Value of: Adam Larsson to The Toronto Maple Leafs (Atlantic Division)?

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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I want to keep Liljgren and Dermott. It's time we develop our own young D into players.
You know when the Leafs were in trouble? 2 1sts and a 2nd for Kessel. Rask for Raycroft. Steen to the Blues. Overpaying for players like Komisarek,Clarkson etc.

You know when they weren't in trouble. Drafting Matthews,Marner,Nylander,Brown,Dermott,Lily etc.
Stay this course.
 

Liferleafer

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Feb 9, 2011
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You know when the Leafs were in trouble? 2 1sts and a 2nd for Kessel. Rask for Raycroft. Steen to the Blues. Overpaying for players like Komisarek,Clarkson etc.

You know when they weren't in trouble. Drafting Matthews,Marner,Nylander,Brown,Dermott,Lily etc.
Stay this course.
Bingo! I am hoping that Lil and Dermott become our McAvoys or Slavins.
 
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leafsfan1234

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Dermott and Liljegren will both be much better than him soon.. Not seeing the point here.
 

Drew311

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Why would the Leafs trade Nylander/Marner for a defenseman who isn't playing well?

Lou isn't Chiarelli. He's not going to make a trade to make his team worse.
 

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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Better in what way? They will be better shut down players than Larsson?
Too early to tell. Different players so who knows.
I'd rather wait and find out. If these players can be at worst 2nd pair D we should be in good shape. One left, one right mobile puck moving D. Young and on ELCs.

Any teams good D is going to cost something we can't pay at this time. We don't have enough depth to take someone off the roster. The players we have in the AHL haven't proven anything yet to be offered.
But we hope they can so no major trades of this variety are necessary.
 

Liferleafer

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Why would the Leafs trade Nylander/Marner for a defenseman who isn't playing well?

Lou isn't Chiarelli. He's not going to make a trade to make his team worse.
I wouldn't do the OP, but Larsson is actually playing well.....he's a victim (just like Rielly was) of poor partners and a team that plays shit defense as a whole. He's being asked to play well above his ability right now.
 

Tkachuckycheese

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Feb 2, 2016
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Leaf fans can't give a fair assessment ever on trade value. You value your prospects way too high and each player is like the second coming of Christ.
 
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Cup or Bust

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Why would the Leafs trade Nylander/Marner for a defenseman who isn't playing well?

Lou isn't Chiarelli. He's not going to make a trade to make his team worse.
Trading Larrson for a forward will not make the Oilers better either. Defensively he is the Oilers best defenseman. If Larsson's are so easy to acquire then there should not even be a thread or discussion about him since he is not worth much, and teams around the league are fine with trading guys like him. Should be easy enough to find one like him.
 

Gerard

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You know when the Leafs were in trouble? 2 1sts and a 2nd for Kessel. Rask for Raycroft. Steen to the Blues. Overpaying for players like Komisarek,Clarkson etc.

You know when they weren't in trouble. Drafting Matthews,Marner,Nylander,Brown,Dermott,Lily etc.
Stay this course.
We get it, some fans think everything Toronto touches or drafts is a for sure NHL asset.

We also get that is not the case
 

Kamiccolo

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I'd welcome Larsson on the Leafs with open arms. He would solidify the 2nd pairing and give us a solid soldier for the PK. However, the Oilers will not move him yet after how much they paid for him. He'll stay in Edmonton at least a few more years. Leafs simply won't offer equivalent value of what they paid, but no team will. At the moment all teams know that Chia is kind of screwed. He paid a huge price, and he can either sit on him like he will do, or do a panic deal and be forced to get less back than he gave.

At this point, Dermott and Liljgren look to be 2nd pairing D in the future. The top pair has been great for the Leafs this year and Rielly has been a #1 D for us. I simply do not see the benefit of bringing in him at the cost of a Marner or Nylander piece. In a few years when Hainsey has retired, maybe the need will be bigger, but Dermott is tracking to be a very good player for us.

I think the Leafs are just going to wait and keep developing their picks and prospects at this point. Believe it or not, you can have a good player and have other teams not want to trade for them for reasons other than they suck. There just isn't a deal to be made here.
 

Gerard

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I wouldn't do the OP, but Larsson is actually playing well.....he's a victim (just like Rielly was) of poor partners and a team that plays **** defense as a whole. He's being asked to play well above his ability right now.
Yeah but its EDM vs TOR in the thread which means Larsson just has to be crapped on.

Larsson is extremely good defensively. Would be Toronto’s best dman in the dzone
 

Kamiccolo

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We get it, some fans think everything Toronto touches or drafts is a for sure NHL asset.

We also get that is not the case

I don't think so. Undeniably the drafting and developing has been much better the last few years since management changed. Leaf fans know guys won't 100% make it, we get optimistic like every other fanbase. Liljgren is tracking to be a special prospect, and Dermott looks poised to be at the least a top 4 D for the team. Was that posters point that all the draft picks are going to hit their ceiling? Not as I read it. His point was that the Leafs stopped being bad when they started hanging onto guys like Dermott and Liljgren instead of trading them for guys who can't find a spot on other teams.

Larsson is a great dman, Leafs not willing to give the pieces to get him doesn't make him a worse player, it's just that at some point you need to stick it out with your own assets.
 

Cup or Bust

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I'd welcome Larsson on the Leafs with open arms. He would solidify the 2nd pairing and give us a solid soldier for the PK. However, the Oilers will not move him yet after how much they paid for him. He'll stay in Edmonton at least a few more years. Leafs simply won't offer equivalent value of what they paid, but no team will. At the moment all teams know that Chia is kind of screwed. He paid a huge price, and he can either sit on him like he will do, or do a panic deal and be forced to get less back than he gave.

At this point, Dermott and Liljgren look to be 2nd pairing D in the future. The top pair has been great for the Leafs this year and Rielly has been a #1 D for us. I simply do not see the benefit of bringing in him at the cost of a Marner or Nylander piece. In a few years when Hainsey has retired, maybe the need will be bigger, but Dermott is tracking to be a very good player for us.

I think the Leafs are just going to wait and keep developing their picks and prospects at this point. Believe it or not, you can have a good player and have other teams not want to trade for them for reasons other than they suck. There just isn't a deal to be made here.

Has nothing to do with how much they traded for him. They wont move him because they need him and have no reason to trade him. How in the world will they replace him?
 

Liferleafer

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We get it, some fans think everything Toronto touches or drafts is a for sure NHL asset.

We also get that is not the case
Yes, that's exactly what we think.....it has nothing to do with our team watching Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton play for other teams because we traded them for the "sure thing". There is a reason Boston is enjoying MacAvoy and the Canes are enjoying Slavin, it's because they didn't deal them away. That doesn't mean Liljgren/Dermott will pan out, but at some point, you need to trust your scouts and management and develop your picks. It's the old way of thinking that we Leafs fans never want to relive, you think Oilers fans wouldn't undo the Hall/Larsson trade if they could?
 

Kamiccolo

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Yeah but its EDM vs TOR in the thread which means Larsson just has to be crapped on.

Larsson is extremely good defensively. Would be Toronto’s best dman in the dzone

I'd like to see where you got this information from, or is this just your opinion? I think Rielly has been better this year in basically every measurable category while playing harder minutes.
 

Trapper

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We get it, some fans think everything Toronto touches or drafts is a for sure NHL asset.

We also get that is not the case
A lot of players we draft aren't going to make it.
The question is, which ones? Out of the last 30 guys we drafted we are probably lucky if 3 or 4 are legit. Again, who are they. Hate to give the wrong ones away.
Since we don't have a crystal ball, you'd like to give the players you have invested in time to make those decisions. Unless a crazy deal in your teams favor comes along, it's best to stay the course.

And please, every team overvalues mostly everything in their organization and undervalues the others.
Just keep scrolling down the threads.
Fans make the worst GMs because real GMs don't hate everyone else.
 

Liferleafer

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I don't think so. Undeniably the drafting and developing has been much better the last few years since management changed. Leaf fans know guys won't 100% make it, we get optimistic like every other fanbase. Liljgren is tracking to be a special prospect, and Dermott looks poised to be at the least a top 4 D for the team. Was that posters point that all the draft picks are going to hit their ceiling? Not as I read it. His point was that the Leafs stopped being bad when they started hanging onto guys like Dermott and Liljgren instead of trading them for guys who can't find a spot on other teams.

Larsson is a great dman, Leafs not willing to give the pieces to get him doesn't make him a worse player, it's just that at some point you need to stick it out with your own assets.
Bingo. It goes for all the Weber talk as well, Leafs shouldn't be moving the youth for quick fixes.
 

Liferleafer

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Yeah but its EDM vs TOR in the thread which means Larsson just has to be crapped on.

Larsson is extremely good defensively. Would be Toronto’s best dman in the dzone
Honestly, most of us have acknowledged Larsson is a good Dman, we just don't want to trade Nylander/Marner....we also would like to see what we have in Liljgren and dermott.
 

Gerard

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Dec 24, 2017
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I'd like to see where you got this information from, or is this just your opinion? I think Rielly has been better this year in basically every measurable category while playing harder minutes.
Larsson is a defensive dman. Rielly is a two way dman.

Larsson has been defensively reaponsible since his rookie year. Hes excellent defensively and his stretch pass is elite. Past that he is average at most things. He certainly is better defensively than rielly though, for all of their time in the nhl. And i dont see that being a knock on Rielly considering that’s Larssons specialty.
 
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Crosscrease14

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Dec 16, 2014
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Seeing how the Oilers traded Hall for Larsson, I don't see them accepting anything less than Nylander or Marner for Larsson. I even think they'd want an addition on top of those guys, too, seeing how they weren't as good as Hall was when he was traded.

Hall had a whopping four more points than Nylander and Marner who nearly matched his pace and are much younger. Leafs laugh at Nylander/Marner for Larsson, asking for more on top must mean it's April 1st.
 

lifelonghockeyfan

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Why is it that when a defencemen gets traded.....90% of the time it's to the Leafs, and 95% non Leaf fans think the Leafs HAVE to trade Nylander or Marner.

The reality is Larsson would replace the Carrick/Polak combo. Hardly worth trading your top RWer or even your young second liner RWer, with good potential. (and I like Larsson) Does any knowledgeable hockey fan really think Larsson is going to vault the Leafs into the Cup finals? Hasn't worked in Edmonton last year or this year.

Admitting the Leafs would like help in the bottom pair. But doesn't every team? Leafs are 16th GAA. Hardly constitutes panic selling.
 

Tkachuckycheese

Oilers/Sens
Feb 2, 2016
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Yes, that's exactly what we think.....it has nothing to do with our team watching Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton play for other teams because we traded them for the "sure thing". There is a reason Boston is enjoying MacAvoy and the Canes are enjoying Slavin, it's because they didn't deal them away. That doesn't mean Liljgren/Dermott will pan out, but at some point, you need to trust your scouts and management and develop your picks. It's the old way of thinking that we Leafs fans never want to relive, you think Oilers fans wouldn't undo the Hall/Larsson trade if they could?

Nope the Oilers desperately needed tp upgrade the backend.
 

Gerard

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Dec 24, 2017
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New Jersey
A lot of players we draft aren't going to make it.
The question is, which ones? Out of the last 30 guys we drafted we are probably lucky if 3 or 4 are legit. Again, who are they. Hate to give the wrong ones away.
Since we don't have a crystal ball, you'd like to give the players you have invested in time to make those decisions. Unless a crazy deal in your teams favor comes along, it's best to stay the course.

And please, every team overvalues mostly everything in their organization and undervalues the others.
Just keep scrolling down the threads.
Fans make the worst GMs because real GMs don't hate everyone else.
Well you said two of your d prospects as top 4 potential and then essentially crowned them the ability yo reach it by saying they likely will. Yet they havent shown anything to prove they have that potential.

Same with Kapanen supposedly not being in the lineup because Toronto is so deep. No, its because Kapanen is a run of the mill prospect who isnt NHL talent enough to break their roster. What, hed play 4th line on most teams he makes?

Thats what I mean by overrating their prospects. Its fine if you want to give them time to grow and see if they work out but to put them into a conversation with Larsson like as if they could possibly take his roll in the next few seasons is just silly. If you dont want to move for Larsson then thats fine too. But Larsson proved he had top pair potential when he made the league at 18 and was strong defensively. Lilligren (?) and Dermott were given their potentials by the opinions of professionals, not by NHL play.

Biggest current examples I can give: Jesper Bratt and the Islanders’ two goaltending prospects. Jesper Bratt was a 6th rounder with whatever upside because no one talked about him quite frankly. Comes into training camp only to make the team and then be our second highest scorer by the halfway mark. He has top 3-6 potential because hes proven that at the NHL level. On the flip side in the bit of a same situation as this thread basis, the Islanders have two very strong goaltending prospects. Instead of moving for a goaltender they may trust one of them to lead the way next year. They claim they have starting goaltender potential but what does that mean until they get NHL games in? Does that make Garth Snow crazy for trusting in an unproven goaltender just because of upside? I think it does but thats just me.

Tl;dr: I dont put much stock into draft/skill potential, I think true potential comes from what you show in the league you’re trying to stay in/make.

Note: and no, not every prospect needs to kill it to have potential. If Jesper Bratt came into the league and scored 10 points in 8 games and then cooled off and was sent down, youd say the kid has top 9 potential from his skill and play.
 

oXo Cube

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Why is it that when a defencemen gets traded.....90% of the time it's to the Leafs, and 95% non Leaf fans think the Leafs HAVE to trade Nylander or Marner.

The reality is Larsson would replace the Carrick/Polak combo. Hardly worth trading your top RWer or even your young second liner RWer, with good potential. (and I like Larsson) Does any knowledgeable hockey fan really think Larsson is going to vault the Leafs into the Cup finals? Hasn't worked in Edmonton last year or this year.

Admitting the Leafs would like help in the bottom pair. But doesn't every team? Leafs are 16th GAA. Hardly constitutes panic selling.

Probably because the Oilers aren't going to care about where Larsson fits into the Leafs lineup.

He's not available(heres a spoiler for you: good top 4 Dmen very rarely are) so you'll have to pay the asking price or look elsewhere. I would expect and not blame you for opting for the latter.
 

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