Player Discussion Alain Vigneault (MOD: Re-read rules 13-15)

[NYRKindms]

He inherited a complete mess from Tortorella and managed to turn the Rangers 180 degrees into one of the league's most potent offenses, which was an amazing turn around. Somewhere along the way he got married to Tanner Glass and forgot to stress D from the D-men while he was stressing everyone to be 2-way players

complete mess ?

The last year of Torts the rangers missed out on the presidents trophy on the last day of the season to.... Vancouver, they made it to the ECF and lost.

So reality says the rangers have done little progressing under the completely different system implemented by AV. They may be more fun to watch but the results are very very similar.

And I am not even a huge Torts guy but he had as much success as AV in his stint and he had to deal with changing the entire mindset of the organization.

from wiki: "In the 2011–12 season, the Rangers finished as the top seed in the Eastern Conference. Recording 51 wins, 24 regulation losses and seven overtime losses, the team finished with 109 points for the regular season"

AV won the presidents trophy the next year with NYR at 113pts. WOW a whole 4pts better than torts, after inheriting the team he molded for the most part.

 

[haveandare]

Didn't know where to put this, but this is a pretty good rant about the current state of the Rangers. The Hockey Rodent always puts out good, insightful material:

Kind of scattered IMO. Av is the problem. Hank is the problem. Offensive depth is the problem. The D corps sucks is the problem.

I obviously agree that AV is a huge problem. I don't think I need to get into that anymore. In simplest terms, he plays bad players too much, plays good players too little. He calls out arbitrary players, coddles arbitrary players, and refuses to comment in any way on other arbitrary players.

Hank has dipped from the god he started as, but I also think our D has fallen apart. We were letting the other team create some sick chances early in the year, but we weren't leaving people alone on the doorstep and letting both d-men chase away from the net multiple times a period like we are now. That's either AV thinking he's got a sound strategy that isn't working or a bunch of d-men who can't listen to and then apply basic instructions. I think I know which one is more likely. I have a hard time blaming Hank too much because of this. He has some softies for sure, but so does everyone, and I don't consider lone shooters at the net with all the time in the world to be softies, NHL players can pick corners if you give them time, it's really not that hard.

The offense hasn't changed that much. I don't see the change where you can point to it and say, wow this was a major downgrade. Hagelin was a loss for sure in a sense. Lindberg is a good pickup though. Stalberg, now that he's healthy and skating like a beast is good for his role too. Late last year's MSL was bad and yet we still made a good run. Hayes has obviously lost it, hopefully just for a sophomore slump, but Miller is now twice the player he was last year IMO.

The D is a mess, mostly because G plays too much, McI too little, Staal too much, Yandle too little. G and Staal are shadows of the one dimensional players they used to be. They're essentially zero dimensional players now. Wouldn't be the problem it is if they were played as what they show they are every night.

 

[East Coast Bias]

complete mess ?

The last year of Torts the rangers missed out on the presidents trophy on the last day of the season to.... Vancouver, they made it to the ECF and lost.

So reality says the rangers have done little progressing under the completely different system implemented by AV. They may be more fun to watch but the results are very very similar.

And I am not even a huge Torts guy but he had as much success as AV in his stint and he had to deal with changing the entire mindset of the organization.

from wiki: "In the 2011–12 season, the Rangers finished as the top seed in the Eastern Conference. Recording 51 wins, 24 regulation losses and seven overtime losses, the team finished with 109 points for the regular season"

AV won the presidents trophy the next year with NYR at 113pts. WOW a whole 4pts better than torts, after inheriting the team he molded for the most part.

You're missing the lock out season (12-13). Torts last season the Rangers finished 16 pts behind Pitt as the 6 seed. We beat the Caps, and got smoked by Boston in the 2nd round.

AV's first year (13-14) we made the SCF, but did not win the Presidents trophy.

So there were a couple seasons in between Torts just missing the Presidents, and AV winning the Presidents.

Unless you were intentionally skipping seasons?...

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You're missing the lock out season (12-13). Torts last season the Rangers finished 16 pts behind Pitt as the 6 seed. We beat the Caps, and got smoked by Boston in the 2nd round.

AV's first year (13-14) we made the SCF, but did not win the Presidents trophy.

So there were a couple seasons in between Torts just missing the Presidents, and AV winning the Presidents.

Unless you were intentionally skipping seasons?...

I think comparing the lock out roster with the 2013-14 roster is very unfair. They lost a few key bodies to UFA/trades and suffered some pretty key injuries.


Torts had literally next to nothing to work with on D by the end of that Boston series, Hamrlik and Eminger taking regular shifts. They were dressing friggin Michael Haley on the 4th line too.

AV had more to work with than Torts did in 2013 or in 2011-12. Lets not act like he turned chicken **** into chicken salad when his rosters were in fact, deeper/more talented (not directed specifically at you.)

 

[East Coast Bias]

I think comparing the lock out roster with the 2013-14 roster is very unfair. They lost a few key bodies to UFA/trades and suffered some pretty key injuries.


Torts had literally next to nothing to work with on D by the end of that Boston series, Hamrlik and Eminger taking regular shifts. They were dressing friggin Michael Haley on the 4th line too.

AV had more to work with than Torts did in 2013 or in 2011-12. Lets not act like he turned chicken **** into chicken salad when his rosters were in fact, deeper/more talented (not directed specifically at you.)

I'm comparing anything. The post I replied to said that in Torts last year we just missed the Presidents Trophy, and AV's first year we won it, only increasing 4 pts over Torts.

Both of those statements were wrong.

 

[NYRKindms]

You're missing the lock out season (12-13). Torts last season the Rangers finished 16 pts behind Pitt as the 6 seed. We beat the Caps, and got smoked by Boston in the 2nd round.

AV's first year (13-14) we made the SCF, but did not win the Presidents trophy.

So there were a couple seasons in between Torts just missing the Presidents, and AV winning the Presidents.

Unless you were intentionally skipping seasons?...

I wasn't. I went to wiki to try to refresh my memory about the timing of his firing and they bury that season to 2 sentences. I thought they fired him after the ECF appearance and not the round 2 loss. But point still stands.

 

[True Blue]

Didn't know where to put this, but this is a pretty good rant about the current state of the Rangers. The Hockey Rodent always puts out good, insightful material:

Rodent is right

 

[True Blue]

The D is a mess, mostly because G plays too much, McI too little, Staal too much, Yandle too little. G and Staal are shadows of the one dimensional players they used to be. They're essentially zero dimensional players now. Wouldn't be the problem it is if they were played as what they show they are every night.

Add to that not getting Henke rest or resting Boyle or Girardi and you get what you get.

The overpassing offense is a hallmark of AV. When the tic tak toes work, they look pretty. When they do not, there is no Plan B and often giveaway occur.

 

[TheTakedown]

Rodent is right

agreed.

They'll get one more shot. They'll be buyers and sellers at the deadline, which I'm OK with... if they don't go anywhere, I expect huge changes this offseason--including AV

 

[Don Jaroodi*]

agreed.

They'll get one more shot. They'll be buyers and sellers at the deadline, which I'm OK with... if they don't go anywhere, I expect huge changes this offseason--including AV

I think AV is a proven bridesmaid.. and should be fired for his idiotic personnel decisions. But I agree, he'll get one more shot.

And unless at least one of Staal or Girardi are moved, I don't see how any "huge changes" will make a difference. They must be unloaded.

 

[Chaels Arms]

The Rodent still exists? That guy made for great reading during the dark ages. If he's just returning now we should cue up the ominous Darth Vader music because we might be in for another 10 years of misery.

 

[Miamipuck]

The Rodent still exists? That guy made for great reading during the dark ages. If he's just returning now we should cue up the ominous Darth Vader music because we might be in for another 10 years of misery.

Thank you for a very comforting post....lol

 

[PromNite]

The Rodent still exists? That guy made for great reading during the dark ages. If he's just returning now we should cue up the ominous Darth Vader music because we might be in for another 10 years of misery.

No need to worry, he's been around the whole time. He just doesn't publish rants as often anymore.

 

[Mac n Gs]

No need to worry, he's been around the whole time. He just doesn't publish rants as often anymore.

Does anyone know who he is? When he live-tweets games, he provides good technical feedback regarding player positioning and decisions on the ice.

 

[TheTakedown]

I think AV is a proven bridesmaid.. and should be fired for his idiotic personnel decisions. But I agree, he'll get one more shot.

And unless at least one of Staal or Girardi are moved, I don't see how any "huge changes" will make a difference. They must be unloaded.

Makes no sense to fire AV during the season, not at this rate. he knows this set of players better than any interim head coach...

This trade deadline is the first key... If the rangers are buyers, it needs to be for some parts that we need by sending away assets that we don't need/don't fit here. Simple lateral moves will just cost extra picks and yield minimal gains on the ice. I'm not sure who really fits this bill, but if we go into seller mode, Every unnecessary piece needs to be shopped--That means:

Staal/Yandle (the remaining one needs to be kept), Girardi, Boyle, Stalberg, Moore, and any throwaway prospects that are worthless here. Packaging some of these guys together to buy our way back into the 1st round should also be investigated

The next key is the playoffs. If we don't make it, then Gorton needs to fire AV, hands down. The team could use the rest, and it'll instill a sense of urgency in some of these kids that they need to work harder.

The next key is the draft. If AV is fired, a coach needs to be hired PRIOR to the draft. Afterwards, the remaining bad contracts need to be shipped out, declining players sent on their way, and some key trades to bring in guys who will explode here.

The last key is free agency. Assuming those bad contracts are moved (I have full faith Staal can be moved), a top young RHD is an absolute necessity on this team, especially if Girardi is gone (feasible). Whether this comes in a trade is yet to be seen, but I can see it happening.

Then training camp comes and we see what happens. I can't see AV bouncing back from this.

Jeff has the balls to do this--will he show them?

 

[Don Jaroodi*]

^ I forget, is our 2016 1st we gave to Arizona lotto protected?

 

[Inferno]

^ I forget, is our 2016 1st we gave to Arizona lotto protected?

yeah rangers get to choose which year (this or next) they give the pick up. its best to do it this year...they are still a playoff team (right now), id tear it down though if it were me.

 

[Miamipuck]

^ I forget, is our 2016 1st we gave to Arizona lotto protected?

Yes, it is protected.

 

[BBKers]

AV looks like he is losing the team
The body language looks quite insecure and indecisive
He came in. He transformed the team to play hockey instead of Neanderthal puck. He made the SC Finals. His smirking demeanor and egocentric ways get the best of him and the team demises
His signature melody rinse & repeat all over again
Vacation coming soon?

 

[NYRFAN218]

I don't think he's losing the team.

I just think the players he leans heavily on aren't very good anymore and most of his personnel decisions have been questionable to downright laughable this season.

 

[Raspewtin]

I've had enough with this guy

 

[silverfish]

I'm not there yet. If Klein is out for a bit of time here, I'm excited to get Dylan into the lineup.

But in reality, AV will lose me when Dylan proves, again, that he needs to be in the lineup every night, and when Klein returns, he pulls him instead of Boyle.

Then I'll be done with AV.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'm not there yet. If Klein is out for a bit of time here, I'm excited to get Dylan into the lineup.

But in reality, AV will lose me when Dylan proves, again, that he needs to be in the lineup every night, and when Klein returns, he pulls him instead of Boyle.

Then I'll be done with AV.

Why did Boyle return to the lineup today after we won our last game with G, Klein, McI as our right side?

 

[silverfish]

Why did Boyle return to the lineup today after we won our last game with G, Klein, McI as our right side?

Because McIlrath got credit for Miller's goal, and AV needed to teach him a lesson for stealing other people's accomplishments.

Or because it was the right thing to do.

 

[Inferno]

Fire him... Only injuries can make this idiot put the best possible lineup out there. Dan girardi again burned for chances and goals against....keeps playing big minutes....fire him...fire him now.

His primary job is to fill out a piece of paper that represents the best possible team...this moron has proven for years now that he's incapable of doing that.