Alexis Lafreniere Or Jack Hughes?

[ole ole]

Lafreniere is a rather easy pick for me. He looks better than Hughes did in his D+1 year and he was significantly more hyped as a 1st overall. More physical, bigger and better goalscoring ability are also factors to be considered. Hughes was spoonfeed PP minutes last season where as Lafreniere hasnt gotten a single PP point yet.

Who's fault is it that Laf hasn't got a PP point yet. It's not like he hasn't been given a chance. When you get over 100 minutes on the PP and don't produce a single point there's an issue.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

If you subtract Lafreniere's "empty net" goals this year, he'd have zero goals.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Who's fault is it that Laf hasn't got a PP point yet. It's not like he hasn't been given a chance. When you get over 100 minutes on the PP and don't produce a single point there's an issue.

You’re quoting a post that’s going on a year old

 

[BStinson]

If you subtract Lafreniere's "empty net" goals this year, he'd have zero goals.

Not sure where you’re pulling this from but it’s wildly inaccurate.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You can still change your vote?

Lafreniere 200 votes (62.7%) and Hughes 119 votes (37.3%) atm.

1. Always was close. It’s been viewed that way going back to when these guys were like 15 or 16. I’m not sure a small sample should be changing anyone’s mind too drastically.

2. I might actually go with Hughes, saying that. Not a huge gap at the time. Still don’t think it’s huge. However, Hughes is producing, and Lafreniere wasn’t as NHL ready as expected. Neither was Hughes, but he already got criticized for that, now Lafreniere is getting that from most.

3. I think it must be said that Hughes has walked into the NHL with top line, PP1 minutes and Lafreniere is like 9th forward, sometimes PP2 minutes. Very different situations and developed differently. Anyone who claims to be sure who will be better at this point doesn’t know what they are saying.

 

[RememberTheName]

Not sure where you’re pulling this from but it’s wildly inaccurate.

It's more or less a joke that every one of Laf's goals this year has been scored on what is essentially an open net if you go back and watch them. He hasn't really had to beat a goalie yet, as every one of his goals has essentially been gift wrapped by the guy getting the assist. On one hand, you can say its concerning that Laf hasn't scored a goal yet that he has had to really beat a goalie on, but on the other hand, you can say that Laf has sound positioning around the net which is getting him wide open all the time.

I'm not going to act like a Laf expect, but I am just explaining where the remark came from.

 

[Box Score Watcher]

Another thread for rangers and devils fans to argue over “which number one draft pick will be less disappointing”. Hooray. Btw I choose lafreniere, but it’s closer than I would have thought a couple years ago

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Another thread for rangers and devils fans to argue over “which number one draft pick will be less disappointing”. Hooray. Btw I choose lafreniere, but it’s closer than I would have thought a couple years ago

I don't understand how anyone could possibly choose Lafreniere at this point.

 

[Box Score Watcher]

I don't understand how anyone could possibly choose Lafreniere at this point.

Is it the “going forward” part of the question that has you stumped? I believe it means “in the future”

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Is it the “going forward” part of the question that has you stumped? I believe it means “in the future”

At this point, I don't know how anyone could take Lafreniere going forward. He's shown absolutely nothing to be excited about.

 

[Ignite111]

Ranger fans are so funny with Lafs playing time, “like a 9th forward” “sometimes PP2 minutes”. They love these excuses.

So are the Rangers trying to keep him at the bottom of the lineup with no PP time? Do they want their #1 pick as their 9th forward? Or……is he not producing or playing well enough to move his way up the lineup? Opening day he was on 1st line LW with Kreider on the right and Zib in the middle right? (Which is better than anyone Hughes is playing with) Then did the rangers staff decide I think he’s doing so well on the first line that we should move him to our third line and play him 12 minutes a game as basically a 9th forward.

Reality is if he played better and produced he would get more ice time.

This should be all Hughes right now

 

[ole ole]

You’re quoting a post that’s going on a year old

And he still hasn't got a PP pt.

 

[Favin]

You can still change your vote?

Lafreniere 200 votes (62.7%) and Hughes 119 votes (37.3%) atm.

Since this was re-posted:

Lafreniere 5 (10%)
Hughes 45 (90%)

oof.

 

[Favin]

3. I think it must be said that Hughes has walked into the NHL with top line, PP1 minutes and Lafreniere is like 9th forward, sometimes PP2 minutes. Very different situations and developed differently. Anyone who claims to be sure who will be better at this point doesn’t know what they are saying.

Lafreniere's most common linemates in his rookie year were Zibanejad and Buchnevich.
Hughes played with Simmons the most until he was traded.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Lafreniere's most common linemates in his rookie year were Zibanejad and Buchnevich.
Hughes played with Simmons the most until he was traded.

With all due respect, you don’t know what you are talking about if that’s the stat you are going to throw out. There’s a Jets fan on this website that always brings up how in prior years Panarin’s second most common linemate was Zibanejad.

The reason those stats are so misleading is that those guys probably haven’t even played 10 games as linemates during their time as teammates. The Rangers under Quinn rotated lines a lot to start games and he did so a lot during games. There were very few players that stuck together, which is why these most common linemates stats for the Rangers under Quinn are bogus. There were no most common linemates for Lafreniere. He moved around, mostly on the third line, and also some time in the top six. I can assure you that Zibanejad and Buchnevich’s regular LW was Kreider, not Lafreniere.

Lafreniere played 13:53 his rookie season, and Hughes played 15:52. To act like there’s no difference in two minutes of ice time is ridiculous. Hughes was 5th in TOI among forwards and Lafreniere 8th. If you further break down that Hughes was PP1 a lot of the season, Lafreniere at points was PP2 and at other points not on the PP. That’s your difference in their stats. Lafreniere actually had better ES stats. Lafreniere still somehow doesn’t have a PP point in his career.

Don’t act like Hughes didn’t walk into the league with preferred usage, while Lafreniere isn’t playing less than 13 minutes per game this season on the third line of a playoff team.

 

[bsu]

I've said this even when Jack Hughes didn't look like a NHL player in the NHL. He is going to be a superstar. Hughes and Zegras are going to be insane beginning next season and just get better and better, they are both finally not built like 16 year olds but now 18 year olds. Wait until they get a little stronger and get a little more experience sky is the limit for both.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

"Preferred usage" is being on a competent team with structure and veterans that can insulate you, which New Jersey hasn't been to this point. It's a team of sub-25 year olds trying to build.

In this case, playing 13 minutes a night and on the second power-play unit with seasoned, notable scorers like Zibanejad is a hell of a lot better than what Hughes has had. Lafreniere started on the top line this year and played himself off. It's hardly a case of not being given opportunities so much as not taking them.

 

[HyperX]

This argument doesn’t work.

Hughes gets some of the most absurdly favourable usage in the league (19 minutes a game, with 72% offensive zone starts and 3+ minutes of PP1). His most common linemate has been Kyle Palmieri.

Lafreniere is a year of hockey experience younger and started his first professional season without having played games for like 9 months. He’s averaged 12 minutes a game with 55% offensive zone starts and does not play on the powerplay. His most common linemates have been Chytil and Kakko.

And guess what? Their P/60 are identical.

Something something 'I watch stats not games'

 

[Ignite111]

With all due respect, you don’t know what you are talking about if that’s the stat you are going to throw out. There’s a Jets fan on this website that always brings up how in prior years Panarin’s second most common linemate was Zibanejad.

The reason those stats are so misleading is that those guys probably haven’t even played 10 games as linemates during their time as teammates. The Rangers under Quinn rotated lines a lot to start games and he did so a lot during games. There were very few players that stuck together, which is why these most common linemates stats for the Rangers under Quinn are bogus. There were no most common linemates for Lafreniere. He moved around, mostly on the third line, and also some time in the top six. I can assure you that Zibanejad and Buchnevich’s regular LW was Kreider, not Lafreniere.

Lafreniere played 13:53 his rookie season, and Hughes played 15:52. To act like there’s no difference in two minutes of ice time is ridiculous. Hughes was 5th in TOI among forwards and Lafreniere 8th. If you further break down that Hughes was PP1 a lot of the season, Lafreniere at points was PP2 and at other points not on the PP. That’s your difference in their stats. Lafreniere actually had better ES stats. Lafreniere still somehow doesn’t have a PP point in his career.

Don’t act like Hughes didn’t walk into the league with preferred usage, while Lafreniere isn’t playing less than 13 minutes per game this season on the third line of a playoff team.

Why is he playing 3rd line minutes?

If Hughes was on the rangers right now would he get more than 13 minutes a game? Just curious of your thoughts?

 

[Hisch13r]

Something something 'I watch stats not games'

It's not even "watching stats". It's misinterpreting stats. Literally NO player has ever had a 72% Dzone or Ozone start. It's absurd people actually still believe that shit and don't realize that neutral zone and especially on the fly starts exist.

 

[Favin]

With all due respect, you don’t know what you are talking about if that’s the stat you are going to throw out. There’s a Jets fan on this website that always brings up how in prior years Panarin’s second most common linemate was Zibanejad.

The reason those stats are so misleading is that those guys probably haven’t even played 10 games as linemates during their time as teammates. The Rangers under Quinn rotated lines a lot to start games and he did so a lot during games. There were very few players that stuck together, which is why these most common linemates stats for the Rangers under Quinn are bogus. There were no most common linemates for Lafreniere. He moved around, mostly on the third line, and also some time in the top six. I can assure you that Zibanejad and Buchnevich’s regular LW was Kreider, not Lafreniere.

Lafreniere played 13:53 his rookie season, and Hughes played 15:52. To act like there’s no difference in two minutes of ice time is ridiculous. Hughes was 5th in TOI among forwards and Lafreniere 8th. If you further break down that Hughes was PP1 a lot of the season, Lafreniere at points was PP2 and at other points not on the PP. That’s your difference in their stats. Lafreniere actually had better ES stats. Lafreniere still somehow doesn’t have a PP point in his career.

Don’t act like Hughes didn’t walk into the league with preferred usage, while Lafreniere isn’t playing less than 13 minutes per game this season on the third line of a playoff team.

Lafreniere is not expected to take minutes from Panarin or Kreider, but part of the reason for his lower TOI is that he hasn't earned more minutes. Also, Hughes often gets shadowed and faces top defensive units. Lafreniere does not. Which only makes the Hughes>Laf argument stronger. Lafreniere doesn't get the opportunity to play with top-line play-drivers. Hughes IS the top-line play-driver.

But my original point was that Hughes was often paired with Simmons, who is pretty terrible. So those 2 extra min/game where probably mostly on backcheck anyway.

 

[Favin]

Something something 'I watch stats not games'

Where do people come up with these? Lafreniere and Hughes have "identical" P/60?

Hughes' P/60 is almost 3x Lafs.

 

[Hisch13r]

Where do people come up with these? Lafreniere and Hughes have "identical" P/60?

Hughes' P/60 is almost 3x Lafs.

It was commented at a point last year where they did have similar production but also production shouldn't be the only thing you look at lol. Even if production is the primary thing you can focus on and the players have similar production then you should be looking at the rest of their games where it was very clear which one was better.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Lafreniere is not expected to take minutes from Panarin or Kreider, but part of the reason for his lower TOI is that he hasn't earned more minutes. Also, Hughes often gets shadowed and faces top defensive units. Lafreniere does not. Which only makes the Hughes>Laf argument stronger. Lafreniere doesn't get the opportunity to play with top-line play-drivers. Hughes IS the top-line play-driver.

But my original point was that Hughes was often paired with Simmons, who is pretty terrible. So those 2 extra min/game where probably mostly on backcheck anyway.

Sorry, not buying the he hasn’t earned minutes stuff. Maybe he’s not doing great in a small role, but most players with his pedigree don’t need to do that. Hughes is an example of that. Handed the role because he was a 1OA, and I don’t disagree with it. Rangers may be slightly less situated for that, but there’s never any excuse for the 1OA to not at all times have a PP role. And this season, Gallant is simply doing a bad job of developing the younger players. He’s a veteran coach that loves his mediocre veterans. That was one thing Vegas fans warned us about. The Rangers are incredibly top heavy and would seriously benefit from adding some depth. The answer to that is not less than 13 minutes for Lafreniere.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Sorry, not buying the he hasn’t earned minutes stuff. Maybe he’s not doing great in a small role, but most players with his pedigree don’t need to do that. Hughes is an example of that. Handed the role because he was a 1OA, and I don’t disagree with it. Rangers may be slightly less situated for that, but there’s never any excuse for the 1OA to not at all times have a PP role. And this season, Gallant is simply doing a bad job of developing the younger players. He’s a veteran coach that loves his mediocre veterans. That was one thing Vegas fans warned us about. The Rangers are incredibly top heavy and would seriously benefit from adding some depth. The answer to that is not less than 13 minutes for Lafreniere.

What has Lafreniere done to earn those minutes?

Even when he wasn't producing, Hughes was be creating a ton of chances and doing a lot of positive things. The same can be said of Kakko this year.

But Lafreniere rarely does anything worth mentioning, besides getting easily separated from the puck and scoring into wide open nets. I do like his positioning around the net, but aside from that it's hard to think of a single thing he does well, and it's hard to see a real path for him to becoming a 1st line winger.