Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[NickyFotiu]

Is it because people wanna hate him? Cus that's the only hard truth that supports it so far.

I think 20% will only see negatives. 20% will only see positives. I think the middle 60% are people that want the best for Laf (and the team) but also have some concerns based on the first 3 seasons.

 

[Row I Goon]

I think 20% will only see negatives. 20% will only see positives. I think the middle 60% are people that want the best for Laf (and the team) but also have some concerns based on the first 3 seasons.

I’ll take “accurate comments” for $500, Alex

 

[UnSandvich]

Part of him being out of position at times is probably him still adjusting to playing RW after spending most of his career at LW

 

[LokiDog]

So Lafreniere has been good to start the season but people still dumping on him? Why would that be?

I mean, he’s been okay to start the season. He’s had 2 good games and 3 that were exactly the same in every way as everything we’ve seen from him previously. We all hope that he can build off this last game, continue to gain chemistry with his line, continue to gain confidence and keep showing he’s capable of keeping up with the players he’s with and being in the right place to make the right play. 2 points in 5 games isn’t really some “where are the haters now” surge yet. Let me be wrong, please, 35 games from now when he’s putting together his best season. I’d love that. But it we’re going to do the “Ha, what now, doubters?” every time he scores it’s gonna get old quite fast. 167 players had more goals than him last year. If we’re going to do the “awfully quiet today” act every time he scores, it’s gonna be a long year. When he starts consistently stringing games like last night together for 3, 4, 5 games at a time, we can talk about him truly turning a corner. For now, he had a good game and gave us a reason to HOPE there’s more.

 

[ReddestRum]

The whole "it's quiet in here now" is absolutely LOL worthy when Laf's linemates played out of their minds that last game with 5 points between them and then Chytil wheels and deals to get an insane pass to Laf, who to his credit put himself in a great spot for the goal. People are saying he had a great game, but if Chytil doesn't put that pass on his stick and he comes away with no points and no shots (again, because that was his only shot of the game), would it really be a great game?

His first game was great. Played lights out the whole game and disappeared so much the next three games so bad that a pylon would've played better. So let's reign in the "I told you so's".

 

[jerseyjinx94]

It’s good to see some positive comments about Laf. I wonder what exactly he can do to win this fan base over. He gets no points and it’s on him. He scores a goal and it’s only bc of his linemates. Next he’ll have a 3 point night and it’ll be “it’s only he got a secondary assist on the PP” or something. Short of him becoming Nathan MacKinnon, he’ll never win this fanbase over, and he’s probably better off, long term, moving on.

 

[Hug Ben Laf]

The whole "it's quiet in here now" is absolutely LOL worthy when Laf's linemates played out of their minds that last game with 5 points between them and then Chytil wheels and deals to get an insane pass to Laf, who to his credit put himself in a great spot for the goal. People are saying he had a great game, but if Chytil doesn't put that pass on his stick and he comes away with no points and no shots (again, because that was his only shot of the game), would it really be a great game?

His first game was great. Played lights out the whole game and disappeared so much the next three games so bad that a pylon would've played better. So let's reign in the "I told you so's".

Lafreniere forecheck lead to one of Panarins goal, Lafreniere took the puck and made a pass to Chytil and then get himself in position to get the puck back to score the goal, he was not exactly "just there" to get the +

Chytil got his assist because Panarin was able to score, but he could not got himself and Laffy another point then Laffy made that sweet break out pass to him.

 

[OthmannOut]

One fair criticism of his neutral zone and play has been "he's usually out of position."

Also... He likes being on the wrong side of the blue line during zone entries.

Ill keep an eye out for that. I was talking about his play in the offensive zone.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The whole "it's quiet in here now" is absolutely LOL worthy when Laf's linemates played out of their minds that last game with 5 points between them and then Chytil wheels and deals to get an insane pass to Laf, who to his credit put himself in a great spot for the goal. People are saying he had a great game, but if Chytil doesn't put that pass on his stick and he comes away with no points and no shots (again, because that was his only shot of the game), would it really be a great game?

His first game was great. Played lights out the whole game and disappeared so much the next three games so bad that a pylon would've played better. So let's reign in the "I told you so's".

There's no i told ya so's, my comment was that people are gonna hate on him no matter what he does, your comments pretty much verify that because instead of just saying he's started the year well you are trying to put all his improvement on his linemates, like as if he isn't putting himself in better spots on the ice, being quicker on pucks etc. There are no i told ya so's until he is a completed 1st round pick, but he's not gonna flip a switch and become an all star, it's gonna be gradual and he's off to a good start.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I mean, he’s been okay to start the season. He’s had 2 good games and 3 that were exactly the same in every way as everything we’ve seen from him previously. We all hope that he can build off this last game, continue to gain chemistry with his line, continue to gain confidence and keep showing he’s capable of keeping up with the players he’s with and being in the right place to make the right play. 2 points in 5 games isn’t really some “where are the haters now” surge yet. Let me be wrong, please, 35 games from now when he’s putting together his best season. I’d love that. But it we’re going to do the “Ha, what now, doubters?” every time he scores it’s gonna get old quite fast. 167 players had more goals than him last year. If we’re going to do the “awfully quiet today” act every time he scores, it’s gonna be a long year. When he starts consistently stringing games like last night together for 3, 4, 5 games at a time, we can talk about him truly turning a corner. For now, he had a good game and gave us a reason to HOPE there’s more.

That isn't accurate unless you are just point watching. His play has significantly improved from last year. There's been no "awfully quiet in here" from me, I'm just wondering why people are still dumping on him when he's done what everyone was hoping he'd do and started the year on the right foot.

 

[Leonardo87]

Hey Folks,

Discuss Laf and the team, not other members here.

Thanks!

Leo

 

[mas0764]

The whole "it's quiet in here now" is absolutely LOL worthy when Laf's linemates played out of their minds that last game with 5 points between them and then Chytil wheels and deals to get an insane pass to Laf, who to his credit put himself in a great spot for the goal. People are saying he had a great game, but if Chytil doesn't put that pass on his stick and he comes away with no points and no shots (again, because that was his only shot of the game), would it really be a great game?

His first game was great. Played lights out the whole game and disappeared so much the next three games so bad that a pylon would've played better. So let's reign in the "I told you so's".

(1) Baby steps. 2 goals in 5 games is a marked improvement and a pace that would be not embarassing for a former 1OA at least.

(2) I would say he was pretty darn good against Seattle. He caused the turnover that led to another goal, caused the turnover that led to his own goal, and had some nice passes. He remains snakebitten and should probably have at least 2 more assists this season. The assists will come, he's doing a more consistent job (so far) of putting himself in the right position to make an impact and score.

I'm not dropping "I told you so's" but at the same time the Laf hater crowd, which has members who have been known to say things like "Trade him for peanuts," and "get him off this team now," and "he's not good at anything," well, they probably should be looking in the mirror - they were wrong when they said those silly things and even if Lafreniere isn't developing into a stud, they are just as wrong as ever right now. He still very clearly as a path to being a useful player.

That being said, I do agree to an extent that the farther he gets from his draft day, the less likely it is that he's ever going to be that 1OA impact player, which is probably almost a closed book at this point, and we have to hope for more like a Chris Kreider type slow burn to 50 point player and then perhaps someday consistent 30 goal scorer.

Which means we still need our own Jack Hughes or Tim Stutzle or two.

 

[Profet]

I'm not dropping "I told you so's" but at the same time the Laf hater crowd, which has members who have been known to say things like "Trade him for peanuts," and "get him off this team now," and "he's not good at anything," well, they probably should be looking in the mirror - they were wrong when they said those silly things and even if Lafreniere isn't developing into a stud, they are just as wrong as ever right now. He still very clearly as a path to being a useful player.

"they were wrong"

Really? He has had 1 really good game so far this season (first game)... then disappeared for 3 games... then had an ok game 5 driven by his line mates.

He showed some work ethic in game 1 that he rarely, if ever, shows.

I still haven't seen any flashes of skill/talent... so I'm not sure what people were wrong about.

I love seeing Laf get points, I hope Drury uses that in trade negotiations.

I just don't see Laf as someone you win with in your top 6.

 

[bhamill]

The whole "it's quiet in here now" is absolutely LOL worthy when Laf's linemates played out of their minds that last game with 5 points between them and then Chytil wheels and deals to get an insane pass to Laf, who to his credit put himself in a great spot for the goal. People are saying he had a great game, but if Chytil doesn't put that pass on his stick and he comes away with no points and no shots (again, because that was his only shot of the game), would it really be a great game?

His first game was great. Played lights out the whole game and disappeared so much the next three games so bad that a pylon would've played better. So let's reign in the "I told you so's".

I mean you realize Laf created the turnover and got the puck to Chytil who got it back to him after he got himself in position? Right? You’re not at all trying to minimize Laf’s play for the sake of a narrative, are you?

 

[bhamill]

"they were wrong"

Really? He has had 1 really good game so far this season (first game)... then disappeared for 3 games... then had an ok game 5 driven by his line mates.

He showed some work ethic in game 1 that he rarely, if ever, shows.

I still haven't seen any flashes of skill/talent... so I'm not sure what people were wrong about.

I love seeing Laf get points, I hope Drury uses that in trade negotiations.

I just don't see Laf as someone you win with in your top 6.

Two of the four goals line the Pan-Fil-Laf line scored absolutely don’t happen without Laf’s contribution. And he created some other chances that weren’t capitalized on. He wasn’t just a passenger. That’s ridiculous.

 

[Levitate]

I don't think there's a ton to add to this thread until we're maybe 20 games into the season. My hope would be that the line sticks for that long and Lafreniere develops some comfort and chemistry enough to start putting up the EV points and looking like the skilled player we hope he can be

If he doesn't then things won't be looking good IMO. Been pretty patient but at some point you gotta get results if you're put in the right position

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

That was a nice goal. Found some space in tight quarters, got open, gave Fil a target, and then just let it rip. He needs to play on instinct.

 

[IDvsEGO]

That was a nice goal. Found some space in tight quarters, got open, gave Fil a target, and then just let it rip. He needs to play on instinct.

Also the whole, stealing the pass part of it too.

 

[Lua]

I mean you realize Laf created the turnover and got the puck to Chytil who got it back to him after he got himself in position? Right? You’re not at all trying to minimize Laf’s play for the sake of a narrative, are you?

It's nice that he created a turnover with smart forechecking positioning, and I would love to see more of that, but it's not exactly what detractors are referring to. It's nice that he has a knack for capitalizing, but I desperately need to see him show more with the puck on his stick.

Accelerate toward open ice while carrying, cut to the inside and rip a shot, thread a nice pass through traffic, create a shot in a tight area, separate from the checker with possession more often, anything to show he has offensive instincts and can attack dangerous areas of the ice.

These other kids around the league create chances out of nothing—every game. He needs to make more plays out there.

 

[bhamill]

It's nice that he created a turnover with smart forechecking positioning, and I would love to see more of that, but it's not exactly what detractors are referring to. It's nice that he has a knack for capitalizing, but I desperately need to see him show more with the puck on his stick.

Accelerate toward open ice while carrying, cut to the inside and rip a shot, thread a nice pass through traffic, create a shot in a tight area, separate from the checker with possession more often, anything to show he has offensive instincts and can attack dangerous areas of the ice.

These other kids around the league create chances out of nothing—every game. He needs to make more plays out there.

Yeah, but when you initiate the sequence you AREN’T just capitalizing. His forecheck cause d the turnover on Pan’s goal (in game two as well)… who capitalized there? On his goal, he stole the puck and got it to Fil, then capitalized on the feed by getting to the right spot to capitalize. He’s creating chances, not just capitalizing/finishing. In fact if Fil and others would have capitalized on chances he created, like the breakaway he sprung Fil on that rang off the post, he’d be over a ppg right now, even with the bad Nashville game. And not for nothing, finishing is obviously the bottom line. How pretty or flashy your goal is is irrelevant. Sure flashy is more fun, but counts exactly the same.

 

[TGWL]

the haters and losers are furious

I don't understand. I mean, we don't want to see him fail. We criticize him when he stinks. We give him props when he has a good game. What we want is consistently. We don't want to see his feet stop working when he gets the puck. It's simple. Continue moving your feet. This was never a top speed issue.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I don't understand. I mean, we don't want to see him fail. We criticize him when he stinks. We give him props when he has a good game. What we want is consistently. We don't want to see his feet stop working when he gets the puck. It's simple. Continue moving your feet. This was never a top speed issue.

That was one of the knocks on him coming into the draft. One of the only ones. Concern about his pace of play.

What that really translated to in the NHL was not moving his feet when he got the puck. To me thats a big confidence thing. Its mostly 1on1 plays and transitions through zones. Its easy to close him off. He is better at it deeper in the zone, he is a little more slippery on the walls on the forecheck - but when there is actually some space to get things moving and hes meeting a defender 1 on 1 he stops skating and looks to defer, dump or just gets bodied off a majority of the time.

I have seen some encouraging things with his skating so far. It does appear he has a little more jump and quickness. He just needs to translate that to when the puck is on his stick.

 

[mas0764]

"they were wrong" Really?

Yes, everyone who said he's not good at anything and should be traded away for peanuts was wrong.

There is plenty to criticize and his positive performance so far this season doesn't change a lot of those valid criticisms.

But the hyperbole was always ridiculous and yeah you are one of the ones who is kinda guilty of it.

I still haven't seen any flashes of skill/talent... so I'm not sure what people were wrong about.

You are erecting a straw man.

What I said was "the people who said he's not good at anything are wrong."

He has been playing so far this season at a level where you see the player he can become. Being physical, forcing turnovers, etc. It may never be 1OA dynamic but you see a useful player in there.

So anyone who said he'll never be one is wrong.

I just don't see Laf as someone you win with in your top 6.

You're closing your eyes pretty tight then.

Now, if you said, it still benefits us more to package him for a higher-end long term piece, I'm listening. But the "he sucks at everything" argument is just not gonna hold up.

 

[mas0764]

It's nice that he created a turnover with smart forechecking positioning, and I would love to see more of that, but it's not exactly what detractors are referring to. It's nice that he has a knack for capitalizing, but I desperately need to see him show more with the puck on his stick.

But this is a moving target, dude.

I'm not trying to put words in YOUR mouth because I don't know what you've said on this topic previously, but lots of people maintain he sucks and is a total bust, he's "not good at anything," he'll never be a first line player, etc. THAT is the narrative that needs to be countered, and frankly, it IS countered rather easily.

Yeah, I think we all agree that we wants to see him show more with the puck on his stick and look like that legit 1OA we thought we were getting, but if he plays most games like he played against Buffalo, Seattle, and even Arizona, he's had very good advanced stats, he's scored 2 goals (pacing for 30+), and probably should have an assist or two at least. This would be top 6 production for sure. It's a useful player even if he's never an elite one.

Let's see how it goes the rest of the season, but the people declaring him a total bust sounded foolish when they made such declarations and they look more foolish now than ever.

Keep in mind, this is from someone (myself) who just flipped out the other day that he doesn't look improved enough that I think he'll ever be elite. He looks like a support player (which has always been how I've felt about Kreider as a top liner) and not a play-driver or lead scoring option. In which case, I despair for our future and think we still need a couple of those young lead-dog types. But to say Laf is not even going to be a top 6 player sounds stupid.

 

[Profet]

Yes, everyone who said he's not good at anything and should be traded away for peanuts was wrong.

There is plenty to criticize and his positive performance so far this season doesn't change a lot of those valid criticisms.

But the hyperbole was always ridiculous and yeah you are one of the ones who is kinda guilty of it.



You are erecting a straw man.

What I said was "the people who said he's not good at anything are wrong."

He has been playing so far this season at a level where you see the player he can become. Being physical, forcing turnovers, etc. It may never be 1OA dynamic but you see a useful player in there.

So anyone who said he'll never be one is wrong.


You're closing your eyes pretty tight then.

Now, if you said, it still benefits us more to package him for a higher-end long term piece, I'm listening. But the "he sucks at everything" argument is just not gonna hold up.

My position has been that Laf's value on the trade market today is far greater than his value will be to the team at his peak.

This season's performance doesn't change my mind.