Rumor: All Encompassing Jimmy Vesey Thread. All Rumors/News goes here. Part IV

[BruinLVGA]

Where is Boston's?

We don't need to cling to an agent's piece of PR. You on the other hand are starting to sound desperate.

 

[nmbr_24]

4 threads. This guy better be the second coming of Jesus.

I was always under the impression that he is going to be a pretty good 2nd line winger if everything goes well for him. That is a pretty valuable player for any team but it isn't like he is a top line center, it's just that he is what there is to talk about right now.

 

[Eric Sachs]

Because they're probably right - you need to look at the previous CBA. Vesey was drafted in 2012, and the current CBA came into effect in 2013; therefore, Vesey falls under the previous CBA, not the current one (the current one does indeed state that Vesey would be a UFA on the 16th and not the 15th). However, I don't have a copy of the previous version to confirm.

Edit - you're right, the previous CBA (2005) has the same language. Vesey is a UFA on the 16th, not the 15th.

That's not how things work anyways. The current CBA is the only one that matters and can absolutely make new rules that apply retroactively to all current players and contracts.

There are tons of examples, here's just a few. The cap recapture rule. The change to UFA from the first lockout that applied to all players. Compliance buy-outs.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The poster very clearly stated "there wouldn't be as much pressure" for him in NYC compared to his hometown team. Which is probably true.

He never suggested NYC wouldn't have ANY pressure.

Which is wrong. The NYC market is rough and there will be tons of pressure, more so because of him choosing free agency and all the attention it has already put on him.

 

[satbank]

I can't see Chicago because Vesey took this route to take control of where he wants to be. His second contract could lead him to somewhere else that isn't his decision. After all Hawks won't be able to keep him once they lose the ELC.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

if he signs with NJ, the "he is going to bust" posts will be out in full force (moreso than anywhere else), I'd imagine

 

[Price is Wright]

Can he go back to Nashville?

That would be the funniest result.

 

[Irishguy42]

if he signs with NJ, the "he is going to bust" posts will be out in full force (moreso than anywhere else), I'd imagine

I think they'd be out in full force if he went anywhere. In fact, I'd say they're already out there.

 

[Jmo89]

Which is wrong. The NYC market is rough and there will be tons of pressure, more so because of him choosing free agency and all the attention it has already put on him.

You actually made a point in your post. The previous poster I quoted simply made something up. Again, OP never said there wouldn't be any pressure in NYC.

I've always thought he signs in Boston, personally.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Can he go back to Nashville?

That would be the funniest result.

If he doesn't come to Toronto this is what I want. A planned out in advance return to Nashville where Nashville basically gets the 3rd from Buffalo as a gift since they get Vesey too

 

[NYRFAN218]

Which is wrong. The NYC market is rough and there will be tons of pressure, more so because of him choosing free agency and all the attention it has already put on him.

I doubt it. I don't see how there would be much pressure. He's not going to the Yankees or Giants or something. Hockey's a distant 4th in terms of media coverage and a good prospect signing with the Rangers isn't even a blip on the radar here. There was basically no "pressure" or whatever you want to call it on Hayes when he signed here.

 

[tdfxman]

At D Day -1 I am guessing it is NJD on a Friday announcement

 

[Djp]

less then 24 hours

Because they're probably right - you need to look at the previous CBA. Vesey was drafted in 2012, and the current CBA came into effect in 2013; therefore, Vesey falls under the previous CBA, not the current one (the current one does indeed state that Vesey would be a UFA on the 16th and not the 15th). However, I don't have a copy of the previous version to confirm.

Edit - you're right, the previous CBA (2005) has the same language. Vesey is a UFA on the 16th, not the 15th.

That's not how things work anyways. The current CBA is the only one that matters and can absolutely make new rules that apply retroactively to all current players and contracts.

There are tons of examples, here's just a few. The cap recapture rule. The change to UFA from the first lockout that applied to all players. Compliance buy-outs.

The only rights rule to change in the CBA was the change of European player rights to 4 yrs post draft year from 2 yrs but it was not retroactive on players drafted in 2012 and 2011. The rules around college players did not change.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

I'm guessing some teams are waiting for the Vesey domino to fall before they make any moves.

 

[Ciao]

Which is wrong. The NYC market is rough and there will be tons of pressure, more so because of him choosing free agency and all the attention it has already put on him.

I think Rangers fans would go easy on Vesey knowing that the acquisition cost is zero; that he chose the Rangers over Nashville, Buffalo, his home-town Bruins and every other franchise in what could only be taken as a genuine act of desire to play in the Big Apple; and that he is young and has promise even if it doesn't all come at once.

If I'm Vesey, I'm definitely thinking hard about playing for the Rangers, or the Bruins a close second. It would be a very nice set-up for him.

He's not just a hockey-puck, and might be a little smarter than the average bear.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

if he signs with NJ, the "he is going to bust" posts will be out in full force (moreso than anywhere else), I'd imagine

Yeah, because NJ is the most hated team in the league.

 

[ottawa]

That's not how things work anyways. The current CBA is the only one that matters and can absolutely make new rules that apply retroactively to all current players and contracts.

There are tons of examples, here's just a few. The cap recapture rule. The change to UFA from the first lockout that applied to all players. Compliance buy-outs.

Is there a source on this? would love to read up on it since the habs have Weber

 

[None Shall Pass]

Just thought it was funny that a poster suggested NYC wont have pressure

Which is wrong. The NYC market is rough and there will be tons of pressure, more so because of him choosing free agency and all the attention it has already put on him.

Hockey is at best the 4th most popular sport in NYC, and is probably 5th when college football is on. I never got the "New York is a tough market" thing. The Rangers get token mentions on the sports pages / primetime news, the Islanders and Devils even less than that. It doesn't compare to Montreal or Toronto though.

NYC is a tougher market than, say, Carolina, or something, but I sincerely can't imagine it's in the top 5 of "tough markets" in the NHL.

 

[NYRFAN218]

Hockey is at best the 4th most popular sport in NYC, and is probably 5th when college football is on. I never got the "New York is a tough market" thing. The Rangers get token mentions on the sports pages / primetime news, the Islanders and Devils even less than that. It doesn't compare to Montreal or Toronto though.

NYC is a tougher market than, say, Carolina, or something, but I sincerely can't imagine it's in the top 5 of "tough markets" in the NHL.

It's not a tough market at all. The diehards will be tough on the team, sure, but the media and vast majority of people don't care. There's just too many sports and entertainment options in the city. Out of the teams listed as being in the hunt for Vesey; in terms of pressure NYR/NJD are definitely behind Chicago, Boston, and Toronto. Buffalo I'll leave out because I don't know the market well enough in terms of how much the Sabres are discussed or analyzed in the media.

 

[Meichel Kane]

Where is Boston's?

Here.

“What Jimmy wants to do is see it through,†said Fish. “He’s wanted to go to free agency and he’s going to see it through. There’s about 4-5 teams other than Buffalo that he wants to hear from. And then after that he’s going to make a decision. I think he’d love for the Bruins to be one of those teams. I assume that we will be taking a call from them.

There's a fluff piece out there for every reporter that has framed the question that way.

 

[Canada4Gold]

The only rights rule to change in the CBA was the change of European player rights to 4 yrs post draft year from 2 yrs but it was not retroactive on players drafted in 2012 and 2011. The rules around college players did not change.

huh?

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/CBA2012/NHL_NHLPA_2013_CBA.pdf

Players Drafted from a Club Outside North America.

(i) Notwithstanding any provision of Sections 8.6(a) or (b) to the contrary, if
a Player drafted at age 18 or 19 is drafted from a club outside North
America, his drafting Club shall retain the exclusive right of negotiation
for his services through and including the fourth June 1 following his
selection in the Entry Draft. The Club need not make a Bona Fide Offer to
such Player to retain such rights.

(ii) Notwithstanding any provision of Sections 8.6(a) or (b) to the contrary, if
a Player drafted at age 20 or older is drafted from a club outside North
America, his drafting Club shall retain the exclusive right of negotiation
for his services through and including the second June 1 following his
selection in the Entry Draft. The Club need not make a Bona Fide Offer to
such Player to retain such rights.

(iii) Upon the expiration of the applicable exclusive right of negotiation as
outlined in subsections (i) and (ii) above, the Player shall be a draft-related
Unrestricted Free Agent.

Do you mean for the 20 year old part? Because 18 and 19 year old guys drafted out of Europe still have 4 years for their rights to expire.

 

[Mpasta]

Which is wrong. The NYC market is rough and there will be tons of pressure, more so because of him choosing free agency and all the attention it has already put on him.

How is anything I said wrong? I said he'd get more pressure in Boston than in NY.

You stated examples of why he'd get more pressure no matter where he'd go.

Just take a look at how many threads Bruins fans have had on this kid in the last few months.

If you think Vesey would have more pressure on him in NY than in Boston then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Eric Sachs]

Is there a source on this? would love to read up on it since the habs have Weber

Page 1 of CBA

PREAMBLE
This Collective Bargaining Agreement, together with all Exhibits hereto ("CBA" or "Agreement"), which is the product of bona fide, arm's length collective bargaining, is entered into the 15th day of February, 2013, by and between the National Hockey League, a joint venture organized as a not-for-profit unincorporated association ("NHL" or "League"), which is recognized as the sole and exclusive bargaining representative of the present and future Clubs of the NHL, and the National Hockey League Players' Association ("NHLPA" or "Association"), which is recognized as the sole and exclusive bargaining representative of present and future Players in the NHL. The NHL and the NHLPA hereafter shall be referred to collectively as "the parties". This CBA supersedes and replaces all prior collective bargaining agreements between the parties.

 

[Ciao]

Page 1 of CBA

They only operate under one CBA at a time.

 

[Ciao]

Hockey is at best the 4th most popular sport in NYC, and is probably 5th when college football is on. I never got the "New York is a tough market" thing. The Rangers get token mentions on the sports pages / primetime news, the Islanders and Devils even less than that. It doesn't compare to Montreal or Toronto though.

NYC is a tougher market than, say, Carolina, or something, but I sincerely can't imagine it's in the top 5 of "tough markets" in the NHL.

I think Montreal is the toughest market. Two languages, lots of history, and the Canadiens are the main event. Always.

In The Game, Ken Dryden wrote about the back-up goalie puking in the ****ter before games as one example of the pressure on their players.