Alain Vigneault will be the first coach fired this season

TheKingPin

Registered User
Nov 16, 2005
20,637
10,095
Philadelphia, PA
I think he's flawed but good overall. Coaches wear out their welcomes though, even good coaches.

Good example with the Devils. You could read more about the specific woes with AV on the NYR board, they're varied depending on who you talk to and what's important to them.

The man defense he plays has caused problems from the start and they're still there. The issues have traditionally been worse to start the season, though in some years past the offense came out insane and covered it up. In general though, it makes NYR's D easy to pull out of position, especially easy to lure behind the net, leaving the crease wide open. In terms of taking advantage of the D, let's just say he had Holden as McDonagh's partner last game. Holden, who was the 7D out of camp, was put on the first pairing in a game that they'd end up 1-5 if they lost. It's just madness - the pairs switch all the time, good players sit if they make single mistakes in attempts to push the play, bad players like Holden get long leashes and promotions.

On offense, the main issues Imo are his utter refusal to work on coaching a possession game, his inability to shift tactics if an opponent solves one, and his tendency to turtle with even the slimmest of leads. If NYR don't score off the rush, they have no plan B, they just keep trying the same thing over and over until time is up. If they get up by one goal even in a game where they've been out chanced terribly, they go into a shell and let the other team shoot at them until the game is over, often letting them tie and eventually win as NYR desperately try to go from laid back defense back to trying to score.

The team worked in spite of these problems for the most part, but it' just not working anymore. Like I said, every coach wears out their welcome eventually and he's worn his out pretty obviously imo.
Thanks. That sounds frustrating as hell to a knowledgeable fan. Some similarities to Hakstol, this year they have a new assistant coach that runs the PP but you can see his influence on 5-5 play. We also used to be rush dependent and predictable. It's horrible for the PP too. From the the pure frustration this causes, good luck and hopefully it ends one way or another. This division is rough. Another 5 games like this and it may be the season already.
 

haveandare

Registered User
Jul 2, 2009
18,929
7,462
New York
Thanks. That sounds frustrating as hell to a knowledgeable fan. Some similarities to Hakstol, this year they have a new assistant coach that runs the PP but you can see his influence on 5-5 play. We also used to be rush dependent and predictable. It's horrible for the PP too. From the the pure frustration this causes, good luck and hopefully it ends one way or another. This division is rough. Another 5 games like this and it may be the season already.
Thanks. Yeah, it's pretty frustrating. The oddest thing to me is, as I said, these issues aren't really new but for whatever reason they're suddenly crippling this season. Not sure what exactly changed to make them so, so much worse. I guess the downgrades to the roster and just the addition of time under the same coach and system add with these issues to make them a lot more pronounced.

And yeah this division is insane. Hopefully they'll move on from AV quickly and the guys will have that shiny new coach jolt with Ruff, who is unfortunately the most likely to take over in the interim, and then find a new coach next year.
 

Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
Jan 21, 2011
142,897
113,900
NYC
Hey Machinehead what do you think of AV latest moves check out daily faceoff

Oh it's glorious.

Not only is he continuing to churn out new D pairs, but now he's nuked the forward corps as well.

Desharnais 2C, Buchnevich 4th line, KZB broken up again, Miller still at wing, Vesey and Hayes still together so we can all get polio - raise your hand if you're f***ing surprised.

Oh and as far as Shattenkirk being on the third pair, you know who's not surprised? Keith f***ing Yandle.
 

biturbo19

Registered User
Jul 13, 2010
25,768
10,822
I think he's flawed but good overall. Coaches wear out their welcomes though, even good coaches.

Good example with the Devils. You could read more about the specific woes with AV on the NYR board, they're varied depending on who you talk to and what's important to them.

The man defense he plays has caused problems from the start and they're still there. The issues have traditionally been worse to start the season, though in some years past the offense came out insane and covered it up. In general though, it makes NYR's D easy to pull out of position, especially easy to lure behind the net, leaving the crease wide open. In terms of taking advantage of the D, let's just say he had Holden as McDonagh's partner last game. Holden, who was the 7D out of camp, was put on the first pairing in a game that they'd end up 1-5 if they lost. It's just madness - the pairs switch all the time, good players sit if they make single mistakes in attempts to push the play, bad players like Holden get long leashes and promotions.

On offense, the main issues Imo are his utter refusal to work on coaching a possession game, his inability to shift tactics if an opponent solves one, and his tendency to turtle with even the slimmest of leads. If NYR don't score off the rush, they have no plan B, they just keep trying the same thing over and over until time is up. If they get up by one goal even in a game where they've been out chanced terribly, they go into a shell and let the other team shoot at them until the game is over, often letting them tie and eventually win as NYR desperately try to go from laid back defense back to trying to score.

The team worked in spite of these problems for the most part, but it' just not working anymore. Like I said, every coach wears out their welcome eventually and he's worn his out pretty obviously imo.

Sounds a lot like the point where he'd become "stale" in Vancouver as well. I think he can be one of the better coaches in the league, but he has a pretty clear shelf-life. When it comes to fan tolerance as well.

If he is sent packing, i think he'd be a terrific fit for Winnipeg. That's a team with the sort of players to execute an AV system well, and where he'd obviously be a fresh face again. Problem being, particularly in the defensive systems as you mentioned...there's always a significant adjustment period with AV hockey, because it is a bit unique. Which means he's probably not a coach you want to dabble with as an in-season hire. At least, not if you want to do much winning in that season.
 

biturbo19

Registered User
Jul 13, 2010
25,768
10,822
The issues always reflected in the defensive zone and now they're creeping into the offensive zone, which is what everyone sees, but the issue is really the neutral zone.

AV thinks it doesn't exist. He doesn't coach it, and there's no system for it whatsoever. No zone entries allowed, no zone denials allowed, no disrupting allowed, no passing allowed. On offense, you skate to the line and dump it in (and our chase is often dead before it starts because teams are expecting this now). On defense, you do nothing and just back up until the other team has already gained the zone.

The neutral zone is not a thing. Don't coach it, don't play it, don't bother with it. AV hockey.

This sounds more like a description of a Lindy Ruff team to me, rather than an AV team. Which makes me wonder...

I wouldn't say AV doesn't think the Neutral Zone exists. His foundation as a coach has been trapping the heck out of that neutral zone and counterpunching. He just doesn't coach his teams to get cute with play there. It's a no frills, get it done as quick and straightforward as possible sort of philosophy.

He hasn't ever really been one to believe in "coaching" offense. He'll set up breakouts and transition play...and what happens from there has largely been put on his players' shoulders. Which is fine if you've got the players to flesh out that part of the game on their own. However, unsurprisingly going to be hurt a bit when over the past couple years, the GM has moved out the teams two most creative offensive centers. Need to have the horses to paint in that largely blank component of AV hockey, especially down the middle where his system tends to be pretty demanding...and just on paper even, the Rangers don't seem to have that anymore. Probably skirting the line with Stepan as the top guy there, and now...a Hayes-Zibanejad-Desharnais lineup down the middle just isn't good enough to execute. It's a lot of straight-line players who could probably use a bit more offensive structure to work within at this point. There are few systems where that's going to be adequate strength down the middle to be a contender though.

Have no doubts that AV has grown stale by virtue of having been there for quite a while now, and he definitely has a shelf life. Combined with losing some important pieces and probably giving AV a bit too much of what he thinks he wants, rather than what he probably really needs. But the Rangers have been a pretty cobbled together team for years now, and he's pretty consistently milked a lot out of a group that hasn't had a lot of dominant household names, and has dealt with some pretty glaring holes in the lineup, and expensive boat anchors particularly on the blueline. He's still a very good coach...just probably not the right fit for the Rangers anymore. It happens.
 

rent free

Registered User
Apr 6, 2015
20,427
6,114
shattenkirk is a real idiot for not signing the 7yr, 42 mil deal with tampa at deadline.

i remember when he joined the rangers, he said 'they're on the verge of something special here". boy was he right lol
 

These Are The Days

Oh no! We suck again!!
May 17, 2014
34,450
20,205
Tampa Bay
shattenkirk is a real idiot for not signing the 7yr, 42 mil deal with tampa at deadline.

i remember when he joined the rangers, he said 'they're on the verge of something special here". boy was he right lol
And you know what? That big lug passing on us was the best thing that ever could've happened to us

Give me 7 years of Sergachev with his prime in that time over Shattenkirk who will be long past his when that deal ends.
 

ColdSteel2

Registered User
Aug 27, 2010
34,759
3,578
And you know what? That big lug passing on us was the best thing that ever could've happened to us

Maybe. If he comes in last year, you guys may have won the Cup though. He would have gotten you into the playoffs with a lava hot Kucherov and a fresh Stamkos.
 

haveandare

Registered User
Jul 2, 2009
18,929
7,462
New York
shattenkirk is a real idiot for not signing the 7yr, 42 mil deal with tampa at deadline.

i remember when he joined the rangers, he said 'they're on the verge of something special here". boy was he right lol
Yes, should have signed with the geniuses that are paying Callahan and Girardi nearly 9 million dollars in 2017.
 

CanuckGame39

Registered User
Oct 13, 2006
4,145
3,761
Vancouver, B.C.
Just lol. Rangers fans think Vigneault is a bad coach. I would ****ing kill to have AV back in Vancouver. I wasn't on board with his firing in the 1st place.
 

Batrous

Registered User
May 4, 2016
842
280
I think the Ranger's challenges go far beyond the coach. Given they traded Stepan* (top 2 centre if not their top centre) in the offseason along with Raanta*, they have Pavelec as the backup, and finally all of the changes on the blue line. Oh right and Lundqvist is not playing at an elite level (average numbers in terms of save % and goals against) and it's not surprising that the Ranger's are struggling the way they are.

*: edit I messed up the names, sorry about that
 

SpookyTsuki

Registered User
Dec 3, 2014
15,916
671
Maybe this is the year they finally suck like most have been saying the past couple years.
 

Howie Hodge

Zombie Woof
Sep 16, 2017
4,427
4,038
Buffalo, NY
Housley??

Not at this stage of the game. The team was horrible against The Islanders and The Devils. Not good, but not terrible against San Jose. Special teams killed them at LA. They were decent against The Ducks.

Unless the team plays poorly for a sustained stretch, Housley is safe.


Guessing AV is your leading candidate to go first.

Bergevin probably goes before Julien in Montreal.

McLellan goes if The Oilers don't turn it on.

Peter DeBoer may be in trouble in San Jose.

But it's too early; and 20 games in we could be looking at Blashill or Maurice as candidates.

Maybe do a poll around the 20 - 25 game mark.
 

brokenhole

Registered User
Aug 12, 2015
1,135
408
Losing a generational talent in Fanner Glass probably has messed A.V. up more than you know.
 

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