Can you verify this. I've never heard this. When was this offered.
I would have taken only stepan for spezza and Neil.
Confirmed with Link: Alex Chiasson traded for Patrick Sieloff
- Thread starter Ouroboros
- Start date
Can you verify this. I've never heard this. When was this offered.
I would have taken only stepan for spezza and Neil.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
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In the end, he is held accountable imo. Melnyk may have mandated that we contend, but it was Murray's job to convince Melnyk that wasn't in his or the team's best interest (assuming he believed that).
It's Murray's job to balance long term and short term needs. IMO, he went with short term over long term which is a mistake for a bubble team.
Sens of Anarchy
Registered User
- Jul 9, 2013
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I agree with that. But I'm sure Melnyk is probably a difficult person to convince, especially when revenue is involved.
Murray made the trade to acquire Chiasson, which is what I was referring to.
I suspect Dorion is still looking for a Defenseman who can play in the NHL to take Wiercioch's spot. I think Borowiecki and Wideman are now viewed as not sufficient for the third pairing. The first two pairs are OK. I think an upgrade of the third pair would be a good thing. I doubt that Dorion will have the budget to acquire a better third pairing.
yogibear
Registered User
By the way, when was the last trade that Murray won? I just can't recall since the Turris vs rundblad.
BonkTastic
ಠ_ಠ
... Arguably the Lehner-White deal as well, depending on how that plays out. Impossible to tell as of right now.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
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I'm not really totally sold in pahneuf trade. In a years two years time I think we would all just rather the cap space
saskriders
Can't Hold Leads
FolignoQuantumLeap
Don't Hold The Door
The Phaneuf trade looks even better now with how much teams are demanding for defensemen and what the FA market is currently. If the Leafs had hung onto him awhile longer I think they would have gotten a really good return this summer from a team like Edmonton.
FolignoQuantumLeap
Don't Hold The Door
This is a good point. I just hope it doesn't get us in troublE in a few years. Cuz I'm not sure anyone will take him off our hands
UnHappyDude
Fire Dorion
- Jan 11, 2011
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What Chiasson needs is a surgeon, not a coach. He needs news legs to skate faster and a new brain to learn how to play the game properly without putting his team in trouble every time he's on the ice.
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
I am not saying that the return would have been worse guaranteed if we waited at the deadline, but like you said yourself, it could have been lower with an injury (which happened a lot with Spezza), impossible to know.
Cowen is a failed top prospect, injuries derailed his career. All that Murray could have done better is to give up on him earlier and get something of value. But in the end, he was part of the return for Phaneuf so not that dramatic. I feel like Cowen has both been unlucky and entitled because of early junior success. Sucks for him but they can't all succeed.
Alfie's situation was a mess and I would have been mad if he was younger and had more years left in him, but he was like 40 or 41 y/o and only played 1 more season... We were never sure in his last few seasons when he was going to retire, as I was prepared for his retirement so I really didn't see it as a big deal as most people here, even though Alfie is the reason I became a Sens fan from Montreal. Sucks that he didn't play 100% of his career with the Sens, but other than that, no big deal for me. Happens with most players who do not finish their career with "their" team, like Brodeur for example.
Spezza was a valuable asset for us but NOT as much as Sens would have hoped. 31 y/o center making big money, now producing around 60 pts per season, injury prone with back problems, good offensively but under average defensively, but most importantly 1 year before being UFA and made it known he was NOT re-signing in Ottawa and even asked for a trade... We did get GOOD value for him at first in the deal with Nashville, but it didn't went through so we had to settle with the best option among teams on Spezza list... Pretty sure nobody wanted to deal with that distraction all season. Melnyk probably gave the order to Murray to "trade Spezza before next season"
Based on those facts, I am not too disappointed with a return of Nick Paul, Gabriel Gagne and Alex Chiasson (although it's unfortunate that he didn't perform better for Ottawa). Now if Paul and Gagne both bust it would suck, but as the same time, it still wouldn't be that much of a big deal for me, as we only lost 1 YEAR of Spezza, who could have been injured for all season after a few games.
Note : Chiasson was a 8.0C prospect on HF. Not saying HF is gospel but he was seen as a quality prospect. He came into the league and scored 35 points, which was very good for a rookie. He then had 26 pts in 76 games in his sophomore season which was still decent but unfortunately, it went the wrong way last year. Conclusion : Chiasson was projecting to be at least a decent 3rd liner. I wouldn't be surprised if he finds a bit of 3rd line success in Calgary
To me, worse Murray moves are by far his coaching hirings and too much time fixing goaltending before Anderson. Other than that, people will say the Bishop trade, but forget conveniently that he acquired for just a 2nd round pick a bit before.
Hey Yogi
Rundblad vs Turris yeah but what about :
Elliott vs Anderson? (trading a goalie done with the team for a quality #1 for several years)
Silfverberg vs Ryan? (trading a 3rd liner and 2 young assets (that are somewhat busting) for a 1st liner or at worst top-6 forward)
Foligno vs Methot? (trading a middle-sixer (means your 4th to 9th best forward, depending on the year) for a #3 D-man)
Lehner + Legwand vs 21st (White)? (trading a goalie not able to establish himself with the team and a cap dump for a 1st round pick in the deepest draft in a very long time)
Phaneuf deal (getting a #2 D-man for a prospect and a 2nd, while dumping 3 contracts)
Of course, I don't see trades as win or lose, as both teams are more trying to fix a position of need with a position of strenght in reality, but those are trades that benefited the Sens IMO.
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SixthSens
RIP Fugu
- Dec 5, 2007
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Not going to get in to this, but the packages were quite similar actually. Russell did not return more than Spezza.
Sure, the value of the pieces in the Russell trade might have turned out a bit better than ours, but Chiasson still had decent potential at the time of the deal, Paul still has the potential to be an impact piece for us, Guptill was a wild card (flopped), and the 2nd turned in to Gagne (still developing).
Calgary got Jokipakka (similar situation Chiasson was in before he was traded but at a different position), Pollock (I'll consider him on par with value of Paul), and turned their pick in to Dillon Dube.
Even if the packages where similar it's still pretty bad since Spezza is much better than Russel.
Whatever though, at least Dorion got rid of Chiasson
The Lewler
GOAT BUDGET AINEC
How anyone is looking forward to playing vs Weber regularly instead of Subban is odd to me.
Noone was afraid to play PK.
Weber is a different story. I hope he doesn't knock Anderson out again with a slapper.
Noone was afraid to play PK.
Weber is a different story. I hope he doesn't knock Anderson out again with a slapper.
BonkTastic
ಠ_ಠ
Short term, makes the Habs harder to play against. Long term, not so much.
I like this trade for the 2018-19 Sens. Hopefully that's when our window to really and truly contend opens up, and it's one less team in the Atlantic who poses a threat.
