Proposal: All Bruins Trade Proposals V

[Shaun]

That might be the shortest response to a post you've ever had.

Kings saw something back then too, seems like they changed their opinion. I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and say the Bruins management are smart enough to make the same determination.

Kovalchuk sucks and would be a terrible acquisition. His only value is firing one-timers from the top of the left circle. And they already have Pastrnak to do that just fine.

id take kovalchuk with retained salary ripping clappers in exchange for the corpse of backes

 

[bbfan419]

So you want to acquire a solid/good 3rd liner + Top 6 winger and in the process you would potentially give up our best chip in UV to get Backes off the books, when Backes is out injured and may not play again? Interesting....

Step back from the ledge.

Well if Backes can't come back and goes on LTIR than even better for us.

 

[Lo97]

.....I beg to differ with the bolded lol

Also Beleskey had over 30 the year before he signed here, it can absolutely happen by accident. The 1 in the last 21 is really concerning to me though, and I get he’s battled some injuries. But those injuries are also concerning, as a guy who has seen multiple beloved power forwards break down here I see what that style of play brings in the long run. It’s awesome to have when they are at their best but it’s also important to make sure you’re paying for their best. You rarely are.

Beleskey had 22 the year before he signed in Boston which was a career high.

 

[CDJ]

Beleskey had 22 the year before he signed in Boston which was a career high.

He also had 8 in 16 playoff games for a total of 30 goals in 81 games, still less than a full season of hockey. So not over 30 like I said but 30 exactly. Still more than Anderson so my point remains

 

[sarge88]

Lol....Every guy you listed was a 4th liner besides Heinen. He's nothing like any of them because he's a middle 6 forward. How is Heinen lumped in with these players when his worst statistical season hasn't even been sniffed by any of them? Heinen is a 0.50 PPG player in the NHL.

Kuraly? 0.23 PPG
Nordstrom? 0.18 PPG
Wagner? 0.20 PPG
Lindholm? 0.19 PPG
Kuhlman? 0.26 PPG

I mean, really LMFAO.

Because if you want to win a cup -- Heinen is a 3rd liner. If Heinen got traded -- it's likely one of those guys would replace him on line 3 --- where the vast majority of people feel he belongs.

Cutting to brass tacks.......would you move Heinen for Anderson, even up?

Would Columbus?

Would the Bruins?

I say -- Yes I would.
No Columbus wouldn't.
Yes the Bruins would.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Because if you want to win a cup -- Heinen is a 3rd liner. If Heinen got traded -- it's likely one of those guys would replace him on line 3 --- where the vast majority of people feel he belongs.

And if you want to win the Cup, every guy you listed is either a 4th liner or not dressed.

Cutting to brass tacks.......would you move Heinen for Anderson, even up?

Would Columbus?

Would the Bruins?

I say -- Yes I would.
No Columbus wouldn't.
Yes the Bruins would.

No, I wouldn't. It's a lateral move at best. He also is showing signs of breaking down and he's about to get paid (unless he continues this woefully horrendous season).

No, Columbus wouldn't because they value Anderson a lot more than he's worth.

I would say "no" for Boston doing this kind of deal because I believe Bruins/Sweeney know that they need to add to this group, not make a lateral move.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Well if Backes can't come back and goes on LTIR than even better for us.

You said in the previous post that you want Backes to retire or whatever. You do know that if he retires, the Bruins still take on some cap hit. It's not like his whole contract just evaporates.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

god it's infuriating how polarized these debates are. somehow this has become a purely heinen vs. anderson discussion. anyone who states heinen's positive value to the team is labeled as overrating him when for the most part we're simply stating facts. nobody is claiming he's Kucherov. We're just saying that while he & Anderson are vastly different players, the net value they bring to their teams is at best equal and in most measurable ways actually favors Heinen, who is also 2 years younger so upside is a factor here too.

The point is that trading them 1 for 1 is at best a wash, but in terms of actual evidence, Heinen is the better player thus far in their careers. He's more productive, more versatile, wildly better defensively, all while being 2 years younger.

And I don't think guys like me & @BruinsFanSince94 are even saying that Anderson is bad or that we wouldn't trade for him. I just wouldn't trade Heinen for him (and I'm not even a huge Heinen fan; that's the hilarious thing here). Anderson is being massively overrated here by people who desperately want more bangers on the team.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

god it's infuriating how polarized these debates are. somehow this has become a purely heinen vs. anderson discussion. anyone who states heinen's positive value to the team is labeled as overrating him when for the most part we're simply stating facts. nobody is claiming he's Kucherov. We're just saying that while he & Anderson are vastly different players, the net value they bring to their teams is at best equal and in most measurable ways actually favors Heinen, who is also 2 years younger so upside is a factor here too.

The point is that trading them 1 for 1 is at best a wash, but in terms of actual evidence, Heinen is the better player thus far in their careers. He's more productive, more versatile, wildly better defensively, all while being 2 years younger.

And I don't think guys like me & @BruinsFanSince94 are even saying that Anderson is bad or that we wouldn't trade for him. I just wouldn't trade Heinen for him (and I'm not even a huge Heinen fan; that's the hilarious thing here). Anderson is being massively overrated here by people who desperately want more bangers on the team.

Nope. Anderson is a very good player. Give me Anderson for a fair package. I'd take him on this team in heartbeat. Just not for Heinen+. The problem is that it won't happen. CBJ probably wouldn't want Heinen as the headline in the package for Anderson. They'd want a top prospect + 1st because they definitely overvalue him. He is a rare player. He's big, fast, can score, and will hit (granted, not as much as it's believed around here...Another issue I have with posters who drool over JA).

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

You said in the previous post that you want Backes to retire or whatever. You do know that if he retires, the Bruins still take on some cap hit. It's not like his whole contract just evaporates.

contracts signed over age 35 cant be retired... but ones under 35 would disappear

I used to think there was a recapture penalty for backes since his deal is front loaded... someone showed me that the rule for recapture doesnt apply to people backes age too.

if he did retire we would be rid of his entire hit... but that ignores the question 'why would he retire?'

unless we intend to humilate him by sending him to the minors... wheres his incentive? and if we did try to humilate him, it simply cant benefit any of our future dealings with vets who were contemplating finishing their careers here

an argument could be made that backes play suffered due to concusion injuries suffered in the line of duty. if a warrior gets hurt in the line of service, and then you cast him aside like garbage... thats not going to play well

honestly im quite surprised he didnt do a byfuglin this summer and get himself some 'needed' surgery and a paid holiday for the year on the ltir. im guessing though, the odds of that happening next year are pretty high.

expecting him to walk away from multi million dollar payday is crazy... but seeing his cap hit disappear due to the ltir seems reasonable

 

[compan]

bruin braintrust wanted him... he chose LA and their 3 year offer, but I trust the bruins brain trust... they saw something in the idea of picking him up

going to trust their judgement on this one

Yeah absolutely not. Do you trust them still with their Backes decision? The writing is very much on the wall with Kovy and if our front office can't see that, I would know NOT to trust their judgement.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

You said in the previous post that you want Backes to retire or whatever. You do know that if he retires, the Bruins still take on some cap hit. It's not like his whole contract just evaporates.

How much of a cap is that because if it is not much (say 2 million or less) that would be very beneficial for the Bruins. Maybe they find and pay for a guy like Mojo who was 4.5 million at the time and signed for that this year. Works for me, swap out Backes for a Mojo clone, what is wrong with that scenario?

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Nope. Anderson is a very good player. Give me Anderson for a fair package. I'd take him on this team in heartbeat. Just not for Heinen+. The problem is that it won't happen. CBJ probably wouldn't want Heinen as the headline in the package for Anderson. They'd want a top prospect + 1st because they definitely overvalue him. He is a rare player. He's big, fast, can score, and will hit (granted, not as much as it's believed around here...Another issue I have with posters who drool over JA).

This.

I would be ecstatic if they added Anderson, but the B’s need to keep Heinen, not deal him for JA. Fill one hole, create another.

As far as their relative value goes, I think Heinen’s is a bit higher. He’s younger and under contract next year at very reasonable money. Anderson will likely get it together and he’s going to want $4m minimum. The B’s can’t afford him, Coyle, and Krug.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

You said in the previous post that you want Backes to retire or whatever. You do know that if he retires, the Bruins still take on some cap hit. It's not like his whole contract just evaporates.

Its in everyones best interest that Backes goes on LTIR and is like Savard. Especially Backes.

I'm not sure what concussion protocol is for hockey if he has to pass any tests to return this year. Next year he will have to pass a physical at camp. Even if he is adamant about playing I don't think its a certainty he will pass.

The other guy bounced off Backes and took 99% of the contact and Backes still picked up another concussion. No real head to head contact either. To me that is a pretty cut and dry sign that he can't play pro hockey anymore. I'm surprised he passed the physical this year if he picked up a concussion on such an innocuous hit from the Backes side of it not Sabourin's.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

contracts signed over age 35 cant be retired... but ones under 35 would disappear

I used to think there was a recapture penalty for backes since his deal is front loaded... someone showed me that the rule for recapture doesnt apply to people backes age too.

if he did retire we would be rid of his entire hit... but that ignores the question 'why would he retire?'

unless we intend to humilate him by sending him to the minors... wheres his incentive? and if we did try to humilate him, it simply cant benefit any of our future dealings with vets who were contemplating finishing their careers here

an argument could be made that backes play suffered due to concusion injuries suffered in the line of duty. if a warrior gets hurt in the line of service, and then you cast him aside like garbage... thats not going to play well

honestly im quite surprised he didnt do a byfuglin this summer and get himself some 'needed' surgery and a paid holiday for the year on the ltir. im guessing though, the odds of that happening next year are pretty high.

expecting him to walk away from multi million dollar payday is crazy... but seeing his cap hit disappear due to the ltir seems reasonable

According to a piece posted by @Dom - OHL on TSP, if Backes were to retire, the Bruins would carry a 4M cap hit for the remainder of his contract, which spread out of 2 years would be 2M. Not sure how it works if he retired mid-season, as the piece was written before the start of the season, but his entire hit wouldn't just disappear.

Dominic Tiano: David Backes- More Questions Than Answers

Retirement

I’m not going to debate the possibility that Backes would contemplate retirement. But with his injury history, anything is possible. Backes’ cap hit, even though it was not a 35-plus contract when he signed it, would not disappear if he chose to retire. The NHL has something called cap-recapture – a penalty imposed on teams who signed a player to front loaded deals in order to lower the cap hit. Basically, it’s the dollars paid to date minus the cap hit to date, divided by the number of years remaining to calculate the cap hit over the remainder of the term on the contract. I’ll break down the numbers below.

What makes Backes’ cap-recapture penalty even more complicated would be the date on which he retires. Backes is owed a $3 million signing bonus on July 1st and that directly effects the cap-recapture penalty. If Backes were truly contemplating retirement, would he do it 13 days away from collecting that $3 million pay check? Likely not, I know I wouldn’t and you probably wouldn’t either. But we’ll break the numbers down for you anyway.

To date, Backes has earned $19 million ($9 million in salary and $10 million in signing bonuses) while his cap hit to date is $18 million. The Bruins received a $1 million savings on the cap hit so the cap recapture penalty is $1 million spread over two seasons, or a cap hit of $500,000 per season.

However, if he retired after July 1st and receiving his signing bonus, he will have earned $22 million while the cap hit was $18 million, making the recapture penalty $4 million or spread over two years, a $2 million cap hit.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

This.

I would be ecstatic if they added Anderson, but the B’s need to keep Heinen, not deal him for JA. Fill one hole, create another.

As far as their relative value goes, I think Heinen’s is a bit higher. He’s younger and under contract next year at very reasonable money. Anderson will likely get it together and he’s going to want $4m minimum. The B’s can’t afford him, Coyle, and Krug.

Exactly.... Because, contrary to the belief of people against Heinen, the hole will not be filled by Nordstrom, Kuraly, Wagner, Ritchie, Cehlarik, Bjork, or any other player in the organization.

 

[Fenian24]

This.

I would be ecstatic if they added Anderson, but the B’s need to keep Heinen, not deal him for JA. Fill one hole, create another.

As far as their relative value goes, I think Heinen’s is a bit higher. He’s younger and under contract next year at very reasonable money. Anderson will likely get it together and he’s going to want $4m minimum. The B’s can’t afford him, Coyle, and Krug.

Believe it or not I agree that moving Heinen creates another hole that needs to be filled, I just believe they have options to fill it internally which they don't in Anderson. Ideally I would move prospects and picks for Anderson but I don't know if Columbus does that.

Where we differ is not being able to afford DeBrusk, Krug, Coyle and Anderson. Backes will be bought out next season, Siedenberg and Belesky come off the books entirely, Miller is off the books and you move Moore you have over 10M from those contracts, cap should also go up. Krug and Coyle will get raises but are not bargain basement deals now. DeBrusk and Anderson would be in for the biggest raises.

There are other options besides Anderson to fill that spot, you can do it with two players and have one in house already in Frederic and then go get a Krieder or similar player. Bottom line is they need size and scoring in the top 9 and Sweeney needs to make a move soon to get it.

 

[Fenian24]

Its in everyones best interest that Backes goes on LTIR and is like Savard. Especially Backes.

I'm not sure what concussion protocol is for hockey if he has to pass any tests to return this year. Next year he will have to pass a physical at camp. Even if he is adamant about playing I don't think its a certainty he will pass.

The other guy bounced off Backes and took 99% of the contact and Backes still picked up another concussion. No real head to head contact either. To me that is a pretty cut and dry sign that he can't play pro hockey anymore. I'm surprised he passed the physical this year if he picked up a concussion on such an innocuous hit from the Backes side of it not Sabourin's.

I thought it was a shoulder injury?

 

[sarge88]

Nope. Anderson is a very good player. Give me Anderson for a fair package. I'd take him on this team in heartbeat. Just not for Heinen+. The problem is that it won't happen. CBJ probably wouldn't want Heinen as the headline in the package for Anderson. They'd want a top prospect + 1st because they definitely overvalue him. He is a rare player. He's big, fast, can score, and will hit (granted, not as much as it's believed around here...Another issue I have with posters who drool over JA).

Fair enough.

Just an example of different perspectives. I agree that Columbus wouldn't want Heinen straight up for him. I think Boston would though.

My take is really centered on this. Anderson at his best would provide this team with 2 things they need: Physicality up front and goal scoring.

Heinen is simply a better version of something they have in spades: 3rd line talent. I'm not saying that as a knock, as I think you and most agree that he is a 3rd liner.

I don't care about next year to be honest. If Anderson (or anyone) gives them a better chance at the cup this year, I'm all for it.

I don't mind them overpaying in a one deal to get the right guy. The core is aging and IMO this year is probably their best chance in the next 5 to win a cup.

Lastly, even if I agree with you and others that this is a lateral move at best (which I don't). Why is lateral bad, when the players provide different things?

IMO this team needs size, toughness and scoring up front more than it needs another solid third liner.

Now if you or anyone else is coming from the perspective that Heinen is more than a 3rd liner, then that's a different debate that I don't think I want to re-engage in.

 

[DominicT]

I guess i pay attention to the cap?

Well, the thing is that Kovalchuk's signing bonus is due December 15th as opposed to July 1st, purposely done by the Kovalchuk camp. That signing bonus is $5.3 million and then carries a $700k salary. Next season is a straight salary of $4.25 million.

Kings could retain 50% of the remaining salary (+ bonuses) - $10.25 million and $3.125 million on the cap.

That's $2,562,500 in actual dollars Per season) for a $3.125 million cap hit.

I think they could find a better way to spend their money.

 

[DominicT]

According to a piece posted by @Dom - OHL on TSP, if Backes were to retire, the Bruins would carry a 4M cap hit for the remainder of his contract, which spread out of 2 years would be 2M. Not sure how it works if he retired mid-season, as the piece was written before the start of the season, but his entire hit wouldn't just disappear.

Dominic Tiano: David Backes- More Questions Than Answers

Retirement

I’m not going to debate the possibility that Backes would contemplate retirement. But with his injury history, anything is possible. Backes’ cap hit, even though it was not a 35-plus contract when he signed it, would not disappear if he chose to retire. The NHL has something called cap-recapture – a penalty imposed on teams who signed a player to front loaded deals in order to lower the cap hit. Basically, it’s the dollars paid to date minus the cap hit to date, divided by the number of years remaining to calculate the cap hit over the remainder of the term on the contract. I’ll break down the numbers below.

What makes Backes’ cap-recapture penalty even more complicated would be the date on which he retires. Backes is owed a $3 million signing bonus on July 1st and that directly effects the cap-recapture penalty. If Backes were truly contemplating retirement, would he do it 13 days away from collecting that $3 million pay check? Likely not, I know I wouldn’t and you probably wouldn’t either. But we’ll break the numbers down for you anyway.

To date, Backes has earned $19 million ($9 million in salary and $10 million in signing bonuses) while his cap hit to date is $18 million. The Bruins received a $1 million savings on the cap hit so the cap recapture penalty is $1 million spread over two seasons, or a cap hit of $500,000 per season.

However, if he retired after July 1st and receiving his signing bonus, he will have earned $22 million while the cap hit was $18 million, making the recapture penalty $4 million or spread over two years, a $2 million cap hit.

I've corrected that after confirmation from the NHLPA.

There is no cap recapture.

 

[DominicT]

I thought it was a shoulder injury?

I posted here a couple of days after the incident that I was hearing it was his shoulder. Haven't heard a peep since. I do know the concussion spotters never pulled him off the ice.

 

[DominicT]

Well, the thing is that Kovalchuk's signing bonus is due December 15th as opposed to July 1st, purposely done by the Kovalchuk camp. That signing bonus is $5.3 million and then carries a $700k salary. Next season is a straight salary of $4.25 million.

Kings could retain 50% of the remaining salary (+ bonuses) - $10.25 million and $3.125 million on the cap.

That's $2,562,500 in actual dollars Per season) for a $3.125 million cap hit.

I think they could find a better way to spend their money.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

I've corrected that after confirmation from the NHLPA.

There is no cap recapture.

Ah, okay. Thanks for the update.

 

[CDJ]

Exactly.... Because, contrary to the belief of people against Heinen, the hole will not be filled by Nordstrom, Kuraly, Wagner, Ritchie, Cehlarik, Bjork, or any other player in the organization.

Can’t be filled by Bjork because we are at a point where losing him creates a hole in the lineup too, would just be opening up one hole to plug another.


I get that some don’t like Heinen but the comparisons earlier in the thread to Kuraly, Wagner, and Nordstrom were incredibly disingenuous.