A Serious Debate: How to fix this team?

[Blueline Bomber]

On a serious note, we're but a mere 10 games in and people are already throwing up their hands and screaming that the sky is falling? Good grief.

You know as well as I do that teams that aren't in a playoff position by Thanksgiving have, historically, not made the playoffs. In the second half of the season, teams play tighter, try and squeeze out those OT points. Makes climbing that much harder.

So while it's only 10 games in, we've got less time than it seems to turn it around.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

IIRC, I looked at it and it's something like 3 teams per season that aren't in a playoff spot by Thanksgiving (ignoring games in hand) end up making into the playoffs. So while it's not a huge number, it's probably not as rare when looking just at the bubble / 2nd tier teams.

Still, your point is valid that it's an uphill battle if you are too far out by Thanksgiving:

14/15 Canes were in 13th in the east by Thanksgiving and about 10 points out of a playoff spot.
15/16 Canes were in a 3 way tie for 11th by Thanksgiving and 5-6 points out of a playoff spot.
16/17 Canes were in a 2 way tie for 12th by Thanksgiving and 3-4 points out of a playoff spot.

 

[Roboturner913]

Could have something to do with it. Brindy likely taught them all the little tricks he learned over the years that made him such a machine in that regard.

somewhere, Shawn Horcoff cries gently into a hanky

 

[The Stranger]

This team isn’t very different from last year. We said over and over again average goaltending and they are a playoff team. It’s no different this year. Average goaltending = 2 more points in October and being on pace for 96 points. It’s not ****ing rocket science.

HCanes already have average goaltending with uber soldat and antiquated pumpkin...think you actually mean you want to see the team have a league average sv%.

 

[geehaad]

Oh boy...once more into the "what does 'average'/'elite'/'above average' mean?" debate again...

 

[The Stranger]

Once more into the fray...
Into the last good fight I'll ever know.
Live and die on this day...
Live and die on this day...

 

[ndp]

Physicality, overall scoring and fix the damn power play.

Our young guys get manhandled and our guys (Staal) that should be playing with more grit are soft. How many years did it take Skinner to learn how to avoid the big hit?
We have way too many skate down the wing, button-hook, get out muscled, thrown into the boards, loose the puck type players. 170# D Ryan needs to go, yesterday.
We need some grit to drive to the net. Lindholm has gotten better in this regard, how many seasons did it take him?
Hopefully GOAT, Roy, McLovin, Saarela and a heavier Wallmark will address this issue in the future.
Which brings me to my 2nd point, scoring. The above mentioned players might, maybe, eventually help in that regard, maybe. We need another 30g guy or 2.
If acquired through a trade I would like to see something done around Faulk. He doesn't seem to be the same since the high ankle sprain. I haven't given up on Hanifin yet the potential is still there to me. A big physical 30g center is what this team needs. Those are easy to get right?
Send Rod upstairs or something just fix the PP, it's bad.
I do remember a Francis interview at the start of the season where he said the goal was playoffs next year but that we could possibly be a year ahead of schedule. He had a 5 year plan, this is year 4.
If all else fails we could just kill them, kill them all.

 

[Roboturner913]

I just saw a replay of a Gauthier goal from the preseason against the Capitals that was shocking in terms of how physical and fast he was, and he roofed it top corner on the stick side like it was nothing, and I thought to myself, Wow, that's exactly what the Canes need right now. Like a young Erik Cole with actual shooting ability.

Obviously he was judged to not be ready for the NHL yet, but when he is, IMO he's the guy who's going to come in and be the big top-line presence we need. I hate using that word "patience" but realistically we may just need to wait another year or two until the rebuild starts to fully assert itself.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I just saw a replay of a Gauthier goal from the preseason against the Capitals that was shocking in terms of how physical and fast he was, and he roofed it top corner on the stick side like it was nothing, and I thought to myself, Wow, that's exactly what the Canes need right now. Like a young Erik Cole with actual shooting ability.

Obviously he was judged to not be ready for the NHL yet, but when he is, IMO he's the guy who's going to come in and be the big top-line presence we need. I hate using that word "patience" but realistically we may just need to wait another year or two until the rebuild starts to fully assert itself.

Yes, that’s exactly what they drafted him to be. He’s just not anywhere near ready yet. I haven’t seen him in Charlotte but the numbers indicate he’s been fairly irrelevant thus far.

I’d like to see Wallmark replace Ryan, if only for a game or two. Could he really be worse? Probably, but why not try?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I'll be a bit surprised if Peters takes Ryan out of the line-up as it just seems like Ryan is the one guy he won't sit for anything.

 

[sheriff bart]

I’d like to see Wallmark replace Ryan, if only for a game or two. Could he really be worse? Probably, but why not try?

Exactamundo

 

[Joe McGrath]

I'll be a bit surprised if Peters takes Ryan out of the line-up as it just seems like Ryan is the one guy he won't sit for anything.

He looks like Ryan Murphy playing center. About as productive as he would have been too.

 

[MinJaBen]

I just saw a replay of a Gauthier goal from the preseason against the Capitals that was shocking in terms of how physical and fast he was, and he roofed it top corner on the stick side like it was nothing, and I thought to myself, Wow, that's exactly what the Canes need right now. Like a young Erik Cole with actual shooting ability.

Obviously he was judged to not be ready for the NHL yet, but when he is, IMO he's the guy who's going to come in and be the big top-line presence we need. I hate using that word "patience" but realistically we may just need to wait another year or two until the rebuild starts to fully assert itself.

Yes, that’s exactly what they drafted him to be. He’s just not anywhere near ready yet. I haven’t seen him in Charlotte but the numbers indicate he’s been fairly irrelevant thus far.

I’d like to see Wallmark replace Ryan, if only for a game or two. Could he really be worse? Probably, but why not try?

Given he started the season as a healthy scratch, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for his jump to the NHL. He is boom/bust material for sure.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Given he started the season as a healthy scratch, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for his jump to the NHL. He is boom/bust material for sure.

They have a ton of forwards in Charlotte/ECHL and sometimes it's about sending a message. Haydn Fleury was a healthy scratch early last year as well. He's going to take time.

 

[Svechhammer]

The problem is the same problem we've always had. We don't have a legitimate 1st line of forwards. We don't have that first line of dominant scorers who you can send on the ice and expect something good to happen. We don't have a line where you can confidently put the puck on the stick of the best person on the ice at that moment and know something good will happen. We have 2 2nd lines, a good 3rd line, and a better than average 4th. And we wonder why our scoring continues to struggle and our power play sucks. Hell, we're trying to pass off Jordan Staal, a career defensive center as the #1 C on the team, and we wonder why we can't score.

You want the problem, there it is. How do we fix it? At this point, if you want success this year, you gotta trade for it. Sure, we could wait til next offseason, but that likely means missing the playoffs for a 9th straight year after what was sold to everyone as "oh, no, seriously, this really is the year."

At a certain point, sh- or get off the pot. Are we serious about ever competing again, and rebuilding this fanbase, or are we just in it for the long con, selling the fans on the playoffs early and not doing a damn thing to ensure that happens when the puck drops.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

f***ing JR. He treats draft choices like Chiclets and wouldn't know how to draft and develop to save his life. Always making the short term trades to try and improve the team at the cost of the long term.

f***ing Francis. Never makes a big trade to put this team over the top. Just wants to draft and develop. Make a move already.

 

[JCLA]

I think a lot of the latter there has to do with our insecurity about relocation and attendance

but i completely agree with what you're saying

 

[Svechhammer]

****ing JR. He treats draft choices like Chiclets and wouldn't know how to draft and develop to save his life. Always making the short term trades to try and improve the team at the cost of the long term.

****ing Francis. Never makes a big trade to put this team over the top. Just wants to draft and develop. Make a move already.

Yeah I know, its like, totally either one or the other. Someone who drafts to develop and also makes strategic moves at the right time could never, ever be a good GM. Its either one extreme or the other!

 

[JCLA]

Yeah I know, its like, totally either one or the other. Someone who drafts to develop and also makes strategic moves at the right time could never, ever be a good GM. Its either one extreme or the other!

I mean in order to get what we want we're going to have to make a short term move that affects the long term.

It's really hard to do both in the midst of a rebuild.

 

[Svechhammer]

I mean in order to get what we want we're going to have to make a short term move that affects the long term.

It's really hard to do both in the midst of a rebuild.

I would say any move you make has to be done with the consideration of it being a long term benefit. And I would say, at this point, a legitimate 1st liner on this team, especially a legitimate first line center, has more of a net long term positive to us than what would likely be a 2nd line defenseman going forward. (of course, all this assuming anyone we trade for would immediately sign long-term as a central aspect of the trade itself)

So if we can move someone like Hanifin and get that 1st liner, I'm all for it at this point. With Slavin and Pesce solidifying that top line for the forseeable future, and if the team really does have that much faith in Fleury this year and Bean next, if that deal can be made, make it happen sooner rather than later.

 

[JCLA]

I would say any move you make has to be done with the consideration of it being a long term benefit. And I would say, at this point, a legitimate 1st liner on this team, especially a legitimate first line center, has more of a net long term positive to us than what would likely be a 2nd line defenseman going forward. (of course, all this assuming anyone we trade for would immediately sign long-term as a central aspect of the trade itself)

So if we can move someone like Hanifin and get that 1st liner, I'm all for it at this point. With Slavin and Pesce solidifying that top line for the forseeable future, and if the team really does have that much faith in Fleury this year and Bean next, if that deal can be made, make it happen sooner rather than later.

If you see Hanifin as a second line defenseman than he is not going to get the 1C we need.

 

[GoldiFox]

I think a lot of the latter there has to do with our insecurity about relocation and attendance

but i completely agree with what you're saying

Giving away thousands of free tickets and diminishing the value to Season Ticket Holders does not make the team more or less likely to relocate. The same base of ~6-8k STH has existed for the past 5+ years.

Front page news of "Canes bring in Duchene!!! Finally a #1C!!" is not driving even one person into the arena. You may as well be talking about a Gleep-Gloops invading the Crab Nebula. The people of Raleigh don't know who Duchene or Turris or James Neal is and they won't care. There are a lot of reasons for that, a primary one for me is the piece of shit who owns the team who has invested just about zero dollars over the past 20 years to promote hockey in Raleigh.

The only thing that will drive attendance is winning. With that in mind, I think you can be fairly sure that Ron Francis is only making moves that he thinks will increase wins. If he thinks the team will do worse with a 1C at the cost of a current top-4 D, that trade ain't happening no matter how bad posters here want it.

 

[Svechhammer]

If you see Hanifin as a second line defenseman than he is not going to get the 1C we need.

Hanifin is a 2nd liner with us, and likely always will be with Slavin being in the way. With both being LHD, and Slavin already having the chemistry with Pesce, I don't really think there's a realistic chance for Hanifin to get himself on the 1st line, even if his game improves to that point. Its a nice luxury to have when you already have one of the league's best young d-men on the roster.

So that's where I am coming from when I say he's a 2nd liner for the Canes. Its not an insult, its not saying he can't be good, its that I just don't think he'll supplant Slavin. If you can move him for someone who is still enamored with his potential, you can center him in a deal for a legit 1st liner.

 

[geehaad]

If Hanifin reaches 93% of his ceiling, he will most definitely replace Slavin as the top-pairing LHD.

 

[MinJaBen]

If you see Hanifin as a second line defenseman than he is not going to get the 1C we need.

This is one of those statements that really drives me crazy. Not to call you out specifically, because I've seen this MANY other times on these boards, but why can't we see him one way and someone else see him another? Sure, if everybody sees him as a 2nd pairing defenseman, then that doesn't get it done. But if we (Canes) come to that conclusion about him due to our more intimate knowledge, but another team still sees him with 1st pairing potential, then he could pull in a 1C. Obviously, you have to find the right trading partner to make that happen, but it is possible.