Movies: Alien: Covenant (2017)

[The Gongshow]

I agree with all of these points. The fifth point you brought up almost made me yell at the screen at how stupid it was. I'm pretty sure they could have easily written something in there to make that part more believable.

[spoil] People are getting infected by the world around them, said people are getting ripped apart by aliens bursting out of their bodies, said 10 foot tall aliens are running around killing your friends, this robot leading me down this creepy basement is clearly upset that you killed one of them, and there isn't a thought that maybe you shouldn't stick your head in the egg sack? There aren't words for how stupid that character/scene is. [/spoil]

One bone I have to pick with the prequels is how they kind of ruined the creepiness and ambiguity of space jockey.

Don't mind the premise of Prometheus. But the fact that the engineers and the space jockeys are one in the same just doesn't make sense to me. You can very clearly see physical differences between the SJ in Alien and the engineers in Prometheus.

Call me a nerd or nitpicky if you want, but I notice stuff like that. Really brings me back to the whole Star Wars prequels what with the creators trying to shove **** down our throat that doesn't really work or make sense.

Honestly the easiest way to fix/answer the "lets look inside this egg" problem in every movie could be that the egg, when it opens, emits some kind of pheromone that draws its prey closer to it.

I'm fine with the Engineers being the SJ. Everyone needs space suits right!



As far as the next film goes, maybe the Engineers made humans to be hosts for the Aliens. We know they seem to worship or know of the Xeno's due to a mural seen in Prometheus. Maybe the Engineers where going to earth to make Earth into a new Xeno home planet.

Maybe thats what David is planning on doing with roughly 2000 crew and a bunch of embryos. Only problem is he only has 2 face hugger embryos.

 

[Dogewow]

Honestly the easiest way to fix/answer the "lets look inside this egg" problem in every movie could be that the egg, when it opens, emits some kind of pheromone that draws its prey closer to it.

I'm fine with the Engineers being the SJ. Everyone needs space suits right!



As far as the next film goes, maybe the Engineers made humans to be hosts for the Aliens. We know they seem to worship or know of the Xeno's due to a mural seen in Prometheus. Maybe the Engineers where going to earth to make Earth into a new Xeno home planet.

Maybe thats what David is planning on doing with roughly 2000 crew and a bunch of embryos. Only problem is he only has 2 face hugger embryos.

That could be an option. But honestly him getting pissed, turning his back to the egg and having the FH sneak up on him would have been 100% believable as opposed to the stupidity of that scene.

And I don't think those are space suits for the SJ. They may be in Prometheus, but they make very clear references to it being bone structure in the original Alien. They describe it as "fossilized", and say things like "the bones are bent outward" when discussing the chest burst on it.

Even if the they want to change it to space suits, there are very clear physical differences between the SJ fossil/suit in Alien versus what they try to force on us in Prometheus. It's like they forgot to check the original Alien before they made Prometheus.

 

[EON]

While the first two are *BY FAR* the best, rewatch Alien 3 if you haven't seen it in a while. It is infinitely better than anyone gives it credit for.

You're right, I should give the third one more credit. It at least gave Ripley's character a decent arc.

I'll still defend the series overall. The first two are vastly superior to the other four, but I still have things I like about those others.

Up until Covenant, I appreciated the fact that all the films had different tones/approaches/styles. It was the rare series that was more about the directors than the actors or story. Covenant does some interesting things, but I think one of its problems is the return of Ridley Scott. Same director, treading the same ground as his previous entry. It really is becoming more about overall plot advancement. The original four obviously had overlaps with Ripley and Weyland-Yutani, but you don't really need to see them in a set order. Each is mostly self-contained and each has a style to its own. They don't always work, but I at least find it interesting.

Covenant's greatest sin may be that it just wasn't that interesting.

For me, Ridley Scott is beginning to turn into George Lucas. There are just so many plot inconsistencies with the canon of this universe now and I just don't think the movies are good enough to make up for it. He's still a good director in terms of the visuals and cinematography but the plot has been just a giant mess.

 

[Dogewow]

For me, Ridley Scott is beginning to turn into George Lucas. There are just so many plot inconsistencies with the canon of this universe now and I just don't think the movies are good enough to make up for it. He's still a good director in terms of the visuals and cinematography but the plot has been just a giant mess.

100% agree.

[spoil] The whole "David created the Aliens" plotline is just stupid and kind of an insult to the original series and fans that they just try and force in our face.[/spoil]

Initially enjoyed the movie for what it was, but the more you think about it, the more of a mess you realize it is. It really is going the way of the Star Wars prequels. What is it with old directors ruining once great franchises for us?

Maybe it's been overstated, but the idea of "less is more" is typically an important rule to follow when making a horror movie. There's creepiness and fear that comes from the unknown and ambiguity of a character/lore. Them telling us the story of where the Alien came from, and them linking the Engineers and Space Jockeys as one didn't need to be told.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Well the Alien franchise was already kind of ruined.

Prometheus was a better and more interesting film then Alien 3, Resurrection or any of the AvP films.

 

[Osprey]

Honestly the easiest way to fix/answer the "lets look inside this egg" problem in every movie could be that the egg, when it opens, emits some kind of pheromone that draws its prey closer to it.

That would just highlight the other problem, though, the "let's remove our helmets on an alien world with signs of intelligent life that we don't know is friendly or not" problem. If they'd play it safe and simply keep their helmets on, like they should, they wouldn't be able to smell any pheromone coming from the egg.

I think that the best solution is simply to not do it anymore. Write an original story that doesn't involve scenes that are similar to ones that we've seen before. If you can't, then don't make a film until you can.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

Or just have the eggs open when they sense something suitable nearby, then the face huggers could just run around and be sneaky and hide until the right moment arises.

I can suspend a lot of disbelief if a movie is sound, but there is no way anyone on this planet, who was just led down a flight of stairs into an abandoned basement and saw an egg that big open, would react with anything other than a girlish scream of terror, followed by a full sprint in the opposite direction.

 

[Bee Sheriff]

That could be an option. But honestly him getting pissed, turning his back to the egg and having the FH sneak up on him would have been 100% believable as opposed to the stupidity of that scene.

And I don't think those are space suits for the SJ. They may be in Prometheus, but they make very clear references to it being bone structure in the original Alien. They describe it as "fossilized", and say things like "the bones are bent outward" when discussing the chest burst on it.

Even if the they want to change it to space suits, there are very clear physical differences between the SJ fossil/suit in Alien versus what they try to force on us in Prometheus. It's like they forgot to check the original Alien before they made Prometheus.

I wasn't aware that they had done anything other than glance at it. Care to fill us in on their definitive dissection notes?

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

I wasn't aware that they had done anything other than glance at it. Care to fill us in on their definitive dissection notes?

I can't recall 100% if it was in Alien or not, but it definitely 100% was in AvP when the blond chick is checking out remains of a human and the mentions that the bones were broken from the inside.

 

[Dogewow]

I wasn't aware that they had done anything other than glance at it. Care to fill us in on their definitive dissection notes?

This is a Vimeo of the ship exploration/SJ scene.

https://vimeo.com/13974940

The part I'm referring to is towards the end of the video. Give the whole thing a watch though. The video really illustrates what a horror movie should feel like. The pacing and feel of the movie is totally different than the "lets create these convoluted plots, shove that Alien on the screen and create no tension" feel of the new movies. Ridley Scott and all these other directors/writers need to follow the KISS principle.

 

[Sotty]

100% agree.

[spoil] The whole "David created the Aliens" plotline is just stupid and kind of an insult to the original series and fans that they just try and force in our face.[/spoil]

Initially enjoyed the movie for what it was, but the more you think about it, the more of a mess you realize it is. It really is going the way of the Star Wars prequels. What is it with old directors ruining once great franchises for us?

Maybe it's been overstated, but the idea of "less is more" is typically an important rule to follow when making a horror movie. There's creepiness and fear that comes from the unknown and ambiguity of a character/lore. Them telling us the story of where the Alien came from, and them linking the Engineers and Space Jockeys as one didn't need to be told.

[spoil]Speaking of Star Wars. The whole "David created the Aliens" thing is just as stupid as the midichlorians disaster in Episode 1. Noone needed to know how the force works. The explanation by Yoda in Empire was perfectly fine and it kept it mysterious and interesting.[/spoil]

 

[RobBrown4PM]

[spoil]Speaking of Star Wars. The whole "David created the Aliens" thing is just as stupid as the midichlorians disaster in Episode 1. Noone needed to know how the force works. The explanation by Yoda in Empire was perfectly fine and it kept it mysterious and interesting.[/spoil]

Agreed, 110%

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Very steep drop at NA Box Office for film

71% drop in weekend two ,, Though film hasn't been a flop it has underwhelmed what studio was hoping and seems to indicate the continued decline of franchise overall

 

[Dogewow]

[spoil] One other thing that didn't make sense to me.

Why did David help Daniels and Tennessee when the Alien was on board the ship? Did I miss something here?

He was seriously distraught when the captain killed his earlier creation, why would he help them shoot the Alien out of the airlock, effectively killing it if he cared about them so much? Why not just screw up the plan and have them get killed by the Alien or accident?

I mean I guess it makes sense that he wouldn't want to reveal himself as David at that point, but still... [/spoil]

 

[KesselBuiltMyHotrod]

[spoil] One other thing that didn't make sense to me.

Why did David help Daniels and Tennessee when the Alien was on board the ship? Did I miss something here?

He was seriously distraught when the captain killed his earlier creation, why would he help them shoot the Alien out of the airlock, effectively killing it if he cared about them so much? Why not just screw up the plan and have them get killed by the Alien or accident?

I mean I guess it makes sense that he wouldn't want to reveal himself as David at that point, but still... [/spoil]

[spoil]He wanted them to survive for his experiments.[/spoil]

 

[Shockmaster]

Well the Alien franchise was already kind of ruined.

Prometheus was a better and more interesting film then Alien 3, Resurrection or any of the AvP films.

Alien 3 ruined the franchise.

 

[Dogewow]

[spoil]He wanted them to survive for his experiments.[/spoil]

[spoil] Did he really need them though considering there were 2000 other colonists on board? [/spoil]

 

[KesselBuiltMyHotrod]

[spoil] Did he really need them though considering there were 2000 other colonists on board? [/spoil]

[spoil] Humans are a finite resource. He can make more aliens.[/spoil]

 

[chicagoskycam]

[spoil]He wanted them to survive for his experiments.[/spoil]

[spoil]I would think he needed the ship and all aboard to survive, not really them. The Alien could have screwed with his plans.[/spoil]

 

[The Gongshow]

[spoil] One other thing that didn't make sense to me.

Why did David help Daniels and Tennessee when the Alien was on board the ship? Did I miss something here?

He was seriously distraught when the captain killed his earlier creation, why would he help them shoot the Alien out of the airlock, effectively killing it if he cared about them so much? Why not just screw up the plan and have them get killed by the Alien or accident?

I mean I guess it makes sense that he wouldn't want to reveal himself as David at that point, but still... [/spoil]

From what I gathered..

[spoil]The Alien was looking at the monitor or camera I think it showed David and the alien reacted hostile towards his image and this shocked David a tad, when earlier the other Alien was calm and approach him. Maybe David wasn't sure how this Alien would act around him so decided to let it die.

David could have been helping them get the Alien into that area and just hope it killed Daniels and Tennessee

I also don't remember 100% if there even was a monitor of Davids face, but the Alien seemed very interested in the camera or monitor or what ever that David was watching through[/spoil]

 

[Dogewow]

[spoil] Humans are a finite resource. He can make more aliens.[/spoil]

[spoil] How did the Alien end up on the ship though? Unless I missed something, they never showed how Lope ended up with the Xenomorph.

If took a facehugger on the planet then I could buy this line of thinking, but if David snuck a Xeno on the ship somehow then it doesn't make sense.

David is either an idiot, or the plot really started to not add up at this point in the movie. Not that there weren't parts of the movie where it didn't before.
[/spoil]

 

[chicagoskycam]

[spoil] How did the Alien end up on the ship though? Unless I missed something, they never showed how Lope ended up with the Xenomorph.

If took a facehugger on the planet then I could buy this line of thinking, but if David snuck a Xeno on the ship somehow then it doesn't make sense.

David is either an idiot, or the plot really started to not add up at this point in the movie. Not that there weren't parts of the movie where it didn't before.
[/spoil]

If I remember it attached itself during take off and got in. It's almost like we have seen that somewhere else before. There has been enough discussed in this thread to not use tags. I wouldn't come in here if I hadn't seen it. The entire plot was just ..... When did David turn and why. In Prometheus we can assume he was following the conflicted orders of Wayland and maybe still is or is he self aware.

 

[Hivemind]

David aided Daniels and Tennessee because he wanted the colonization mission to continue (so he can spread the xenomorphs with the human "mothers" he designed them for). He needs a portion of the crew to survive for that to happen, and a story to tell the communications logs. How he proceeds with them upon exiting cryo sleep will be interesting, but presumably there's a meaningful relationship between two survivors and two face hugger embryos.


The Xenomorph got aboard the Covenant when the face hugger infected Lope. They all left Lope in the infirmary after patching up his face and went to sleep/have sex in the shower. That's when Mother informed them of the alien lifeform (which was the Xenomorph bursting out of Lope). They then showed Lope's corpse burst open when Daniels walked by the infirmary.

 

[Goldenshark]

I enjoyed Covenant, I thought it was on par with Prometheus. It has flaws you can nitpick to death like Prometheus, but as an Alien film I found it much more enjoyable to watch than Alien 3 or Ressurection.

I always find it interesting to see Alien fanboys rip apart the AvP films but the first AvP film is still the third best film in this franchise, in my opinion.

The whole premise of going to a new planet and not wearing a helmet is hilarious beyond belief and sort of lazy by the screenwriters to not come up with any story to explain it, but oh well.

I haven't read this entire thread for all its topics but here are some spoilers:



The mural of the xenomorph in Prometheus proves that engineers genetically engineered them from the black goo long before David (about 2000 years at least) which proves that David is NOT the "creator" of the xenomorph. He just followed the blueprints left behind.

The Walter/David switch was ripped off from Star Trek The Next Generation with Data/Lore and badly telegraphed.

The new CGI xenomorph is not scary at all, they need to go back to an actor in a costume with in-camera visual effects. When the xenomorph was walking around the Covenant it reminded me off the video game footage from Alien: Isolation, it just looks fake.

The AvP films were ripped hard for speeding up the life cycle time of the facehugger to chestburster to full adult xenomorph in hours. Covenant completely obliterates that by speeding that up to mere minutes.

The facehugger use to have to stay on ones face for hours before it could implant its xenomorph embryo. Now it just barely has to touch ones face and away it goes, as in the case of the Covenant's security officer.

I could go on but I won't, I did think it was a fun film to watch because I stopped taking these films too seriously a long time ago.

My personal rank of the films:

God tier
1. Aliens
2. Alien


Good tier
3. Alien vs Predator
4. Covenant
5. Prometheus


Unenjoyable tier
6. AvP: Requiem
7. Alien 3
8. Alien: Ressurection

 

[The Gongshow]

The Xenomorph got aboard the Covenant when the face hugger infected Lope. They all left Lope in the infirmary after patching up his face and went to sleep/have sex in the shower. That's when Mother informed them of the alien lifeform (which was the Xenomorph bursting out of Lope). They then showed Lope's corpse burst open when Daniels walked by the infirmary.

I remember a face hugger got him but wasn't sure if it was on long enough because the other soldier guy managed to cut it off his face, burning Lope in the process. But it does make sense considering another Alien did in fact get on the ship