, nothing like that. Maybe another win this season, close to top 10 by the end of the year.

Matsyuama plays like a robot. His golf swing, his putting stroke. Everything looks like its been developed in a factory. I think this is why he struggles to win majors. Its so reminiscent of Westwood.

I agree generally, though I would reckon me and you have somewhat differing definitions of consistency. If Thomas wins twice this season, that's consistency. Jordan winning twice following his big year was consistency. What they both had was an elite, career year. I don't think you can expect that every year from anyone, even Tiger. I think one win a year is consistency. If you want to get into elite, you need 1-3 wins a year, but a lot of that is dependent on the strength of field. If Rahm wins a major this year, it looks better imo than JT winning The Fedex St. Judes and the Greenbrier imo.

Did we ever figure out which tour players voted Hideki best putter on tour?

I could be wrong here (this is just pure speculation) but I think Hideki's insane competitiveness could be hurting him. He gives the vibe of someone who beats himself up internally over every missed putt or poor shot. Needs to relax a bit and let some nature change happen.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

As much as I loathe him, I do want to see a healthy and competitive Rory.

Just it looks like DJ may run away as the best of the next five years if the competition doesn't stay sharp.

I'm new to this thread... How could one loathe Rory??? Looked like he was striking the ball real well in the video of his round someone posted, as always with Rory it will come down to if he can get the putter going. I love watching his swing, him and Adam Scott have my two favourite swings in golf.

Interesting thread to follow though, seems like you guys know your stuff.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

I'm new to this thread... How could one loathe Rory??? Looked like he was striking the ball real well in the video of his round someone posted, as always with Rory it will come down to if he can get the putter going. I love watching his swing, him and Adam Scott have my two favourite swings in golf.

Interesting thread to follow though, seems like you guys know your stuff.

I just prefer Spieth to Rory. I don't hate Rory at all, it's more just to bug @Soliloquy of a Dogge and some Rory fans irl.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Dogge is a McIlroy fan, Dr John is a Reed fan, I'm a Spieth fan, Wobbl kind of likes all of them, except McIlroy, and he's more of a Matsuyama fan than others here, and apparently now Rahm.

And almost all of us are Tiger fans, except there's one poster here, sorry I'm forgetting the name, who likes Phil.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

I just prefer Spieth to Rory. I don't hate Rory at all, it's more just to bug @Soliloquy of a Dogge and some Rory fans irl.

And it works. You know how to push my buttons.

Dogge is a McIlroy fan, Dr John is a Reed fan, I'm a Spieth fan, Wobbl kind of likes all of them, except McIlroy, and he's more of a Matsuyama fan than others here, and apparently now Rahm.

And almost all of us are Tiger fans, except there's one poster here, sorry I'm forgetting the name, who likes Phil.

Hey, I also like Day. And DJ. And Rahm. Don't sell me short.

That poster is @Dakota Sioux by the way. But he's just an angry Grandpa

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Dogge is a McIlroy fan, Dr John is a Reed fan, I'm a Spieth fan, Wobbl kind of likes all of them, except McIlroy, and he's more of a Matsuyama fan than others here, and apparently now Rahm.

And almost all of us are Tiger fans, except there's one poster here, sorry I'm forgetting the name, who likes Phil.

I like

1. Tiger
2. Spieth
3. Matsuyama/Rahm
4. Any of the good golfers who are under 23.
5. Rickie cause he is how I would live life if I were a sick pro golfer.


Rory is okay but somewhat overrated (though this may be Jordan in 4 years) Day is a long hitter who can't hit fairways and can putt. DJ is a personality void driving monster and Phil is the Tiger antagonist.


Interesting to see Landry atop the leaderboard. He's the dude who showed up for three days at Oakmont last year. Wonder if he pans out into a legit tour player or just stays on the web.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Caught a bit of Rors' round live early this morning. Damn, he's getting me e̶r̶e̶c̶t̶ , er excited for his upcoming season.

69, 66, 65... incoming Sunday 62?

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Caught a bit of Rors' round live early this morning. Damn, he's getting me e̶r̶e̶c̶t̶ , er excited for his upcoming season.

69, 66, 65... incoming Sunday 62?

How is his putting? Everyone knows his success is hinging on it.

Rory, Fleetwood, Fitz, Pieters

Stacked leaderboard in Dubai

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

How is his putting? Everyone knows his success is hinging on it.

Rory, Fleetwood, Fitz, Pieters

Stacked leaderboard in Dubai

Nothing remarkable though I'd consider it excellent by Rors' usual standards. He was really good from mid-long range in particular.

His ball striking is looking phenomenal though. Dude is striping everything in his bag.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Man I don't think we appreciate enough the fact that golf is essentially a full calendar season. Though April-August is the core of the schedule, I like being able to follow the leaderboard and watch exciting finishes for 40+ weeks of the year.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Fleetwood is good. How will he do in the big events this year? He's now among the first 10-15 names that will be mentioned for those events.

Good performance from Rory, he showed well.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

2GOAT

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Things look good according to Tiger Tracker.