Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap Part XXXVI

[Brian23]

If Green resigns I just question how our team is gonna look long term. We've got an absurd amount of money tied up in our D and guys like Orlov and Schmidt are eventually gonna be making more then the 2 million they're making now. We also need money for another Center and eventually we have to pay Carlson and Alzner.

If Orpik wasn't here, or they find a way to eventually unload him, maybe but I expect he's here for the long haul.

 

[SimplySensational]

Czech rumor says Krejic extended for 6 years, just over $7m. Only leaves Spezza as a viable 2nd line center for next years free agency.

 

[txpd]

If Green resigns I just question how our team is gonna look long term. We've got an absurd amount of money tied up in our D and guys like Orlov and Schmidt are eventually gonna be making more then the 2 million they're making now. We also need money for another Center and eventually we have to pay Carlson and Alzner.

If Orpik wasn't here, or they find a way to eventually unload him, maybe but I expect he's here for the long haul.

most of the time when a team looks like its totally boxed in by the cap, the team seems to easily find its way. the trade forum is overrun with trade proposals talking about how the cap troubled team will be dumping good players for nothing and so on. it never happens.

if the caps extend green it will be because they have a way thru.

 

[Brian23]

most of the time when a team looks like its totally boxed in by the cap, the team seems to easily find its way. the trade forum is overrun with trade proposals talking about how the cap troubled team will be dumping good players for nothing and so on. it never happens.

if the caps extend green it will be because they have a way thru.

I'm not saying they can't sign Green, they have the room to do it. My issue is that they then can't upgrade other areas if they do it.

 

[Dream Big]

If Green resigns I just question how our team is gonna look long term. We've got an absurd amount of money tied up in our D and guys like Orlov and Schmidt are eventually gonna be making more then the 2 million they're making now. We also need money for another Center and eventually we have to pay Carlson and Alzner.

If Orpik wasn't here, or they find a way to eventually unload him, maybe but I expect he's here for the long haul.

Long term is quite interesting considering the talk about bringing additional teams on line. The jostling and positioning for that event and for UFA's will be most interesting to see.

 

[Ajax1995]

We've got an absurd amount of money tied up in our D...

I'm just curious but what is the correct amount of money a team should spend on its defense under a $69 mil cap?

 

[Brian23]

I'm just curious but what is the correct amount of money a team should spend on its defense under a $69 mil cap?

There isn't a "correct amount" but this isn't like we've got a Ryan Suter and a Shea Weber on our D to warrant the almost 30 million we're spending on our D this year. We're spending about 3.5 million per D player, which isn't too bad but over 8 people that to me seems pretty high without, again, a super star on D. Offensively we're spending about 2.7 million per player and that's with a super star on that side.

I just have an issue playing 3 guys north of 5.5 on our D when none of them are truly clear cut 1's and we've got a gaping hole at 2C.

 

[Ajax1995]

There isn't a "correct amount" but this isn't like we've got a Ryan Suter and a Shea Weber on our D to warrant the almost 30 million we're spending on our D this year. We're spending about 3.5 million per D player, which isn't too bad but over 8 people that to me seems pretty high without, again, a super star on D. Offensively we're spending about 2.7 million per player and that's with a super star on that side.

I just have an issue playing 3 guys north of 5.5 on our D when none of them are truly clear cut 1's and we've got a gaping hole at 2C.

You haven't even seen this team play yet. This team now has serious quality depth on defense. There are always going to be quality pairings on the ice. Being able to do that is a huge plus and enables lots of different matchup possibilities.

And who knows how the candidates for center behind Backstrom are going to play? How about we actually see the team play for a little while before deciding they don't have anyone capable of playing 2C?

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

You haven't even seen this team play yet. This team now has serious quality depth on defense. There are always going to be quality pairings on the ice. Being able to do that is a huge plus and enables lots of different matchup possibilities.

And who knows how the candidates for center behind Backstrom are going to play? How about we actually see the team play for a little while before deciding they don't have anyone capable of playing 2C?

There is serious depth at defense. I'd hesitate to call it quality depth, especially until we see them on ice.

 

[BobRouse]

You haven't even seen this team play yet. This team now has serious quality depth on defense. There are always going to be quality pairings on the ice. Being able to do that is a huge plus and enables lots of different matchup possibilities.

And who knows how the candidates for center behind Backstrom are going to play? How about we actually see the team play for a little while before deciding they don't have anyone capable of playing 2C?

Yeah I agree about our D.

As far as the 2C goes I think its best we develop one internally. Lang, Nylander, Belanger, Morrison etc were just not viable solutions. Fedorov was excellent but he was near 40.

Grabovski was on a 50 pt pace and missed a third of the season. Twice as many games as the fragile Mike Green.

 

[txpd]

There is serious depth at defense. I'd hesitate to call it quality depth, especially until we see them on ice.

I know. its hard to apply the word quality to mike green. I feel ya.

 

[txpd]

I'm not saying they can't sign Green, they have the room to do it. My issue is that they then can't upgrade other areas if they do it.

rosters and cap space have a way of opening up that fans aren't considering. it can bite now and then like it did with nylander and Guerin, but usually it doesn't.

maybe its just me, but if green is consistently among the top 10 among nhl defense in scoring I'd prefer that he do that on the caps rather than get the cap space.

 

[butters8814*]

I am happy the D hasnt been this good or deep in a long time. But you got to think green will be the odd man out, by trade or letting his contract run out.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

I know. its hard to apply the word quality to mike green. I feel ya.

Niskanen as well. And it'll be interesting to see how Orpik comes back from a slew of injuries.

 

[trick9]

I am happy the D hasnt been this good or deep in a long time. But you got to think green will be the odd man out, by trade or letting his contract run out.

At this point he's pretty much the best choice. Otherwise what are you going to do with the several D prospects that should be ready to play in '15-'16 season.

Orpik and Niskanen just signed. I can't see them trading Carlson or Alzner either. Orlov? That's possibility but he's much cheaper option than Green and still has tons of potential in him. Green is no longer top-pairing D but you have to think that because he is still producing points at a good rate he will get that massive contract from somewhere while he is still in his prime. I wouldn't mind resigning him for something close to 4.5x4 but that's propably not something he would consider. More like north of 6 and 5-7 years, since there will once again be desperate teams looking for offensive D next summer.

 

[txpd]

I am happy the D hasnt been this good or deep in a long time. But you got to think green will be the odd man out, by trade or letting his contract run out.

Lets see how the minutes and roles are assigned. I am pretty sure that if Green is put in a position to succeded, they will want to keep him.

I think there is a reasonable chance that Trotz uses Green as a 3rd pair backup to Carlson and Niskanen. That he doesn't see primary pp time and offensive situation time unless there is an injury. I think in that case that Green will be traded at some point.

I also think its reasonable to see Green getting 20+ minutes and full on first pp time and putting up big numbers.

@BCF I am much more confident in Green having a big season than either Niskanen or Oprik.

 

[Hivemind]

I'm just curious but what is the correct amount of money a team should spend on its defense under a $69 mil cap?

As far as I can tell, these are the teams that spend $20M+ of their cap space on defense in the upcoming season.

Philadelphia: $31.341M cap space on defense (w/ Pronger & Timonen)
Tampa Bay: $28.814M cap space on defense (w/ Ohlund)
Washington: $28.761M cap space on defense
St. Louis: $25.991M cap space on defense
Tampa Bay: $25.207M cap space on defense (w/o Ohlund)
Montreal: $25.195M cap space on defense
Chicago: $24.498M cap space on defense
Philadelphia: $24.4M cap space on defense (w/o Pronger & Timonen)
NYRangers: $22.825M cap space on defense (John Moore unsigned RFA)
Toronto: $22.027M cap space on defense (6 players + retained slary on Gunnarsson and Gleason buyout)
Pittsburgh: $22.019M cap space on defense
Vancouver: $20.675M cap space on defense

In other words, once you remove players on LTIR that the teams had to replace, the Capitals have the most expensive defense in the league by nearly $3M.


It's not just about how much to spend on defense. It's about how long that defense is locked up for, and more importantly still, who they're spending it on. The Capitals have the most expensive defense in the league, but I don't think even the most delusional fan would call it anything close to being the best defense in the league.

 

[txpd]

At this point he's pretty much the best choice. Otherwise what are you going to do with the several D prospects that should be ready to play in '15-'16 season.

Orpik and Niskanen just signed. I can't see them trading Carlson or Alzner either. Orlov? That's possibility but he's much cheaper option than Green and still has tons of potential in him. Green is no longer top-pairing D but you have to think that because he is still producing points at a good rate he will get that massive contract from somewhere while he is still in his prime. I wouldn't mind resigning him for something close to 4.5x4 but that's propably not something he would consider. More like north of 6 and 5-7 years, since there will once again be desperate teams looking for offensive D next summer.

If Green remains capable of leading the NHL in goals and points from defense, he is no less a top pairing defenseman that he was before. As his defense has improved with age as is usually the case, he is more capable in that regard.

Signing of Niskanen doesn't force the Caps to remove the better of the offensive defensemen particularly when he is the best or at minimum among the best in the league. They'd find a way.

The Caps have room for one of those young defensemen. Defense is a position where experience is of a premium. The less young it is the better. Last season when Erskine was not in the lineup, Green was the most oldest member of the d.

 

[ChibiPooky]

I'm not worried about the salary cap at all. Natural growth plus expansion fees plus the ability to dump bad contracts in the expansion draft.

 

[BobRouse]

I'm not worried about the salary cap at all. Natural growth plus expansion fees plus the ability to dump bad contracts in the expansion draft.

Not only that but we have alot of guys locked up to fixed amounts. Lets say we pay Green what he is getting now for several years.

As the salary cap goes up so will the costs of the defenses from other times while ours will remain relatively stable (Alzner and Orlov extensions but they will still be RFAs I believe)

Im glad we have Ovechkin and Backstrom locked up long term. Their contracts are looking pretty good now after what Kane and Toews got which will set the precedent going forward.

So while our D is among the most expensive in the league this year you will see it sink further down the list, with each passing year, EVEN if we resign Green.

 

[Hivemind]

Alzner will be a UFA when his current contract expires after the 2017-18 season.

It's not just the money that's concerning, it's the term that they would be locked into the same, non-elite defensive core. Extending Green for significant term gives them little roster flexibility with the blueline going forward.

 

[txpd]

Alzner will be a UFA when his current contract expires after the 2017-18 season.

It's not just the money that's concerning, it's the term that they would be locked into the same, non-elite defensive core. Extending Green for significant term gives them little roster flexibility with the blueline going forward.

I do love this. Green sucks and we have to get rid of him. Because he sucks. Green wins the Norris and he has to go because he will be too expensive.

 

[Hivemind]

I do love this. Green sucks and we have to get rid of him. Because he sucks. Green wins the Norris and he has to go because he will be too expensive.

Please explain how what I said has absolutely anything to do with your comment.

Hint: it doesn't

 

[BobRouse]

Alzner will be a UFA when his current contract expires after the 2017-18 season.

It's not just the money that's concerning, it's the term that they would be locked into the same, non-elite defensive core. Extending Green for significant term gives them little roster flexibility with the blueline going forward.

What you are saying is that our defensive corp is not-elite and won't be even if Green performs much better than last year (not a stretch). You haven't even seen this current group of D play together under a legit coaching staff and you are ready to draw this conclusion?

And if Green is excellent under Trotz you would STILL want him gone even if he will stay at the same rate over term with the Salary Cap going up??

 

[txpd]

Please explain how what I said has absolutely anything to do with your comment.

Hint: it doesn't

your statement says
"Extending Green for significant term gives them little roster flexibility with the blueline going forward."

I read that as saying that the caps cant afford to keep him regardless of his play. So, were he to max the season out and win the Norris, he cant be extended for significant term because he will be too expensive.

Where am I wrong?