Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXIII

[IafrateOvie34]

I honestly have no desire for this team to sign Johansson...at any cost.

Me either. Time to move on and stop looking at the past and see what the future holds. I never hated the player like many Caps fans, however he is 26 and there is fresh blood now. As another poster said somewhere the last few days, give Eller his PP position. I would rather get another player who will plow through traffic and get garbage goals than make continuous finesse plays.

Go Caps!

 

[third man in]

He has the KHL fallback option. Arbitration commits him to the ruling doesn't it? Not sure of the technicalities.

If the Caps don't come to terms now he could head home for decent $ couldn't he (as he currently sits)? That or a long holdout heading into camp?

I guess its possible but I haven't seen any indication Orlov wants to go back home. He's playing for a contender and has a shot a top 4 minutes here. I see him signing a two year bridge deal and hope to solidify himself as a legit top 4. Then get paid big after he proves himself.

 

[Langway]

Given the agent and the line in the sand being drawn once already, why assume the KHL is an empty threat? What's an Orlov getting paid on the KHL open market?

Sobotka went through club elected arbitration, not player, is there a difference or can both parties walk away either way?

Because the KHL is garbage? Until we hear a report of that nature I can only assume he wants to build off of last season and continue his NHL career. It's possible but I don't think it's the draw it was for a brief period.

Team-elected is binding for both parties. Those filings are pretty rare with only like 17 over the past decade (just one this year IINM). Teams can walk away from player-elected if the award reaches a certain threshold (~$3.9M this summer). In theory Orlov could have filed and probably would have gotten more for next season alone than he's likely to outside of arbitration. Reporters have assumed something is close as to why he didn't file. You'd think if they were really far apart he would have filed and relied on what was pretty outstanding 5-on-5 production. He did the Caps a favor I think and that may indeed signal at least a willingness and belief that they'll find a number that works on their own.

 

[Hivemind]

Langway's posts are spot-on. Orlov can walk away from arbitration (just not to another NHL team), as he's not actually under contract. Gandler didn't represent Erat. Gandler represents almost entirely Russian players, and is not the "Drew Rosenhouse" of the NHL (and any references to that are basically calling back to 15+ year old disputes from before the salary cap).

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Because the KHL is garbage? Until we hear a report of that nature I can only assume he wants to build off of last season and continue his NHL career. It's possible but I don't think it's the draw it was for a brief period.

Team-elected is binding for both parties. Those filings are pretty rare with only like 17 over the past decade (just one this year IINM). Teams can walk away from player-elected if the award reaches a certain threshold (~$3.9M this summer). In theory Orlov could have filed and probably would have gotten more for next season alone than he's likely to outside of arbitration. Reporters have assumed something is close as to why he didn't file. You'd think if they were really far apart he would have filed and relied on what was pretty outstanding 5-on-5 production. He did the Caps a favor I think and that may indeed signal at least a willingness and belief that they'll find a number that works on their own.

He's a young Russian guy. You think he feels like the KHL is garbage? if Sobotka got 3 years $12 mil, what's Orlov getting over there? Of course I believe he would prefer the NHL, but let's not pretend he doesn't have a good fallback in his homeland.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I guess its possible but I haven't seen any indication Orlov wants to go back home. He's playing for a contender and has a shot a top 4 minutes here. I see him signing a two year bridge deal and hope to solidify himself as a legit top 4. Then get paid big after he proves himself.

I think you're right, in likelihood this will happen, just talking alternatives. If Orlov believes the Caps aren't going to protect him from the expansion, maybe he wants them to commit now so they have to protect him and he isn't forced to go to a horrible team just starting out, or move him to a team that values him more today? Totally talking hypotheticals that his agent should be discussing with his client.

 

[hockeykicker]

matthieu perrault got a 4 year deal at 4.125 per for 9 goals and 32 assists last year. another mojo measure

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Who wouldn't want to take long haul flights on a plane unfit for flight in the US/western Europe or play in an arena that doesn't have a defibrillator or paramedics on hand?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

matthieu perrault got a 4 year deal at 4.125 per for 9 goals and 32 assists last year. another mojo measure

???


http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/winnipeg-jets/mathieu-perreault/

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Who wouldn't want to take long haul flights on a plane unfit for flight in the US/western Europe or play in an arena that doesn't have a defibrillator or paramedics on hand?

LOL...you should submit yourself for the KHL PR Ambassador role...

 

[hockeykicker]

???


http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/winnipeg-jets/mathieu-perreault/

sorry should have mentioned he just signed

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

sorry should have mentioned he just signed

WOW....good for Matty P. I wouldn't have given him that, and I was a supporter.


I'd definitely rather have Mojo at that price.

 

[Hivemind]

matthieu perrault got a 4 year deal at 4.125 per for 9 goals and 32 assists last year. another mojo measure

It's a UFA contract and thus cannot be used as a comparable player/contract in the arbitration hearing.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

It's a UFA contract and thus cannot be used as a comparable player/contract in the arbitration hearing.

Why does Spotrac show him under contract for one more year?

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/winnipeg-jets/mathieu-perreault/

 

[Hivemind]

Why does Spotrac show him under contract for one more year?

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/winnipeg-jets/mathieu-perreault/

Because his current $3M deal doesn't expire until after this season. His new four year deal kicks in for 2017-18.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Because his current $3M deal doesn't expire until after this season. His new four year deal kicks in for 2017-18.

So he wasn't an UFA and it's not really an UFA contract but an extension, but maybe ticks one of the other inadmissible categories (such as not a category 2 player) that I don't care to read up on more than I have already.

The following categories of evidence are inadmissible and shall not be considered by the Salary Arbitrator: (A) Any SPC the term of which began when the Player party to such SPC was not a Group 2 Player; (B) Any SPC entered into by an Unrestricted Free Agent, including SPCs signed by Players after the Player's Club has exercised a walk-away right pursuant to Section 12.10; (C) The SPC of any Player who is not being offered as a comparable Player to the party Player; (D) Qualifying Offers made by the Club pursuant to Section 10.2(b); (E) Any prior offers or history of negotiations between the Player and the Club; (F) Testimonials, videotapes, newspaper columns, press game reports or similar materials; (G) Any reference to actual or potential walk-away rights; (H) Any award issued by a Salary Arbitrator as to which a Club exercised its walk-away rights pursuant to Section 12.10; (I) The financial condition of the Club or the League; (J) References to a Club's Upper or Lower Limit, or to the Players' Share; (K) Any salary arbitration award issued in 2005-2006; or

 

[twabby]

It's still a UFA contract because he would have been a UFA at the end of his current contract.

 

[Langway]

Sure, the KHL is an option. I just think we would have read some smoke about that if it was a legit option. There was that whole cryptic expansion protection trade stuff mentioned by Trotz but that's a secondary motivation at best for moving anyone right now.

I think you're right, in likelihood this will happen, just talking alternatives. If Orlov believes the Caps aren't going to protect him from the expansion, maybe he wants them to commit now so they have to protect him and he isn't forced to go to a horrible team just starting out, or move him to a team that values him more today? Totally talking hypotheticals that his agent should be discussing with his client.

There's nothing the Caps can do today that would obligate them to protect him next summer. The best thing he can do is play well and become more of a reliable top 4 defenseman. That way whether it's Washington or elsewhere he'll stand to be well paid and an established NHLer. Again, if they were getting low-balled by Washington then arbitration should be the mechanism to correct that. His 5-on-5 production would have made for a strong case. I don't know of perfect comparables given his atypical usage but that production alone should pay off. It's possible Orlov's camp may want a trade for a bigger role or better fit but arbitration as a last resort protection seems like the way to go. As-is he now has to rely on the KHL threat, an offer sheet and plain negotiation.

Perreault's current three-year deal included two UFA years so he's well beyond comparable RFA status.

 

[Hivemind]

Calling it a "UFA contract" is another way of saying it's not an ELC or RFA ("group 2") contract. It's not an admissible contract to be used as a comparable in arbitration. Neither is his previous deal, since he was a UFA after Anaheim opted not to qualify him.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Sure, the KHL is an option. I just think we would have read some smoke about that if it was a legit option. There was that whole cryptic expansion protection trade stuff mentioned by Trotz but that's a secondary motivation at best for moving anyone right now.

There's nothing the Caps can do today that would obligate them to protect him next summer. The best thing he can do is play well and become more of a reliable top 4 defenseman. That way whether it's Washington or elsewhere he'll stand to be well paid and an established NHLer. Again, if they were getting low-balled by Washington then arbitration should be the mechanism to correct that. His 5-on-5 production would have made for a strong case. I don't know of perfect comparables given his atypical usage but that production alone should pay off. It's possible Orlov's camp may want a trade for a bigger role or better fit but arbitration as a last resort protection seems like the way to go. As-is he now has to rely on a combination of the KHL, an offer sheet and plain negotiation.

Perreault's current three-year deal included two UFA years so he's well beyond comparable RFA status.

Sure there is....a NMC in his next deal would obligate them. They could also give him a large enough contract betting on his future, to attempt to dissuade LV from selecting him, or that combined with a side deal with LV to not select him for some compensation....

 

[Roughing]

MP got $16.5M? Craziness.

 

[Hivemind]

MP got $16.5M? Craziness.

It's the same ballpark as guys like Helm, Bozak, and Sutter.

 

[Langway]

Sure there is....a NMC in his next deal would obligate them. They could also give him a large enough contract betting on his future, to attempt to dissuade LV from selecting him, or that combined with a side deal with LV to not select him for some compensation....

A NMC wouldn't activate for two years at the earliest, though. A large contract doesn't really protect him or work for the team. If nothing else, an arbitrated $3.25M or so would have obliged his team to qualify him at that rate next summer. A player in Orlov's situation doesn't have that inherent security yet. It's on him to earn that. A side deal with LV to not select him is an option but it's on him to make himself that valuable. He's not there yet.

It's possible both sides could be waiting for D like Fowler, Shattenkirk and Trouba to move or stay put and Orlov's camp wants the flexibility to sign longer-term with a new team that arbitration would remove. But it's a bit of a gamble not filing, regardless of the KHL threat.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

It's all a gamble...

 

[SpinningEdge]

Yeah, Gandler was never Erat's agent. Johansson is also represented by JP Barry of CAA Sports, a much bigger outfit than Gandler.

It's a business. Orlov wanted to play and that's reasonable enough. The Caps have even said he'll get a shot to be in the top four next season so unless we hear reports of issues I don't think we need to jump to conclusions based on past history. They certainly could have gone to arbitration and probably done well enough that the Caps wouldn't have liked the result. That didn't happen and, aside from the likely pretty empty KHL threat, the leverage is on Washington's side.

He could still bolt to the KHL despite an arbitration ruling ala Sobotka so that's not it (although he would owe that season again should he return, etc.). But without any reports of this nature it's useless to speculate.

Yes Gandler worked with Deutsch on Erat. Deutsch was the name as the OFFICIAL agent - but Gandler was involved there too and worked on endorsements/etc with Erat. I saw after a game once all three (Erat/Deutsch/Gandler) all chatting with Erat.

Gandler did work w/ Erat. Not sure if he still does - but he was with Erat at some point when he was with the Capitals w/ the Deutsch guy. Maybe it was just for endorsements or who really knows else - but at some point Gandler and Erat were working together.

Again, I worked in the music industry and owned a tour called Scream It Like You Mean it and my agent for the tour/tour partner was from the Agency Group and I got to meet tons of people over the years at CAA/William Morris/etc from the bands I managed/record labels my bands were signed to/etc. Erat was for sure involved w/ Gandler at some point when he was here in Washington. Not sure exactly how - but Erat was in some way a client and I know that for a fact.

Who knows... maybe it's nothing and it was all McPhee and this is something completely different - but I just have a feeling and just an opinion. I don't know anything more than anyone else here - just from what I knew of like 3 years ago before I left the enterainment business completely.

Sounds like I'm the only one interested in these backstage type politics though so I won't keep bringing it up. I just think it's all interesting and no one really thinks of agents and teams front office relationships very much. People forget that GMGM had a lot of negative opinions with big agents.... so GMBM is probably not just working on putting together fair offers/etc - but also maybe trying to rebrand the Caps to agencies as well. Never really know what goes on.